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[javierabegazo]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Sorry to go off topic, AND for posting it twice, but which is better off for MaleSheps? Default? Custom?

I ALWAYS find something wrong with it. I have to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, then back and forth again to fix it, and still no promising results for my taste.

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101,  I know Mass Effect is obviously important to you and you're a very active user but you need to not spam the thread with questions just because someone doesn't answer you post immediately. have a little patience. Bombarding a thread with the same post is spam. We don't like spam. Well, I guess the hammer does, but it's a little blood thirsty

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

sorry:(

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 26 juin 2011 - 08:35 .

[Ieldra]

Who else except for me doesn't want Oriana to figure prominently in Miranda's story arc in ME3? We already had that, we don't need it again, and I'd very much prefer that Miranda's story arc is connected to the main plot. As I think it will be.

[Melra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Who else except for me doesn't want Oriana to figure prominently in Miranda's story arc in ME3? We already had that, we don't need it again, and I'd very much prefer that Miranda's story arc is connected to the main plot. As I think it will be.

Me.

Mhm, well Miri and Kaidan don't really start on good terms. I wouldn't be surprised, if he'd think Miranda was manipulating Shepard, if she lives in ME3 or is his LI.

[TheMarshal]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Who else except for me doesn't want Oriana to figure prominently in Miranda's story arc in ME3? We already had that, we don't need it again, and I'd very much prefer that Miranda's story arc is connected to the main plot. As I think it will be.

I'm with you on that one.  I like personal connections being relevant in a world that tries to focus on the 'big picture', since it humanizes the issue more, but find something new to bring it back to the personal level, please!

[Melra]

Well it's pretty safe to think, it's something Cerberus related. Her knowledge being used to bring it down or something similar. I just hope it has something nice to spice it up.

[Errol Dnamyx]

Melrache wrote...
Me.

Mhm, well Miri and Kaidan don't really start on good terms. I wouldn't be surprised, if he'd think Miranda was manipulating Shepard, if she lives in ME3 or is his LI.

Yus. The VS might think, that Shepard somehow feels obligated to take her side, because Miranda "brought him back".

[LuxDragon]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Sorry to go off topic, AND for posting it twice, but which is better off for MaleSheps? Default? Custom?

I ALWAYS find something wrong with it. I have to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, then back and forth again to fix it, and still no promising results for my taste.

Not the place for this. There are character creation threads that can answer that better than us.

Now to get back on topic: I need help with Miranda's viewpoint with Cerberus. What do you guys think her thoughts are on the topic?

[outmane]

Melrache wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Who else except for me doesn't want Oriana to figure prominently in Miranda's story arc in ME3? We already had that, we don't need it again, and I'd very much prefer that Miranda's story arc is connected to the main plot. As I think it will be.

Me.

that is something i fully agree on. I believe Miranda is keeping a good eye on her and if/when Shep asks her about her Oriana, Miri will answer that everyting is under control and she dealed with her safety issues already (be it from Cerb or Reapers or Papa Lawson). That would show how she can handle things herself and how she is ready for the Reaper's showdown. Sounds in character to me.

[jtav]

That's a broad question. Can you clarify?

[Melra]

You mean before SM or after? In ME2 or ME3, after the betrayal?

[Vertigo_1]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Who else except for me doesn't want Oriana to figure prominently in Miranda's story arc in ME3? We already had that, we don't need it again, and I'd very much prefer that Miranda's story arc is connected to the main plot. As I think it will be.

I as well. Rather have her character grow in ME3.  The quote earlier about Cerberus being 40% of the game makes me super hopeful that she will be more prominent in the story.

[alperez]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Who else except for me doesn't want Oriana to figure prominently in Miranda's story arc in ME3? We already had that, we don't need it again, and I'd very much prefer that Miranda's story arc is connected to the main plot. As I think it will be.

It depends on what you mean by prominently? I don't think Miranda's arc should be completely abour Oriana, but it still think there needs to be more resolution to that part of the arc also.

Personally i can see them bringing all 3 aspects of Miranda's arc into the same thing, her father, Oriana and Cerberus, simply because it allows each of these to be resolved. The problem could be that in doing it that way it doesn't allow time for each to be resolved properly or by not allocating more time to it, they all seem rushed.

Another way of putting it would be which part of Miranda's arc do you think they'll focus more on her character or her story importance?

For me her character Arc has to include her father and by default Oriana, where her story has to revolve around Cerberus, they could finish one easily with a reapers killed her father and she got Oriana out somehow and she's as safe as she can be (in the midst of a reaper invasion) allowing them to focus on the cerberus angle but for me something like this would annoy the hell out of me.

[Repearized Miranda]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...
But does she need to give a reason for having done it? I didn't expect a "I know what you're up to," however, people do ask: "Why the change of heart," in which they may or not give a explanation for nor do they have to. It would have been worse if Miranda read TIM the riot act if you think about it. She has her reasons. People do say that and leave it alone! Just like TIM doesn't need to explain his motives to any and everybody nor does he. That's not bad writing. It's only bad because fans think they need to be spoon-fed everything. (I will not get into that)

I still think her resignation is pandering to Paragon players who wanted Miranda as their LI. They would have complained if their protagonists and their LIs end up in different factions in the end. The best piece of evidence I can offer is that the scene only happens if you take Miranda to the final boss. If you destroy the base and don't take Miranda there, she doesn't resign. The majority of all players will never see her resigning. That's why I think her resignation will be of little to no importance in ME3.

*GUILTY* 

Seriously, I do agree with you though, but I still stand by what I said. There's no need for any reasoning since the players can reason it out for themselves. Obviously, if you're (Miranda) of the diplomatic view, you'll more than likely to give your reasons, but diplomats don't always do that nor should you assume that Pragmatic Miranda wouldn't give her reasons because she might. She didn't as it was clear she saw what TIM was up to, but didn't need to tell the entire galaxy, let alone TIM, himself. If whatever she found was enough to get her to walk, great, but nit everybidy needs ti know that.

As for your first statement, the reverse could be true. TIM "begging" Shepard was to appease the Renegades and they can have LIs as well.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

LuxDragon wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Sorry to go off topic, AND for posting it twice, but which is better off for MaleSheps? Default? Custom?

I ALWAYS find something wrong with it. I have to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, then back and forth again to fix it, and still no promising results for my taste.

Not the place for this. There are character creation threads that can answer that better than us.

Now to get back on topic: I need help with Miranda's viewpoint with Cerberus. What do you guys think her thoughts are on the topic?

[outmane]

I know you guys know Miri very well so id like to know how she would interact with a Shepard she isnt fond of. One who would see her as a rival and/or lost her loyalty in ME2.

This isnt a hate post (just making sure after reading some of the earlier posts today). Im just interested in what role she might play for my antiCerberus Shep. Could she really be an antigonist? Or maybe jsut an independant rival ? Would she act as the better woman and work with Shep anyhow? Could she betray him/her if she thinks she has better chances to save humanity (maybe keep a valuable artifact/weapon or something cause she think Shep wont be bold enough to use it)?

[Rawke]

LuxDragon wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Sorry to go off topic, AND for posting it twice, but which is better off for MaleSheps? Default? Custom?

I ALWAYS find something wrong with it. I have to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, then back and forth again to fix it, and still no promising results for my taste.

Not the place for this. There are character creation threads that can answer that better than us.

Now to get back on topic: I need help with Miranda's viewpoint with Cerberus. What do you guys think her thoughts are on the topic?

I believe that she is loyal to her own goals and motives that happen to be roughly the same as Cerberus' goals (or what TIM tells people his goals are). The minute Cerberus puts her in a position where she either has to disobey or corss a line she doesn't want to cross/betrays what Cerberus is supposed to stand for, she will disobey. Which is why I take her quitting during the SM seriously and NOT as a snap decision.

Her personality is strong enough that she doesn't need TIM or Cerberus backing her beliefs. Once again, I can only say what I've said a few times in this thread and others - she believes in what Cerberus stands for. She also criticises decisions at certain points. She remains loyal to TIM and the organisation because she blieves they have the same goals she has. However, unlike TIM, she doesn't want to push them at all costs. What seperates her from TIM (they are similar in their result-oriented method and the fact that they are ready to make hard decisions) is the fact that she actually has a line she won't cross, whereas TIM is probably ready to sacrifice her and every other Cerberus operative to achieve his ultimate goal.

In short, she's rather pragmatic. Cerberus wants what she wants, so she works for them. They provide her with opportunity and resources. That changes dramatically during the SM (assuming you take her with you). TIM crosses a line she is not ready to cross. I also assume she didn't expect TIM to sacrifice her as easily as anybody else, because she had sort of a "right hand" position in the organisation. At that moment, having to choose between Shepard (who seeks to destroy an imminent thread to humanity and the galaxy) and Cerberus is rather easy.

This isnt a hate post (just making sure after reading some of the
earlier posts today). Im just interested in what role she might play for
my antiCerberus Shep. Could she really be an antigonist? Or maybe jsut
an independant rival ? Would she act as the better woman and work with
Shep anyhow? Could she betray him/her if she thinks she has better
chances to save humanity (maybe keep a valuable artifact/weapon or
something cause she think Shep wont be bold enough to use it)?

You get more than enough examples for these situations in ME2. Most of the time it's her who doesn't want to risk something (e.g. waking Grunt/Legion). In the end, during the SM, she expresses disagreement when TIM wants to keep the base, and afterwards isn't sure whether it was the right decision to keep it. If you blow the base to hell, she agrees with you. To me it seems like she was looking at Shepard for confirmation of something she already knew - Cerberus crossed one too many lines.

Modifié par Rawke, 26 juin 2011 - 09:17 .

[Caihn]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

But does she need to give a reason for having done it? I didn't expect a "I know what you're up to," however, people do ask: "Why the change of heart," in which they may or not give a explanation for nor do they have to. It would have been worse if Miranda read TIM the riot act if you think about it. She has her reasons. People do say that and leave it alone! Just like TIM doesn't need to explain his motives to any and everybody nor does he. That's not bad writing. It's only bad because fans think they need to be spoon-fed everything. (I will not get into that)

I agree.

And I would have been very disapointed if she has express her doubts to Shepard before the SM. Before that, she's still a professional high rank operative working for Cerberus, the fact that she has doubts about TIM's motivations is not Shepard's business.
And to me the fact that the resignation scene is shown only if you bring her with you and decide to destroy the base is perfectly understandable : she has no choice to resign because she has to make a choice. She has no reasons to do this if TIM doesn't order her to stop you.
Maybe a scene after the SM could have been made to tell every players that she's not with Cerberus anymore ... but I still think it's not Shepard's business.

Modifié par Yannkee, 26 juin 2011 - 09:16 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Does anyone think that there were hints throughout the game that *possibly* started to change Miri's thoughts about Cerberus?

I apologize if this question is "simplistic." 

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 26 juin 2011 - 09:20 .

[MisterJB]

outmane wrote...

I know you guys know Miri very well so id like to know how she would interact with a Shepard she isnt fond of. One who would see her as a rival and/or lost her loyalty in ME2.

This isnt a hate post (just making sure after reading some of the earlier posts today). Im just interested in what role she might play for my antiCerberus Shep. Could she really be an antigonist? Or maybe jsut an independant rival ? Would she act as the better woman and work with Shep anyhow? Could she betray him/her if she thinks she has better chances to save humanity (maybe keep a valuable artifact/weapon or something cause she think Shep wont be bold enough to use it)?

First of all, the only way to use her loyalty is by siding with Jack and I think there's a big difference between a Shepard who is AntiCerberus and a Shepard who sided with Jack.
Miranda has great amounts of respect for Shepard and comes to accept his leadership. So, IMO, what Miranda would do is try to show Shepard that Cerberus is not his enemy. They are on the same side, just have different methods.

This, ofc, differs greatly from what happens if Shepard looses her loyalty. If so, Miranda feels hurt, betrayed. Even so, she would set her personal feelings aside and focus on the mission.

And I think Miranda is more cautious than bold. For example, Grunt or Legion.

[Ieldra]

LuxDragon wrote...
Now to get back on topic: I need help with Miranda's viewpoint with Cerberus. What do you guys think her thoughts are on the topic?

For this, recall that as late as the second romance scene (the one with the kiss), she praises Cerberus with no misgiving whatsoever.

I don' tthink her views on the subject change a lot from there to the end of ME2. At the very least, she still supports their goals of advancing humanity. The dubious circumstances of her resignation unfortunately don't shed a lot of light on it. Her experiences with a Shepard who isn't a complete Renegade might have shown her that Cerberus' brand of ruthlessness is often not as necessary as she might have believed before, but in principle she still believes in doing everything to get the job done. She might also have lost some illusions about how far TIM would actually go, but there is no evidence for such a thing in the game. 

Here are two possible viewpoints for her after-the-SM views:
(1) She still believes in Cerberus' goals, but does not believe any more that TIM is the best man to achieve them.
(2) She still believes in Cerberus and TIM.

[alperez]

outmane wrote...

I know you guys know Miri very well so id like to know how she would interact with a Shepard she isnt fond of. One who would see her as a rival and/or lost her loyalty in ME2.

This isnt a hate post (just making sure after reading some of the earlier posts today). Im just interested in what role she might play for my antiCerberus Shep. Could she really be an antigonist? Or maybe jsut an independant rival ? Would she act as the better woman and work with Shep anyhow? Could she betray him/her if she thinks she has better chances to save humanity (maybe keep a valuable artifact/weapon or something cause she think Shep wont be bold enough to use it)?

I wonder if they'll just gloss over this somehow, it'd be interesting if there were direct consequences for the things you say but for some reason i just get the impression they'll create a sceanario where apart from dialogue things will play out pretty much the same for all of us.

For example, you lose her loyalty but she survives, you don't take her to the end mission so she doesn't resign, Shepard wasn't exactly friendly with her in me2, then what you get would be the same as someone who did the reverse but just dialogue would change so it made it seem like it was different.

Miranda still resigns from cerberus post Sm, just she says something like i don't work with them now rather than you already knowing it, you didn't have her loyalty or were friendly with her then rather than be antagonistic instead certain conversational options aren't available and you get a more proffessional attitude rather than friendly or romantically.

Maybe the only real difference would be that because you played it a certain way it eliminated all chance of Miranda being a full squadmate for you wheras someone who played it the opposite it opens up that possibility.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

comment deleted

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 26 juin 2011 - 09:40 .

[Ieldra]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Does anyone think that there were hints throughout the game that *possibly* started to change Miri's thoughts about Cerberus?

There were things you might interpret as hints. But they are all in situational dialogue. There is no hard evidence she ever changes her views about Cerberus. Even her resignation is not decisive for that, since it might as well have been a pragmatic decision for her survival. Here are the possible "hints".

(1) Her reaction to Pragia. Counterclaim: she denounces this as a rogue cell.
(2) Her reaction to TIM's actions around the Collector Ship mission. She appears to get some doubts about him, but you only get that line if you say "he betrayed us".

Edit:
Would you PLEASE stop posting reminders of your posts after as little as 7 minutes! Man, some questions aren't answered for hours and nobody complains about it. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 juin 2011 - 09:27 .

[Vertigo_1]

Ieldra2 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Does anyone think that there were hints throughout the game that *possibly* started to change Miri's thoughts about Cerberus?

There were things you might interpret as hints. But they are all in situational dialogue. There is no hard evidence she ever changes her views about Cerberus. Even her resignation is not decisive for that, since it might as well have been a pragmatic decision for her survival. Here are the possible "hints".

(1) Her reaction to Pragia. Counterclaim: she denounces this as a rogue cell.
(2) Her reaction to TIM's actions around the Collector Ship mission. She appears to get some doubts about him, but you only get that line if you say "he betrayed us".

What about Horizon?
Fight with Jack?

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 26 juin 2011 - 09:29 .