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[alperez]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Does anyone think that there were hints throughout the game that *possibly* started to change Miri's thoughts about Cerberus?

I apologize if this question is "simplistic." 

I do but its a read between the lines thing and it could very well be my own view clouding my judgement.

I always got the impression in my playthrough that over the course of me2 and working with Shepard, Miranda was changing personally and in what she believed in regarding Cereberus and that by the end of the me2 she held different beliefs. Not everyone shares this view though which is fine, but to me it was similar to Ash in me1 (not as blatant perhaps) but similar or thats how i perceived it.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Ieldra2 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Does anyone think that there were hints throughout the game that *possibly* started to change Miri's thoughts about Cerberus?

There were things you might interpret as hints. But they are all in situational dialogue. There is no hard evidence she ever changes her views about Cerberus. Even her resignation is not decisive for that, since it might as well have been a pragmatic decision for her survival. Here are the possible "hints".

(1) Her reaction to Pragia. Counterclaim: she denounces this as a rogue cell.
(2) Her reaction to TIM's actions around the Collector Ship mission. She appears to get some doubts about him, but you only get that line if you say "he betrayed us".

My thoughts exactly about Pragia.

But I haven't said "He Betrayed us" before. What does Miri actually say?

[enayasoul]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

But I want EVERYTHING to be perfect the first time.

****, It's bad enough I've been trying to create a story for SIX WHOLE YEARS now.

Never try to be perfect on the first run-through; this is what drafts are for.  The only thing that you'll get by being a perfectionist is a lot of frustration and writer's block.

This is how the writing process became easy for me:
1) Outline general ideas for chapter
2) Write the whole chapter down without fixing anything.  Just get the ideas down on paper
3) Take a five minute break.
4) Re-read chapter, fixing grammatical errors and whatever else needs work.
5) Take another break, though this time for a day.
6) Re-read again, and edit again.

Drafting is one of the most important things you can do, and it all stems from resisting the urge to be a perfectionist right from the start.

very good advice... I write down ideas I have all the time.  I take a note book to work with me and jot down notes on lunch, at home, or quotes I like from tv shows or from books/articles I've read.  Anything you see, read or hear or observe from people/nature whatever is rich with ideas for a story.  

The majority of my time I spend researching topics on the internet...  Researching topics... they can be from relationship topics... behavioral topics, men, woman, medical stuff(boy this is a big one since I had to make Mordin or even Miranda seem like a "doctor" in a medical sense... but not really technical... believable *hopefully* ) I was reading biology you name it!  And **** loads of infertility treatments... Just to figure out what can be done... even about biotics, ezzo... anything that would be interesting to talk about.  past missions. 

And I do all this for fun... the joy of writing or entertainment until i can since my teeth into me3!  I've been shy about posting anything because it's personal and close to something I love.  I've been sharing parts of the story  with another mass effect fan(21 chapters so far...)  He's liking what he's read so far.  cool ideas.  He's becoming a Miranda fan...I think.   he's big on Tali but enjoys what I've written. 

So yeah... write whatever comes out.  Doesn't matter if it's good or bad.  That's what re-writes are for. I have completely changed several scenes ideas that in a sense flowed even better.  Totally re-vamp the story from the original thought.  Into lots of parts... chapters relate to each other.

anyways... just my two cents what I do when I write...

[Ieldra]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
What about Horizon?

?? No idea what you're talking about.

[Rawke]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Does anyone think that there were hints throughout the game that *possibly* started to change Miri's thoughts about Cerberus?

There were things you might interpret as hints. But they are all in situational dialogue. There is no hard evidence she ever changes her views about Cerberus. Even her resignation is not decisive for that, since it might as well have been a pragmatic decision for her survival. Here are the possible "hints".

(1) Her reaction to Pragia. Counterclaim: she denounces this as a rogue cell.
(2) Her reaction to TIM's actions around the Collector Ship mission. She appears to get some doubts about him, but you only get that line if you say "he betrayed us".

My thoughts exactly about Pragia.

But I haven't said "He Betrayed us" before. What does Miri actually say?

I can't recall the exact line right now (shame on me), but it's
something along the lines of "Maybe...no, he wouldn't do this to us".

[Ieldra]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
But I haven't said "He Betrayed us" before. What does Miri actually say?

She says "The Illusive Man wouldn't do that", but from her tone it is clear she's not completely convinced of it.

[Vertigo_1]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...
What about Horizon?

?? No idea what you're talking about.

TIM orchestrated the Collectors coming to Horizon.  Just like he knew sending Shepard to the Collector ship would be a trap.

I'm just wondering if/what Miranda would say to his explanation of Horizon.

I also think the seed of doubt would be planted at this point.  Even though she has no lines on it.

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 26 juin 2011 - 09:35 .

[Caihn]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

But I haven't said "He Betrayed us" before. What does Miri actually say?

this :

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Ieldra2 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
But I haven't said "He Betrayed us" before. What does Miri actually say?

She says "The Illusive Man wouldn't do that", but from her tone it is clear she's not completely convinced of it.

By the way it looks, She may have had doubts about The Illusive Man. 

[Repearized Miranda]

Yannkee wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

But does she need to give a reason for having done it? I didn't expect a "I know what you're up to," however, people do ask: "Why the change of heart," in which they may or not give a explanation for nor do they have to. It would have been worse if Miranda read TIM the riot act if you think about it. She has her reasons. People do say that and leave it alone! Just like TIM doesn't need to explain his motives to any and everybody nor does he. That's not bad writing. It's only bad because fans think they need to be spoon-fed everything. (I will not get into that)

I agree.

And I would have been very disapointed if she has express her doubts to Shepard before the SM. Before that, she's still a professional high rank operative working for Cerberus, the fact that she has doubts about TIM's motivations is not Shepard's business.
And to me the fact that the resignation scene is shown only if you bring her with you and decide to destroy the base is perfectly understandable : she has no choice to resign because she has to make a choice. She has no reasons to do this if TIM doesn't order her to stop you.
Maybe a scene after the SM could have been made to tell every players that she's not with Cerberus anymore ... but I still think it's not Shepard's business.

And it's not, but when Shepard got hosed by everybody for being with Cerberus, apparently, it WAS their business! Shep didn't have to explain his reasons as much as Miranda didn't. Ironically, nobody asked her to nor should they because it is not their business. (Players would like to know, but it's not our business either)

[outmane]

I hope ther will be some ME3 consequences to not having Miri's loyalty (any character's loyalty really) but i guess it might be much to ask since they have to fit it all in the same format.

Miri is one of the few squaddies with real rivalry/antagonistic potential (an other one would be Zaeed). For example, lets say i decide to side with the Geths and tell the Quariands to keep their hands off them. What could/would Tali do? Probably not much other then leave or stay and be unhappy. Miranda has the ability/ressources and the personality to do things her own way if she believes you cant make it happen. Id like if it would show.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Yannkee wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

But I haven't said "He Betrayed us" before. What does Miri actually say?

this :

Hmmmmm. I can actually tell by the tone of her voice, there must have been a sense of denial or doubt, no?

Oh and I LOVE the Avatar Yann.<3<3<3<3^_^

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 26 juin 2011 - 09:35 .

[alperez]

outmane wrote...

I hope ther will be some ME3 consequences to not having Miri's loyalty (any character's loyalty really) but i guess it might be much to ask since they have to fit it all in the same format.

Miri is one of the few squaddies with real rivalry/antagonistic potential (an other one would be Zaeed). For example, lets say i decide to side with the Geths and tell the Quariands to keep their hands off them. What could/would Tali do? Probably not much other then leave or stay and be unhappy. Miranda has the ability/ressources and the personality to do things her own way if she believes you cant make it happen. Id like if it would show.

I;d love it if they went into that level of depth regarding choices you made with squadmembers, i just doubt they will. Imo it'll be more a leave/not help further situation although with some it might be a bit deeper than others. For example a dead Tali or legion might mean you can only get one or the other on your side wheras a live loyal tali/legion might mean you get both something like that.

With Miranda, either way you play it Cerberus look like they're out to get you so it makes it a little different imo.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

What about Horizon?
Fight with Jack?

A fight? On Horizon?

[Ieldra]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...
What about Horizon?

?? No idea what you're talking about.

TIM orchestrated the Collectors coming to Horizon.  Just like he knew sending Shepard to the Collector ship would be a trap.

I'm just wondering if/what Miranda would say to his explanation of Horizon.

I also think the seed of doubt would be planted at this point.  Even though she has no lines on it.

If so, then she hides it well in the second romance conversation. I'm not convinced.
Has anyone got a vid of the Horizon debriefing? I don't recall if I bought TIM's explanation or not, and I don't want to replay that battle.

Edit:
In the fight with Jack, she says "It wasn't Cerberus. Not really", but that, too, sounds a little as if she's trying to convince herself. And that, too, is countered by the romance conversation which often comes later than the conflict with Jack.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 juin 2011 - 09:47 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

If Miri hid her doubts at first, why?

[Melra]

Horizon Debriefing

Modifié par Melrache, 26 juin 2011 - 09:48 .

[Ieldra]

Melrache wrote...
Horizon Debriefing

Thanks. I buy his explanation. I think Miranda would have reluctantly agreed. No problem with Cerberus loyalty here.

@101: We don't know. It's all speculation anyway.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 juin 2011 - 09:51 .

[alperez]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

If Miri hid her doubts at first, why?

Well 2 reasons, 1. she only began to doubt after working with Shepard, 2. Tim don't handle doubts well lol.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Melrache wrote...
Horizon Debriefing

Thanks. I buy his explanation. I think Miranda would have reluctantly agreed. No problem with Cerberus loyalty here.

@101: We don't know. It's all speculation anyway.

IF she was hiding doubts, she may have been concerned about how it would affect the mission....?
hmmmmm

Or perhaps fear of being thought of as a traitor?

....tbh....I'm not sure...I don't know if any of you would understand this or not. 

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 26 juin 2011 - 09:59 .

[Vertigo_1]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Melrache wrote...
Horizon Debriefing

Thanks. I buy his explanation. I think Miranda would have reluctantly agreed. No problem with Cerberus loyalty here.

Yeah this is how I feel too.  The Collector ship and Horizon were both risks TIM took to get information that's why I mentioned it.

For the most part I RP that the seeds of doubt were planted after Horizon. Sprouted during the Collector Ship and were fully grown when she resigned.

I'm also playing Plants vs Zombies right now so sorry about the plant analogy...

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 26 juin 2011 - 10:03 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

For me, Miri resigns. Before the events of ME3, would she have felt regret, in a sense, or is she indeed greatful for leaving?

Is it just a matter of preference?

No matter what, she always resigns for me.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 26 juin 2011 - 10:04 .

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Thanks. I buy his explanation. I think Miranda would have reluctantly agreed. No problem with Cerberus loyalty here.

The Illusive Man risked an entire colony just to prove his theory that the Collectors were interested in Shepard. His actions led to the abduction of thousands of people.
The Collector Cruiser was a calculated risk, everyone on Shepard's crew knew the dangers when they signed in.
But Horizon shows a blatant disregard for the lifes of the civilians.  Instead of setting an actual trap, TIM just sent Shepard there to serve as damage control.

[Melra]

MisterJB wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Thanks. I buy his explanation. I think Miranda would have reluctantly agreed. No problem with Cerberus loyalty here.

The Illusive Man risked an entire colony just to prove his theory that the Collectors were interested in Shepard. His actions led to the abduction of thousands of people.
The Collector Cruiser was a calculated risk, everyone on Shepard's crew knew the dangers when they signed in.
But Horizon shows a blatant disregard for the lifes of the civilians.  Instead of setting an actual trap, TIM just sent Shepard there to serve as damage control.

He couldn't have done much. Alliance couldn't have been drawn there in larger number, else the war with Terminus systems would've broken out. Same goes for other council races, also if he hadn't done it, larger colony may have been abducted.  There were colonies constantly vanishing, while you were going on in the game.

That was the only way to at least try and affect on where they'd go next. There always has to be some sort of sacrifice to get back into the game, that you're currently losing.

[13commander]

maybe her resignation is affected also by your realtionship with her.

In ME3 if she is a LI then she will follow you without doubt, if you were/are friendly with her she will have some doubts about her resignation (but still be there) and if you were a complete ***hole (i am saying in regard of doing her loyalty mission) she will return to Cerberus regreting ger decision to resign.

This is just my honest opinion.

Modifié par 13commander, 26 juin 2011 - 10:10 .