82210 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

I want a personal and professional happy ending for her, ideally leading a reformed Cerberus with Shepard as the supportive boyfriend.

[UserForFun]

It's from this individual: patryk-garrett.deviantart.com/art/Mass-Effect-3-Miranda-193679655

Modifié par UserForFun, 10 janvier 2012 - 04:49 .

[AgitatedLemon]

jtav wrote...

I want a personal and professional happy ending for her, ideally leading a reformed Cerberus with Shepard as the supportive boyfriend.

You and...

Well...

A lot of people.

[flemm]

Rdubs wrote...

You guys see that this piece was features in (I think the UK version of) PlayStation Magazine?
http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream

*snip*

No, thanks for pointing that out.

I've lost track... is that the same magazine we were talking about earlier?

[Ryzaki]

jtav wrote...

I want a personal and professional happy ending for her, ideally leading a reformed Cerberus with Shepard as the supportive boyfriend.

I'm fine with just professional in my playthroughs. Leading Cerberus of course and being a friend and ally to some of my Sheps.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I wonder if that Miri Painting will become actually Concept Art for ME3.

[AgitatedLemon]

When I think of Miranda confronting her father, for some reason I think of this song.

Lily Allen is my new favorite person in the world.

[Vertigo_1]

flemm wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

You guys see that this piece was features in (I think the UK version of) PlayStation Magazine?
http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream

*snip*

No, thanks for pointing that out.

I've lost track... is that the same magazine we were talking about earlier?

No:

The day started with GameInformers 6 hour playthrough which got stickied over in General

Then there was that Q&A posted from GameMaster UK

And now there's this from Playstation Magazine (UK)

[Ieldra]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

flemm wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

That wasn't my point.

Were you suggesting humanity make more synth-humans? That's what I got from it, and that's the dumb part.

Let me ask you this: how can the process that produced Miranda be innately bad?

The same way I think the genophage was a bad idea.

The genophage and Miranda's genetic engineering are not at all comparable. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the process that created her is innately bad unless you see some special moral value in leaving the biological processes of human procreation untouched by technology. Needless to say, I do not subscribe to any such viewpoint.

I also disagree about the genophage, but that's besides the point. The genophage, while necessary, is ethically problematic. Miranda's creation, given that she has only enhancements that would be seen as desirable by anyone, is not at all problematic. Her father's motivations may be problematic, but at least as biology goes he's done what most parents would do: given their children the best starting position for their lives.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 janvier 2012 - 09:30 .

[atheelogos]

jtav wrote...

I want a personal and professional happy ending for her, ideally leading a reformed Cerberus with Shepard as the supportive boyfriend.

and kids.... Really that whole barren thing she has going on is hard for me to swallow. They need to fix that

[Ieldra]

atheelogos wrote...

jtav wrote...
I want a personal and professional happy ending for her, ideally leading a reformed Cerberus with Shepard as the supportive boyfriend.

and kids.... Really that whole barren thing she has going on is hard for me to swallow. They need to fix that

No children within the context of the game or its epilogues. Keep that to players' imagination.

[Ieldra]

android654 wrote...
Its the future, there is a huge possibility that we may have bypassed the, need for a uterus or any number of once essential body parts in order to reproduce.

Im A huge supporter of cloning and genetic engineering and both Shepard and Miranda are prime examples that its been mastered.

While it may seem taboo now, I think genetic manipulation will be the way we become better as a species. Not yo mention in this series, it gets us Miranda. Imagine a society of physically perfect people with an intellectual cadpacity you can't even begin to comprehend. The possibilities are truly endless, its a very pragmatic appropach to ridding the world of all of its ills.

While I am a supporter of those technologies as well, the viewpoint that it's a good approach to rid the world of its ills is, unfortunately, short-sighted. Being more intelligent and physically improved does not change your possible motivations, nor can genetic engineering ensure that people actually use their improved mental capacity. if you want to go in that direction, you'd need to adjust mental dispositions, and that would be - to take an example from the game - as ethically problematic as the control chip.

[Ieldra]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

Its the future, there is a huge possibility that we may have bypassed the, need for a uterus or any number of once essential body parts in order to reproduce.

Im A huge supporter of cloning and genetic engineering and both Shepard and Miranda are prime examples that its been mastered.

While it may seem taboo now, I think genetic manipulation will be the way we become better as a species. Not yo mention in this series, it gets us Miranda. Imagine a society of physically perfect people with an intellectual cadpacity you can't even begin to comprehend. The possibilities are truly endless, its a very pragmatic appropach to ridding the world of all of its ills.

While I have no qualms with genetic alteration post-birth, I strongly feel that the actual birthing should (For lack of better wordplay) be natural. Being physically unable to carry child, but still wanting to have a child I could understand, but doing it "for teh lulz" is wrong.

Why? Is there any special moral significance to a natural birth?

Besides, Miranda would most likely have had a natural birth, as far as the process itself goes. The most feasible way to create a genetic improved human is to implant a fertilized ovum created by technology in a surrogate mother. The only other alternative is an artificial uterus, and while that technology most likely exists in the ME universe, there is no inherent benefit to derive from using it, as far as genetic enhancements are concerned.   

In the case of Miranda, it's all because of her tyrannical father wanting to control a dynasty, so I won't really go into that. If in real life artificial births were to become Miranda-like (Minus her father's motivations), then I would vocally object to it.

You need to qualify that statement. What exactly are you objecting to, and on which grounds? You may have a strong intuition that a natural birth is preferable, but that's not enough to convince anyone if you can't back it up by arguments. 

[Ieldra]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
What I was ranting about earlier was the actual creation of human beings via synthesis.

Gene therapy to dissuade a disease or ailment is perfectly fine, but I see ethical/moral problems in actually creating living humans from tissue and chromosome samples, ala Miranda.

Miranda wasn't created that way. Only her genome was created that way. We can infer that from (a) the knowledge that Miranda had an actual childhood, ( that constructing humans Frankenstein-like isn't really a feasible way to create human life, because the growth process is too important to the end result, and © there wouldn't be any benefit to be derived from it. Miranda's enhancements are all in her genome, and once the zygote has been created, it would be easiest to use natural processes for the rest.

Apart from that, again: even if it was possible to construct synthetic human life - why exactly would you object to it?

[Ieldra]

Ryzaki wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Well there's the whole "Holding the human race back". Not once did I say or reference anything about holding humanity back.

And I wouldn't say Miranda exactly enjoys her modifications, unless having an incredibly low self esteem is a sign of happiness.

Okay then.

Actually I'd say her low self esteem is because of her father's abuse. It's very easy to break a young child's spirit and make them feel like dirt.

"You talk about yourself like you're just a... a tool, to be used by Cerberus, by your father."

"It helps me find purpose in how I was created"

And apparently the way her father treated her (and Cerberus) played no part in that? 

People don't develop in a vaccum. Your past experiences affect your adult outlook whether you like it or not. And being abused as a child (particularly emotionally) can and often times will stay with you the rest of your life and affect relationships and self outlook.

Exactly.

With a father who loved her, Miranda would still have some existential questions about herself. Being the first of your kind will do that to you. But I don't think she'd have the kind of self-esteem problems referred to in that conversation. Her upbringing is the reason why she answers that existential question by seeing herself as something of a tool. With a different upbringing, she'd have found a different answer. 

And if I may be excused for quoting this picture again. It's too beautiful...


@jtav:
Last I looked up, I could detect no flying pigs. But I hesitate to look again, lest I find this:

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 janvier 2012 - 10:30 .

[nitefyre410]

 some Miranda with my morning coffee  yes 

[flemm]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
No:

The day started with GameInformers 6 hour playthrough which got stickied over in General

Then there was that Q&A posted from GameMaster UK

And now there's this from Playstation Magazine (UK)

Thanks, Vertigo

Damn, the UK getting all the Miranda love, wtf?

Modifié par flemm, 10 janvier 2012 - 12:48 .

[JosephDucreux]

flemm wrote...
Thanks, Vertigo

Damn, the UK getting all the Miranda love, wtf?

Hey, at least there's some going around.

[GarethJShep]

yes indeed

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

I want a personal and professional happy ending for her, ideally leading a reformed Cerberus with Shepard as the supportive boyfriend.

Care to elaborate more on Shepard's role? The way you left it makes him seem like a kept man. Comparison: If I were to reverse your statement, something along the lines of "Shepard leading a better council with Miranda as the supportive girlfriend" I'd have this thread at my throat before I could even refresh the page.

[flemm]

Well, the Shadow Broker dossier makes sense to me for the first time. More thoughts soon in the spoiler group.

I think it was definitely intended to foreshadow events in ME3, but it did so in a way that was totally incomprehensible if you didn't know the direction the story was going to take. Mostly related to stuff we've been talking about here, but I think we can probably piece together a few more details now.

[jtav]

That's more or less what I meant, if you can call "brilliant artistic genius finally embracing his talents" a kept man. Matt's reward is retirement because he never wanted that life. I think it's very difficult, but not impossible to RP a politically-minded Shepard.

[CrutchCricket]

Nope sorry, still getting that vibe. I realize it's your Shepard and you can do as you see fit but I must confess I'm not a fan. Just keep reversing the situation, with Shepard as the influential leader and Miranda as the "retired artist". If you do and find the arrangement acceptable I have no further argument. But something tells me you wouldn't.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 10 janvier 2012 - 03:29 .

[Berg]

CrutchCricket wrote...


Care to elaborate more on Shepard's role? The way you left it makes him seem like a kept man. Comparison: If I were to reverse your statement, something along the lines of "Shepard leading a better council with Miranda as the supportive girlfriend" I'd have this thread at my throat before I could even refresh the page.

Probably because Shepard is something of a blank canvas, so people do not worry too much how people portray him/her in their own game. But Miranda is Miranda. I could not imagine her being a supporting girlfriend in anyones game.

[CrutchCricket]

oh brother wrote...

Probably because Shepard is something of a blank canvas, so people do not worry too much how people portray him/her in their own game. But Miranda is Miranda. I could not imagine her being a supporting girlfriend in anyones game.

Doesn't matter. This isn't the game we're talking about, this is after. Any portrayal, whether a blank slate or a continuation of a "sort of full" one still conveys certain messages.