82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
Leaving this here before I hit the sack:

http://twitter.com/#...195603864338432
"Will character loyalty status have an impact in ME3?"

"Loyalty itself may or may not, but effects of choices made on certain loyalty missions can be HUGE."

I wonder if I can take that as "We haven't made a final decision about that yet". There may be more of the writing not yet done than E3 appeared to suggest.

[Sebby]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Shotokanguy wrote...
First off, the idea of an organization like Cerberus has always felt like a purely fictional possibility. They're just insane. Who's to say the thought never occurs to Miranda, who is already an intelligent person, and is being influenced by someone as influential as Shepard?

The idea itself I don't find insane, no. But the degree of needless cruelty displayed is indeed beyond ridiculous. How you judge them depends on how much you take these things at face value. I just can't. I can't believe that *any* organization could ever be quite so blithely disregarding of human lives to not even try to find solutions to their problems that cost less lives. So I assume the over-the-top-ness is a result of "players are morons"-thinking and reduce the amount of sheer idiocy in my mind to make the organization more believable. Miranda wouldn't be working with idiots, in that you're right.   

Secondly, in that moment in the Collector base, it's not strange to think that what she'd seen in there had created some indescribable feeling that simply told her what the Illusive Man wanted was wrong, and that she had to disobey him. On top of everything else, she made the decision to leave.

Oh, I don't deny she may have those feelings. But I don't think she'd act on them. Let's leave it at that, that topic has been debated to death.

@Seboist:
Fortunately, these lines are all easily avoidable. It's the unavoidable ones that I find annoying, or those that result from a decision I make a certain way, but for other reasons than Shepard gives. Here's one: I like to overall mood if you shout down the Admiralty board in Tali's LM. I like that Shepard calls them out for having a propaganda trial. But really, Tali's history of service should have absolutely NO bearing on the proceedings. Realistically, it may have an affect on the sentence if Tali is found guilty, but for the decision itself no court worth its name would let it matter one bit.

Cerberus is actually pretty tame compared to the real life Unit 731 of the Imperial Japanese army back in WW2.

[Ieldra]

Seboist wrote...
Cerberus is actually pretty tame compared to the real life Unit 731 of the Imperial Japanese army back in WW2.

Yes, but in that case the cruelty was the point of it, and any possible benefits just a justification. The same with the experiments in the N*zi concentration camps. Also it was war, *and* the perpetrators had their ideology of racial/cultural superiority ideology for support. Cerberus claims to work for all humanity, and that's the main reason why people work for them. So what they're doing is sacrificing the lives of their own. That's what I think people working for Cerberus wouldn't do as lightly as depicted in the games.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 juin 2011 - 09:41 .

[Jebel Krong]

cr: fhiacha

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...
Leaving this here before I hit the sack:

http://twitter.com/#...195603864338432
"Will character loyalty status have an impact in ME3?"

"Loyalty itself may or may not, but effects of choices made on certain loyalty missions can be HUGE."

I wonder if I can take that as "We haven't made a final decision about that yet". There may be more of the writing not yet done than E3 appeared to suggest.

I should imagine that with the grace period they've been given then re-writes will occur or even finishing touches to storyline elements. I don't think EA is quite the 'evil empire' it used to be (ironically, I think it's Activision now -- and I think it's ironic if you know a bit about Activision's origins) so I think EA is relatively enthusiastic about the ME franchise and is quietly praying to itself: "Don't f*ck it up, don't f*ck it up!"

[Jebel Krong]

naledgeborn wrote...

Lets be honest here, masseffectfanforlife101 has been asking for a good trolling a while now. Dude is always in this thread getting butt hurt after every other comment and when he's not crying he's acting like an attention wh*re. It's beginning to irritate me (and others I assume) that this dude's childishness is detracting from this thread's point.
/rant. 

nobody deserves trolling, but tbh that wasn't real trolling, either. the rest i agree with - it's affecting how often i bother to come here, now.

[jtav]

I don't think Oriana will affect much compared to Tali, Mordin, and Legion. She may be used as leverage to force Miranda to stay with Cerberus for a time. She tries (not very hard) to kill you. You defeat her and remove the blackmail threat. She joins you to take Cerberus down because she swore to make them pay for using Oriana against her and "I honor my promises."

I really like that scenario.

[naledgeborn]

How could "the choice" in Miranda's LM effect her in ME3? Oriana knowing about Miranda would definitely throw some wrenches in Cerberus' plan to kidnap and leverage her. What other consequences do people foresee? Mordin is tied to the Genophage, Tali to the Quarians, and Legion to the Geth so all their LMs carry weight. What about Miranda's? It effects her on a personal level, but beyond that not much else.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 27 juin 2011 - 01:17 .

[Rawke]

naledgeborn wrote...

How could "the choice" in Miranda's LM effect her in ME3? Oriana knowing about Miranda would definitely throw some wrenches in Cerberus' plan to kidnap and leverage her. What other consequences do people foresee? Mordin is tied to the Genophage, Tali to the Quarians, and Legion to the Geth so all their LMs carry weight. What about Miranda's? It effects her on a personal level, but beyond that not much else.

Are you really sure? I believe it makes difference if you (and this speculation) have to take down her father or if you have to take down her father without endangering her sister. If you don't do Miri's LM, Oriana will be returned to Lawson Senior, giving him a way to lure his wayward daughter into all kinds of traps. It changes a lot of variables, because it is questionable whether her father will support Cerberus again or not, and if he doesn't, Cerberus probably doesn't have the ressources to aquire Oriana to put some pressure on Miranda. All that doesn''t have to have anything to do with Shepard; you may meet Miranda while she's on the hunt for her father/TIM, or she may assist you in taking down Cerberus. All that may be influenced by the way you resolved Miri's LM.

However, this is all just speculation. We won't know for sure until we get more information.

[Ieldra]

naledgeborn wrote...
How could "the choice" in Miranda's LM effect her in ME3? Oriana knowing about Miranda would definitely throw some wrenches in Cerberus' plan to kidnap and leverage her. What other consequences do people foresee? Mordin is tied to the Genophage, Tali to the Quarians, and Legion to the Geth so all their LMs carry weight. What about Miranda's? It effects her on a personal level, but beyond that not much else.

Miranda is linked to Cerberus. Perhaps it's not so much her LM decision that affects her story arc in ME3 than the endgame decision. It certainly has a lot more more potential. 

I think I'll repeat this until I'm blue in the face, but I don't think we'll get another "resuce Oriana" scenario nor is that desirable because we already had that. Tuck Oriana safely away on some planet and let Miranda worry about her fate in some conversation, that's really all we need of her. Just because she can become a minor plot hook doesn't mean it is desirable. Why are people so dead set for making every single personal connection tie into the plot somewhere, regardless of repetition?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 juin 2011 - 01:58 .

[naledgeborn]

Believe me I'm with Ieldra. I'd hate for a "Rescue Oriana Pt. 2" scenario. That's just stupid. But the decision in Mass Effect 2 was "You should speak with her." or "If you say so." I doubt that these were nothing more than a chance to rack up Paragon/Renegade points. The gist of my post was, "how will the decision in Miranda's loyalty mission effect ME3?"

[jtav]

Ieldra, Oriana is the proverbial gun on the mantelpiece. If she (specifically the fact that her safety is dependent on Miranda being in Cerberus' good graces) isn't used in ME3, I'll be annoyed because they set up that thread and didn't follow through with it.

[Jebel Krong]

jtav wrote...

Ieldra, Oriana is the proverbial gun on the mantelpiece. If she (specifically the fact that her safety is dependent on Miranda being in Cerberus' good graces) isn't used in ME3, I'll be annoyed because they set up that thread and didn't follow through with it.

what do you mean? they used oriana as the whole premise of the loyalty mission. that's done and story-wise dealt with, if they use the same 'hook' again for Miranda development, i'll be very disappointed.

[S.A.K]

Miranda's face looks a bit.....off, from some angles. I hope they fix it in ME3

Modifié par S.A.K, 27 juin 2011 - 02:16 .

[enayasoul]

jtav wrote...

Ieldra, Oriana is the proverbial gun on the mantelpiece. If she (specifically the fact that her safety is dependent on Miranda being in Cerberus' good graces) isn't used in ME3, I'll be annoyed because they set up that thread and didn't follow through with it.

I happen to agree with this.  Miranda, Oriana, her father and dealing with Cerberus are all connected in various ways.  I want to know about all of them. How they are dealt with.   6-12 months Miranda could have brought Oriana to a safe place we just don't know what happened in that time frame yet.

[Rawke]

jtav wrote...

Ieldra, Oriana is the proverbial gun on the mantelpiece. If she (specifically the fact that her safety is dependent on Miranda being in Cerberus' good graces) isn't used in ME3, I'll be annoyed because they set up that thread and didn't follow through with it.

I agree. It's one of the thing's that got me worried in terms of character developement (not just for Miranda but any ME2-character). The writers created some really nice characters, but they ddin't really define them as clearly as they could've. You get this interesting background story thread, but they don't really go through with it in ME2. If they don't continue with that in ME3 to give some closure to each character's developement and background, I'll be very disappointed. It doesn't have to be another "Save Oriana"-mission (that wouldn't make sense, at least if Shepard's directly involved), but I do want to have something about their relationship in ME3, possibly through conversations or by introducing Miranda as she is in the process of rescuing Oriana. The Oriana-topic must not be abandoned in ME3.

[Melra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...
How could "the choice" in Miranda's LM effect her in ME3? Oriana knowing about Miranda would definitely throw some wrenches in Cerberus' plan to kidnap and leverage her. What other consequences do people foresee? Mordin is tied to the Genophage, Tali to the Quarians, and Legion to the Geth so all their LMs carry weight. What about Miranda's? It effects her on a personal level, but beyond that not much else.

Miranda is linked to Cerberus. Perhaps it's not so much her LM decision that affects her story arc in ME3 than the endgame decision. It certainly has a lot more more potential. 

I think I'll repeat this until I'm blue in the face, but I don't think we'll get another "resuce Oriana" scenario nor is that desirable because we already had that. Tuck Oriana safely away on some planet and let Miranda worry about her fate in some conversation, that's really all we need of her. Just because she can become a minor plot hook doesn't mean it is desirable. Why are people so dead set for making every single personal connection tie into the plot somewhere, regardless of repetition?

I totally agree. I personally see that card played out now. She's relocated, hopefully more safe, but I don't want to go saving her again. I want to hear Miri mention her, as a nod, that she still exists and is hopefully safe somewhere. They can come up with something much more interesting, while tying it to the main plot.

[jtav]

Jebel Krong wrote...

jtav wrote...

Ieldra, Oriana is the proverbial gun on the mantelpiece. If she (specifically the fact that her safety is dependent on Miranda being in Cerberus' good graces) isn't used in ME3, I'll be annoyed because they set up that thread and didn't follow through with it.

what do you mean? they used oriana as the whole premise of the loyalty mission. that's done and story-wise dealt with, if they use the same 'hook' again for Miranda development, i'll be very disappointed.

"Miranda Lawson is too valuable to Cerberus, and Oriana's well-being is easiest means of procuring loyalty.." Oriana is also a major reason why she went to Cerberus. If she resigned, her sister is now in  danger. If she didn't, she knows that leaving Cerberus will put Oriana in danger. It's bad drama to deal with that in a throwaway line.

[Jebel Krong]

jtav wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

jtav wrote...

Ieldra, Oriana is the proverbial gun on the mantelpiece. If she (specifically the fact that her safety is dependent on Miranda being in Cerberus' good graces) isn't used in ME3, I'll be annoyed because they set up that thread and didn't follow through with it.

what do you mean? they used oriana as the whole premise of the loyalty mission. that's done and story-wise dealt with, if they use the same 'hook' again for Miranda development, i'll be very disappointed.

"Miranda Lawson is too valuable to Cerberus, and Oriana's well-being is easiest means of procuring loyalty.." Oriana is also a major reason why she went to Cerberus. If she resigned, her sister is now in  danger. If she didn't, she knows that leaving Cerberus will put Oriana in danger. It's bad drama to deal with that in a throwaway line.

Miranda is (/should be) too smart to be reliant on external sources to protect Miranda after ME2's LM - TIM may have other plans, but really the first thing she would have done would be to move them off the grid, away even from Cerberus, and if not then, certainly later when her eyes were more open.

to make Oriana again the centre of a mission would be a complete waste and a simple regurgitation of ME2, the character deserves better.

[ViSeiRa]

jtav wrote...

Ieldra, Oriana is the proverbial gun on the mantelpiece. If she (specifically the fact that her safety is dependent on Miranda being in Cerberus' good graces) isn't used in ME3, I'll be annoyed because they set up that thread and didn't follow through with it.

But it's an issue that can be dealt with in the background, Miranda can't be so helpless as to need Shepard's help twice to secure her sister, maybe the first time wasn't as much needing his as help as requiring it, but she shouldn't need it a second time, I foresee the moment the Normandy SR2 clears the Omega 4 Relay and despite of Miranda's status with Shepard she gets off at the nearest port to re-locate Oriana (depends on whether she resigns or not, an often debatable subject itself)... I wouldn't mind Oriana having some screen time, but she needs to be tied to something bigger than a sister relationship with Miranda, in short, de-personalize her.

Modifié par ViSeirA, 27 juin 2011 - 02:46 .

[LuxDragon]

I actually have a small idea about what to do with Oriana in my fic.

It's just a narative line and little dialogue, but I think jtav might like it.

It'll be awhile before I get to it though...

[Vertigo_1]

Posting this here too since Ieldra2 is going:D


twitter.com/#!/dsilvermanea/status/85226306425466881

"Will the hands-on demo be at Gamescom? Looking forward to seeing the action, up close either way :)"

"We will have something equally cool at GamesCom"

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 27 juin 2011 - 03:35 .

[ViSeiRa]

LuxDragon wrote...

I actually have a small idea about what to do with Oriana in my fic.

It's just a narative line and little dialogue, but I think jtav might like it.

It'll be awhile before I get to it though...

I'll just drop this here, but your fic is awesome... I've been reading it from the start, I love how you stay true to the story but still add lots of stuff that makes it more real, keep it up... also can't wait to see how you "paint" the engine room scene

[StarsInMyEyes]

I find Miranda one of the most misunderstood characters in ME2, people only seem to be focused on the size of her bottom, however enticing, I feel she has a lot more to offer, she is tough, loyal and intelligent, and did I mention beautiful, I would love to see her in a s/s romance but I don't think Bioware will do that, it is looking like Ashley will be our s/s lli for ME3, this is just my opinion.

[13commander]

Jebel Krong wrote...

jtav wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

jtav wrote...

Ieldra, Oriana is the proverbial gun on the mantelpiece. If she (specifically the fact that her safety is dependent on Miranda being in Cerberus' good graces) isn't used in ME3, I'll be annoyed because they set up that thread and didn't follow through with it.

what do you mean? they used oriana as the whole premise of the loyalty mission. that's done and story-wise dealt with, if they use the same 'hook' again for Miranda development, i'll be very disappointed.

"Miranda Lawson is too valuable to Cerberus, and Oriana's well-being is easiest means of procuring loyalty.." Oriana is also a major reason why she went to Cerberus. If she resigned, her sister is now in  danger. If she didn't, she knows that leaving Cerberus will put Oriana in danger. It's bad drama to deal with that in a throwaway line.

Miranda is (/should be) too smart to be reliant on external sources to protect Miranda after ME2's LM - TIM may have other plans, but really the first thing she would have done would be to move them off the grid, away even from Cerberus, and if not then, certainly later when her eyes were more open.

to make Oriana again the centre of a mission would be a complete waste and a simple regurgitation of ME2, the character deserves better.

Why not just have Oriana aboard the Normandy 

bad idea 'cuz Miranda wants her to have a normal life, but still being the reaper war and all  ... maybe she can be safe aboard the ship where the most badass Fighters in the galaxy are  ... but still that is counter productive because the team is always in danger


I am running in circels here 


but seriously Oriana shouldn't be the main focus of that/some type of mission related to Miranda but maybe like a secondary quest ? 

Do i make any least amount of sense <_< ... in my mind I am talking only about stupid things 

Modifié par 13commander, 27 juin 2011 - 03:50 .