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[AgitatedLemon]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

And I don't like Cerberus's Experiments.

Was Cerberus ALWAYS like that? TIM founded Cerberus right?

What is Miri's view on Cerberus? In other words, what is Miri's Cerberus, her vision of Cerberus? What would Cerberus be if she were in Charge? Surely not horrid experiments.

Cerberus was founded under the philosophy of advancing humanity -- at ANY cost, wheter it's amoral experiments or acts of terrorism.


I remember reading the the codex (Or was it the SB dossier?) that Cerberus is made up of 15 cells, manned by a dozen people. The cells are independant of one another, and have no knowledge of the others' actions (So as to not compromise security). Miranda headed the Lazarus cell, which, to my knowledge, hasn't done anything significant, aside from rezzing Shepard.

I'd wager money that Miranda had no knowledge of Teltin, Noveria, etc. edit: and Akuze.

If she were to head Cerberus, I'd imagine it be similar to a "human STG", like many others have said.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:18 .

[MisterJB]

Cerberus had nothing to do with what happened on Noveria. They just bought some Rachni and Miranda was aware of this. She defends this decision.

[Dr. Doctor]

MisterJB wrote...
"Semantics. Either way, the geth are no longer a problem. However, Legion's geth might still become a problem. It might be safer to simply destroy them."

Miranda always errs on the side of caution.

And this is why she's a good XO for Shepard and his more...enthusiastic style of doing things.

[schemata]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Well, I said my opinion wasn't that well grounded. If you could apply human-like morality to the situation then I'd destroy them, too, because most people would rather be dead than reprogrammed to have their deepest beliefs reversed.

I wonder what Miranda would make of the situation. On that, too, I have no particularly convincing reasoning.

And yeah, I hope we won't get railroaded into anything that makes this decision irrelevant. Though its impact will be very limited I think.

Youd rather destroy them and wipe them from existence then change their beliefs? Why?

[Swaggacide]

This may be an **** thing to say but I'm so looking forward to see how Ashley reacts when we run into Miranda.

[AgitatedLemon]

MisterJB wrote...

Cerberus had nothing to do with what happened on Noveria. They just bought some Rachni and Miranda was aware of this. She defends this decision.

They unleashed rachni onto 2 listening posts.

[jtav]

And the leak makes it absolutely necessary for her to have considerable knowledge of other cells as well. I imagine she is quite capable of the horrific, should the situation call for it. What she is not capable of is the callous stupidity of something like Teltin.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

But What us Miri's own vision of Cerberus? I hope it's nothing like TIM's, with constant experiments like thresher maws and putting Element Zero in women who are with child.

I hope it's just the advancement and support of Humanity, without experiments and other thing.

Miri isn't Racist either.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:17 .

[MisterJB]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
They unleashed rachni onto 2 listening posts.

Cerberus understimated the rachni. They had planned to test their combat eficiency on pirates but the rachni escaped and attacked those listening posts out of their own volition.

[AgitatedLemon]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

But What us Miri's own vision of Cerberus? I hope it's nothing like TIM's, with constant experiments like thresher maws and putting Element Zero in women who are with child.

I hope it's just the advancement and support of Humanity, without experiments and other thing.

Miri isn't Racist either.

I can see it still being somewhat ruthless, but not on TIM's level.

And who said she was racist?

[naledgeborn]

schemata wrote...

Youd rather destroy them and wipe them from existence then change their beliefs? Why?

Using conventional morality as a basis for my argument... Would you rather die fighting for something you believed in or be brainwashed into becoming your enemy's allies?

I know, Geth are software and our morals don't apply to them... but strictly speaking from a "Paragon" perspective this is another choice that should have been flipped around on the Paragon/Renegade scale.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I'm just saying that she Isn't. A lot of people in Cerberus do not like aliens. But she does, thankfully.

I doubt it would be ruthless. Miri would work to make a Cerberus better than it's predecessor, and a more respected Cerberus.

[jtav]

Miranda's vision of Cerberus? The advancement of humanity yes. That was TIM's vision as well. The trouble is that he had a habit of disregarding actual humans even when it wasn't necessary to achieve his goals. Too much of Cerberus was cruelty for cruelty's sake. I expect a more moral Cerberus from her, where murder, torture, and the like are the instruments of last resort rather than first resort.

[AgitatedLemon]

naledgeborn wrote...

schemata wrote...

Youd rather destroy them and wipe them from existence then change their beliefs? Why?

Using conventional morality as a basis for my argument... Would you rather die fighting for something you believed in or be brainwashed into becoming your enemy's allies?

I know, Geth are software and our morals don't apply to them... but strictly speaking from a "Paragon" perspective this is another choice that should have been flipped around on the Paragon/Renegade scale.

Not to everyone.

I see rewriting them as paragon. I can see the possible consequences, but it's also just chance. At least you're giving them the opportunity to reform by rewriting them, instead of flat wiping them out.

[MisterJB]

Ruthless is good. I want Miranda to still be ruthless in ME3, thank you very much.

naledgeborn wrote...
 but strictly speaking from a "Paragon" perspective this is another choice that should have been flipped around on the Paragon/Renegade scale.

No. Paragon has always been about preserving life, no matter what. For example, when Shepard encounter salarian on Virmire whose personalities have been entirely stripped away by Indocrination, the option to kill them is Renegade.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

MisterJB wrote...

Ruthless is good. I want Miranda to still be ruthless in ME3, thank you very much.

Not in an evil "TIM" way I hope!

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:27 .

[naledgeborn]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Not to everyone.

I see rewriting them as paragon. I can see the possible consequences, but it's also just chance. At least you're giving them the opportunity to reform by rewriting them, instead of flat wiping them out.

LOL. No, you're not "giving them a chance". Giving them a chance would mean engaging Heretics in diplomacy rather than hostility. What was done to them is equivalent to biological warfare. Shepard literally unleashed a virus on them to suit his convenience.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:28 .

[jtav]

Yeah, ruthless is good. I'm drowning in romance options that are on the side of the angels. I don't need another one.

[MisterJB]

To give an example of the differences I envision between Jack Harper's Cerberus and Miranda's.

In "Invason", Harper wants to conquer Omega. I can see Miranda agreeing with this, the place is an hive for scum and villany, lead by thugs and slavers.
In order to do so, Harper uses the Adjuntants as a diversion. But he does this by sacrificing every single scientist that had been worked on the Adjuntant colonies. Apparently, this makes the diversion extra convincing.
I think Miranda would be willing to use the Adjuntants but she would evacuate the scientists beforehand.

naledgeborn wrote...

LOL. No, you're not "giving them a chance". Giving them a chance would mean engaging Heretics in diplomacy rather than hostility. What was done to them is equivalent to biological warfare. Shepard literally unleashed a virus on them to suit his convenience.

And what chance did those salarians have? The heretics are still alive, aren't they?

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Why does everyone want Miri to be so....dark and ruthless? What's with you people with that?

[AgitatedLemon]

naledgeborn wrote...

LOL. No, you're not "giving them a chance". Giving them a chance would mean engaging Heretics in diplomacy rather than hostility. What was done to them is equivalent to biological warfare. Shepard literally unleashed a virus on them to suit his convenience.

Umm... No. You lose points for comparing the rewrite to BioW.

And yes, you ARE "giving them a chance", based on the premise that that CHANCE can still fail. the rewrite does little to benefit Shepard personally, so I wouldn't say it "suits his own convenience".

The only reason Shepard was even given the choice was because Legion hadn't reached consensus.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Yeah, ruthless is good.

I certainly want Miranda to retain that capacity. It's the stupidity and pointless cruelty of some of TIM's decisions/methods that, as you say, would need to go.

[Dr. Doctor]

jtav wrote...

Miranda's vision of Cerberus? The advancement of humanity yes. That was TIM's vision as well. The trouble is that he had a habit of disregarding actual humans even when it wasn't necessary to achieve his goals. Too much of Cerberus was cruelty for cruelty's sake. I expect a more moral Cerberus from her, where murder, torture, and the like are the instruments of last resort rather than first resort.

After reading Evolution TIM strikes me more as being hell-bent on protecting humanity from the Reapers. He received the same vision that Shepard did, but he didn't have the benefit of the Cipher like Shepard did. He's not so much looking to create a new future for humanity as he's trying to defend against a threat that he has no information on.

Unleashing Rachni on listening posts, what happened at Teltin, and the experiments with husks and creepers could be justified by TIM because what is a few lives when the existence of humanity is on the line? TIM isn't so much outright evil he's extremely misguided.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I don't know about any of you, but I'm glad that I'm one of the few people who doesn't want Miri to be cruel. What kind of fanbase is that?<_<

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:35 .

[ThomGau]

Miranda would first use reasoning and negociation to a critical situation I think . Though she won't hesitate a second to use " manu militari " or ruthlessness to achieve her goals if she thinks it is a necessity .
She would never use "pointless cruelty " as she says when she sees the prisonner being beaten up during Jack RM .

Modifié par ThomGau, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:36 .