82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

android654 wrote...
The first "opening up" line is about how well he's doing and how she was wrong about his cabailities. The line about people following him is another testament to what he pulls off in the battlefield and not about him as a person.

Wait... Does that distinction really exist? That's part of Shepard's identity, who he is as a person, etc. Just like a person's career, professional life and so on are a big part of why you might be interested in someone in RL.

I do think Miranda's interest in Shepard has a... calculated side to it, though. She's a scientist in part, after all, and she knows him first and foremost from that point of view. Also, in the friendship path, she seems partly impressed with Shep as a... specimen. (She actually uses that word, doesn't she?)

So... I think there might be more on this in ME3.

Modifié par flemm, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:02 .

[CrutchCricket]

android654 wrote...

Freeman has no feet, he's a ghost its not difficult to ascertain this. Its the weirdest thing Valve has going on with their engine. Every other FPS is more true to life since you can see your own extremities and body but not Freeman apparently. Also he's a mute and has basically no character could be just about anyone else and you wouldn't notice a difference.

The drawing of extremities (more specifically feet) only really came in just after HL2. The earliest FPS I remember with it was FEAR. The episodes came later but Valve didn't really want to modify their engine at that point. Is it really that immersion breaking? If you play Skyrim in first person you can't see your feet either.

Don't really feel like debating Shepard vs Jacob so I'll leave it at that.

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

jtav wrote...

Look no further than the promise scene. She's worried, nearly crying, but Shepard can't be worried and can't admit he's terrified of losing her. The mask never falls, even with the LI, as it did in ME1. And if the mask never falls, how am I the player to know that it's a mask?

Pardon, I just finished the romance.

Given the dialogue choices, I can understand where Shepard is coming from.

"I don't plan on it" is him wanting to keep his and her morale up by assuring her that he will survive. She will not lose him. He is giving her something to look forward to.

"No promises" IS Shepard opening up more. "So if it isn't worth it..." is pretty ballsy.

Going off of Miranda's prior dialogue, Shepard doesn't need to tell her that he's afraid he might lose her, she already knows.

edit: I'm not going off the way Shepard and Meer actually verbalize it. That's atrocious. I'm more or less following the tone and message of the paraphrase.

Yeah, but its a scene where she's being very emotional and his response is "hey buddy don't look so glum, cheer up." Its like he has no idea how to communicate with people let alone someone who's crying over is possible death.

You haven't ever tried to reassure a loved one that something will not turn out so bad?

And he's saying it a little deeper than "Har har turn dat frown upside down har har"

[AgitatedLemon]

jtav wrote...

But he's never not the rock. He never needs her to reassure him, One scene where she has to be there for him, that's all I'm asking. As is, it's a dealbreaker. Meer's performance is very bad here.

If that's what you're asking for, then yes, I agree.

[android654]

But does it not reflect more on his battle prowess and not about him as an individual? Also this could just feed into the Christlike figure they have to make Shepard into since people will follow you no matter what your decisions are. So if Shepard is goodhearted soul she says this, if he's a selfish bastard she says this, so it can't really be a personality trait if your personality can be different and she still sees this.

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

But does it not reflect more on his battle prowess and not about him as an individual? Also this could just feed into the Christlike figure they have to make Shepard into since people will follow you no matter what your decisions are. So if Shepard is goodhearted soul she says this, if he's a selfish bastard she says this, so it can't really be a personality trait if your personality can be different and she still sees this.

You can take it for what you want.

I see it as a caring reassurance, nothing more, nothing less.

[flemm]

android654 wrote...
 So if Shepard is goodhearted soul she says this, if he's a selfish bastard she says this, so it can't really be a personality trait if your personality can be different and she still sees this.

Hmmm, well, I don't think that's really a problem because I think you have to consider each playthrough as a self-contained narrative. Or, it is a problem, but one that is simply inherent to the genre.

[android654]

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...

Freeman has no feet, he's a ghost its not difficult to ascertain this. Its the weirdest thing Valve has going on with their engine. Every other FPS is more true to life since you can see your own extremities and body but not Freeman apparently. Also he's a mute and has basically no character could be just about anyone else and you wouldn't notice a difference.

The drawing of extremities (more specifically feet) only really came in just after HL2. The earliest FPS I remember with it was FEAR. The episodes came later but Valve didn't really want to modify their engine at that point. Is it really that immersion breaking? If you play Skyrim in first person you can't see your feet either.

Don't really feel like debating Shepard vs Jacob so I'll leave it at that.

I haven't been playing games that long and just finished HL2 and it was immersion breaking. I haven't played Skyrim but I have played Fallout3 and can only do so in 3rd person

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

jtav wrote...

Look no further than the promise scene. She's worried, nearly crying, but Shepard can't be worried and can't admit he's terrified of losing her. The mask never falls, even with the LI, as it did in ME1. And if the mask never falls, how am I the player to know that it's a mask?

Pardon, I just finished the romance.

Given the dialogue choices, I can understand where Shepard is coming from.

"I don't plan on it" is him wanting to keep his and her morale up by assuring her that he will survive. She will not lose him. He is giving her something to look forward to.

"No promises" IS Shepard opening up more. "So if it isn't worth it..." is pretty ballsy.

Going off of Miranda's prior dialogue, Shepard doesn't need to tell her that he's afraid he might lose her, she already knows.

edit: I'm not going off the way Shepard and Meer actually verbalize it. That's atrocious. I'm more or less following the tone and message of the paraphrase.

Yeah, but its a scene where she's being very emotional and his response is "hey buddy don't look so glum, cheer up." Its like he has no idea how to communicate with people let alone someone who's crying over is possible death.

You haven't ever tried to reassure a loved one that something will not turn out so bad?

And he's saying it a little deeper than "Har har turn dat frown upside down har har"

If someone was distraught over the fact that I might die, then I'd say more than a crappy line like that. You know, something reassuring that says I know what she's feeling. I just think the dialogue fails in a lot of places.

[CrutchCricket]

I don't blame Shepard for that scene. One of them needs to stay strong. It goes further in supporting the other one then if they both break down. I agree that Miranda should return the favor at some point though.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

I don't blame Shepard for that scene. One of them needs to stay strong. It goes further in supporting the other one then if they both break down. I agree that Miranda should return the favor at some point though.

Well... options. It's not a problem that "staying strong" is an option, but there should be an option to be more emotional and empathetic. Anyway, I think the devs got the message on that one.

[wright1978]

flemm wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

I don't blame Shepard for that scene. One of them needs to stay strong. It goes further in supporting the other one then if they both break down. I agree that Miranda should return the favor at some point though.

Well... options. It's not a problem that "staying strong" is an option, but there should be an option to be more emotional and empathetic. Anyway, I think the devs got the message on that one.

As long as they are implementing choice and aren't just going the extreme of the other way.

[jtav]

The problem with the reassurance is Meer's performance (and the digital actor's). I simp;y don't believe Shepard care's about her in this scene. Imagine if the scene were reblocked so that, for instance, he was sitting beside her, maybe stroking her face and hair.

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...
Well... options. It's not a problem that "staying strong" is an option, but there should be an option to be more emotional and empathetic. Anyway, I think the devs got the message on that one.

Can't disagree with more options:wizard:

From a dev standpoint that scene could've been improved with more options. From a dialog standpoint perhaps the lines could've been polished. It was fine otherwise.

[MisterJB]

android654 wrote...

The first "opening up" line is about how well he's doing and how she was wrong about his cabailities.

True, that's when Miranda comes to respect him. I was not attempting to say that what Shepard has accomplished doesn't have a large role in how Miranda feels for him.
If she did not respect him, their relationship would not last. Just like her relationship with Jacob.

The line about people following him is another testament to what he pulls off in the battlefield and not about him as a person.

Untrue. That was not a testament of how Shepard is good at killing things. The "Fire" that inspires people's loyalties is a part of his personality. Miranda has just a great understanding of tactics as Shepard but she is not good at inspiring loyalty.

Also, there are other lines that point towards an appreciation of who Shepard is. "I recall a Spectre who crossed a few lines while hunting down for Saren and the Geth". Miranda likes how Shepard is willing to bend the rules to get the job done, instead of getting slowed down by bureaucracies.
"We'd be lucky to have you. Too many join us out of simply xenophobia, we need more people here for the right reasons." Miranda appreciates Shepard's motivations.
"You've proved yourself trustworthy."
Finally, see the reactions she has whenever Shepard tries to covince her that she is her own person. They are very genuine and those have nothing to do with how good of a soldier Shepard is.


At any rate, it is hard to write a romance where the LI appreciates Shepard's personality because the player is supposed to come up with that himself.

[AgitatedLemon]

@android, which is why I said I was ignoring the way Meer and Shepard delivered the line, instead focusing on the tone and mood.

[AgitatedLemon]

jtav wrote...

The problem with the reassurance is Meer's performance (and the digital actor's). I simp;y don't believe Shepard care's about her in this scene. Imagine if the scene were reblocked so that, for instance, he was sitting beside her, maybe stroking her face and hair.

Another reason why I think a hug or some other action should have been in the paragon dialogue, and not exclusive.

Actually, a hug while delivering the line would make me choose it over "No promises".

[android654]

@MisterJB

All of those lines could be redirected to his work. People are more than just the things that they do, but Shepard apparently isn't. At least Hale's a good actress. Let's hope the others are right about giving this guy a character, finally at the end of his story.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Could you Imagine if Mass Effect was made with just ONE Gender for Shepard? Just FemShep? Or MaleShep?

[AgitatedLemon]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Could you Imagine if Mass Effect was made with just ONE Gender for Shepard? Just FemShep? Or MaleShep?

Not that BioWare would actually do that, but I can honestly say I likely wouldn't play it.

[android654]

I'd prefer Femshep. she's just better on all counts. Better voice actress better official art design.



She's just better than Maleshep so far.

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

Tried to capture Miranda's anxiousness before her flirtation. I think there might be better screenshots but I can't catch that millisecond where she has her eys sligthly open.

This looks almost as if she's sleeping, ,LOL.

BTW, it is amazing how fast you can go through ME2 if you play on Casual and skip transfer sequences and the conversations you don't care for....I just played Overlord in 35 minutes.

Edit:
The HL2 talk has gone on long enough!

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:25 .

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

I'd prefer Femshep. she's just better on all counts. Better voice actress better official art design.



She's just better than Maleshep so far.

The only reason her official art is better is because of a fan vote. A fan vote.

@ Ieldra-

I hate having to do Overlord. It's so boring.

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
This looks almost as if she's sleeping, ,LOL.

I always tought it was a big shot that they just happened to meet on the elevator.

Miranda: Finally! Do you have any idea how long I've been waiting here for you to use the damn elevator?

[AgitatedLemon]

MisterJB wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
This looks almost as if she's sleeping, ,LOL.

I always tought it was a big shot that they just happened to meet on the elevator.

Miranda: Finally! Do you have any idea how long I've been waiting here for you to use the damn elevator?

Shepard: At least I'm willing to strike up the conversations around here! Let's see YOU do any better. All you do is sit at your desk, telling me "There's a lot to do" and "Maybe some other time"!

[Dr. Doctor]

flemm wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

I don't blame Shepard for that scene. One of them needs to stay strong. It goes further in supporting the other one then if they both break down. I agree that Miranda should return the favor at some point though.

Well... options. It's not a problem that "staying strong" is an option, but there should be an option to be more emotional and empathetic. Anyway, I think the devs got the message on that one.

Liara does bring up that Shepard often hides his fears and insecurities from his squad because he's expected to lead. Shepard might care about Miranda but she's still a member of his squad and he needs to play the confident CO.

Meanwhile ME3 Shepard's gotten a healthy dose of Hawke. He's allowed to be worried about defeating the Reapers, and his relationship with Miranda gets a major upgrade

*highlight*

Shepard: I've been thinking about Miranda. She was something special. I'm trying to remember if I ever told her that.