82210 réponses à ce sujet

[TomY90]

StarsInMyEyes wrote...

I find Miranda one of the most misunderstood characters in ME2, people only seem to be focused on the size of her bottom, however enticing, I feel she has a lot more to offer, she is tough, loyal and intelligent, and did I mention beautiful, I would love to see her in a s/s romance but I don't think Bioware will do that, it is looking like Ashley will be our s/s lli for ME3, this is just my opinion.

I agree with you on everything pretty much except the same sex relationship part simply because of it not really flowing with ME2 and ME3 (if she was same sex in ME2 then I would be more happy with it than introducing it in ME3)

[Ieldra]

@jtav, Rawke, enyasoul:
My problem is that (a) I don't want another "Rescue Oriana" scenario, and ( that a personal connection as major plot hook cheapens the main plot connection. For instance, if her main motivation to take out Cerberus is to make Oriana safe, what does that say of Miranda's grasp of the big picture? If it's just an additional motivation, it's essentially superfluous.

I'm not against her appearing again if they do something interesting with her. Make her more of an actor in her own right instead of just Miranda's morality pet, make her complicate a mission because of her actions, even let her take a level in badass. Just not as a figure in the background who's good for nothing more than being the victim and to put pressure on Miranda. As obvious as such a development would be: we had that.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 juin 2011 - 03:58 .

[Caihn]

MisterJB wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
Personally, I also add the 1st romance conversation to this list.
IMO the conversation about Cerberus sounds like the typical Cerberus propaganda speach, with Miranda trying to convice herself that Cerberus motives are right and still in accord with her personal convictions.

Are you referring to when Miranda defends the Cerberus' operations we encounter in ME1?
Quite frankly, I tought her justifications were all very reasonable.

Rasonable ? yes, like all the things Cerberus/TIM say to justify their actions.
But it's not what she says which matters, but how. The tone of the conversation, and the defensive position really made me feel that she was trying to convice herself more than Shepard.
Like I said, I understand that other people could interpret this scene differently.

Personally, I wasn't surprise at all when she resigned during my 1st playthrough.




http://vierna-drotti...awson-215153322

Modifié par Yannkee, 27 juin 2011 - 04:04 .

[MisterJB]

I did interpret it differently. The defensive position was most likely because Shepard was "attacking" her, questioning her about Cerberus. The very fact that she answered was, IMO, a show of respect for Shepard; Jack gets no such thing during their confrotantion, for example; and it was also an attempt to get him to realize that Cerberus is not his enemy. Harboring doubts about TIM doesn't necessarely mean she will not defend the Cerberus she believes in. And it just didn't seem to me that she suspected TIM had filtered info regarding those particular missions.
Truth be told, Bioware only allow us to question her about experiments that can be easily justified. I would very much like to hear Miranda's opinion about Akuze or Project Overlord.

Personally, I really, really love that scene. Seeing Miranda defend something so passionately. Not something you see everyday.

Modifié par MisterJB, 27 juin 2011 - 04:39 .

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Are you referring to when Miranda defends the Cerberus' operations we encounter in ME1?
Quite frankly, I tought her justifications were all very reasonable.

Reasonable ? yes, like all the things Cerberus/TIM say to justify their actions.
But it's not what she says which matters, but how. The tone of the conversation, and the defensive position really made me feel that she was trying to convice herself more than Shepard.
Like I said, I understand that other people could interpret this scene differently.

I've just watched the conversation again on youtube (your video at ). I can't see any defensiveness in this situation. She seems dedicated but relaxed, perhaps a little uncomfortable because she has to apologize - she won't like that one bit - and thereÄs that hint of jealousy of TIM's attention. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree as so often :/

Nice picture.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 juin 2011 - 04:35 .

[StarsInMyEyes]

TomY90 wrote...

StarsInMyEyes wrote...

I find Miranda one of the most misunderstood characters in ME2, people only seem to be focused on the size of her bottom, however enticing, I feel she has a lot more to offer, she is tough, loyal and intelligent, and did I mention beautiful, I would love to see her in a s/s romance but I don't think Bioware will do that, it is looking like Ashley will be our s/s lli for ME3, this is just my opinion.

I agree with you on everything pretty much except the same sex relationship part simply because of it not really flowing with ME2 and ME3 (if she was same sex in ME2 then I would be more happy with it than introducing it in ME3)

 Do you feel it will be  brand new characters that will be introduced in ME3 for the s/s romances?
Hmmm, I just hope they bring back Miranda anyway they can, she was awesome in battle, and I love her personality, although it seems to make most cringe.

[Td1984]

enayasoul wrote...

jtav wrote...

Ieldra, Oriana is the proverbial gun on the mantelpiece. If she (specifically the fact that her safety is dependent on Miranda being in Cerberus' good graces) isn't used in ME3, I'll be annoyed because they set up that thread and didn't follow through with it.

I happen to agree with this.  Miranda, Oriana, her father and dealing with Cerberus are all connected in various ways.  I want to know about all of them. How they are dealt with.   6-12 months Miranda could have brought Oriana to a safe place we just don't know what happened in that time frame yet.

I do believe that Miri can easily take care of Oriana in-between games. Due to the 6-12 month break, we know the Reapers are starting on the south end of the galaxy. So, Miranda swoops in, grabs Oriana and her adoptive family and moves them to a planet in the far north end of the galaxy. That way, either the Reapers will be stopped before their (Oriana & her family)  new home is endangered, or we'll all be dead because we lost and it will no longer matter anyway. 

[Caihn]

MisterJB wrote...

I did interpret it differently. The defensive position was most likely because Shepard was "attacking" her, questioning her about Cerberus. The very fact that she answered was, IMO, a show of respect for Shepard; Jack gets no such thing during their confrotantion, for example; and it was also an attempt to get him to realize that Cerberus is not his enemy.
Truth be told, Bioware only allow us to question her about experiments that can be easily justified. I would very much like to hear Miranda's opinion about Akuze or Project Overlord.

Personally, I really, really love that scene. Seeing Miranda defend something so passionately. Not something you see everyday.

I also like that scene, and I like when Miranda is defending her opinion.
But to me, during this scene, it's like she's telling to Shepard what TIM told her to justify these operations. I think TIM is a good manipulator, and he probably said to Miranda what she wanted to hear.
As long as Miranda still believes that Cerberus's motives are in accord with hers, she has no reason to doubt. And I think this conversation really show that she wants to believe that she's still in the organization which do the right thing for the right reasons.

[Caihn]

Td1984 wrote...

I do believe that Miri can easily take care of Oriana in-between games. Due to the 6-12 month break, we know the Reapers are starting on the south end of the galaxy. So, Miranda swoops in, grabs Oriana and her adoptive family and moves them to a planet in the far north end of the galaxy. That way, either the Reapers will be stopped before their (Oriana & her family)  new home is endangered, or we'll all be dead because we lost and it will no longer matter anyway. 

I also believe she could do this between the two games.

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

I did interpret it differently. The defensive position was most likely because Shepard was "attacking" her, questioning her about Cerberus. The very fact that she answered was, IMO, a show of respect for Shepard; Jack gets no such thing during their confrotantion, for example; and it was also an attempt to get him to realize that Cerberus is not his enemy.
Truth be told, Bioware only allow us to question her about experiments that can be easily justified. I would very much like to hear Miranda's opinion about Akuze or Project Overlord.

Personally, I really, really love that scene. Seeing Miranda defend something so passionately. Not something you see everyday.

I also like that scene, and I like when Miranda is defending her opinion.
But to me, during this scene, it's like she's telling to Shepard what TIM told her to justify these operations. I think TIM is a good manipulator, and he probably said to Miranda what she wanted to hear.

I agree it's quite likely that she went to TIM for information and he have her 3/4-truths as usual. But the important point here is that she appears convinced of it too. There is no hesitancy as in the scene with Jack when she says "It wasn't Cerberus, not really" *There* you see her doubt and try to convince herself. If you want to play a convincing path of Miranda growing less and less sure of Cerberus, then you need to play Jack's LM and the conflict after this scene. In this one, she's Cerberus. 100%.

[Td1984]

13commander wrote...
Why not just have Oriana aboard the Normandy 

bad idea 'cuz Miranda wants her to have a normal life, but still being the reaper war and all  ... maybe she can be safe aboard the ship where the most badass Fighters in the galaxy are  ... but still that is counter productive because the team is always in danger


I am running in circels here 


but seriously Oriana shouldn't be the main focus of that/some type of mission related to Miranda but maybe like a secondary quest ? 

Tbh, I've had that idea myself. While Shep is on trial, Miri goes to relocate Oriana and her family. Something happens, either Cerberus or the Reapers attack and once we board the Normandy, we have to come to their aid (I'm trying not to make it a "damsel-in-distress situation). Oriana's adoptive family doesn't make it and much to Miranda's dismay, the only real option left is to have Oriana onboard as an NPC. As for her role, likely Intelligence Officer. It's the job Miranda did for Jacob in ME Galaxy, plus Oriana has her level of intelligence, so it would likely work. 

Not saying this should happen, but it's a possibility if BW wants to tie Oriana in to ME3.

Modifié par Td1984, 27 juin 2011 - 05:04 .

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I agree it's quite likely that she went to TIM for information and he have her 3/4-truths as usual. But the important point here is that she appears convinced of it too. There is no hesitancy as in the scene with Jack when she says "It wasn't Cerberus, not really" *There* you see her doubt and try to convince herself. If you want to play a convincing path of Miranda growing less and less sure of Cerberus, then you need to play Jack's LM and the conflict after this scene. In this one, she's Cerberus. 100%.

This.

[Vertigo_1]

Does Miranda ever mention Admiral Kohoku in the conversation where Shep talks about the acts of Cerberus in ME1?  I've heard people say she mentions his name but never got that in my playthroughs.

Edited for clarity

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 27 juin 2011 - 05:09 .

[jtav]

I've never heard her mention him.

[Melra]

 Mew! More screenshots. 












''Is she... crying?  Aww..''



''Crap.. Act like you saw nothing! Close your eyes and count to ten... 1...2..3..''

[Vertigo_1]

jtav wrote...

I've never heard her mention him.

Yeah it would have been interesting asking her about that...and more importantly about the Thresher Maw event whether your a survivor of that or not (Toombs).

Missed oportunites right there

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 27 juin 2011 - 05:17 .

[13commander]

Td1984 wrote...

13commander wrote...
Why not just have Oriana aboard the Normandy 

bad idea 'cuz Miranda wants her to have a normal life, but still being the reaper war and all  ... maybe she can be safe aboard the ship where the most badass Fighters in the galaxy are  ... but still that is counter productive because the team is always in danger


I am running in circels here 


but seriously Oriana shouldn't be the main focus of that/some type of mission related to Miranda but maybe like a secondary quest ? 

Tbh, I've had that idea myself. While Shep is on trial, Miri goes to relocate Oriana and her family. Something happens, either Cerberus or the Reapers attack and once we board the Normandy, we have to come to their aid (I'm trying not to make it a "damsel-in-distress situation). Oriana's adoptive family doesn't make it and much to Miranda's dismay, the only real option left is to have Oriana onboard as an NPC. As for her role, likely Intelligence Officer. It's the job Miranda did for Jacob in ME Galaxy, plus Oriana has her level of intelligence, so it would likely work. 

Not saying this should happen, but it's a possibility if BW wants to tie Oriana in to ME3.

That was smth that was naging me for some time at least I am not the only one who thinks this is a possibility 

not saying that it should  happen but still IMO is smth worth considering 

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

I did interpret it differently. The defensive position was most likely because Shepard was "attacking" her, questioning her about Cerberus. The very fact that she answered was, IMO, a show of respect for Shepard; Jack gets no such thing during their confrotantion, for example; and it was also an attempt to get him to realize that Cerberus is not his enemy.
Truth be told, Bioware only allow us to question her about experiments that can be easily justified. I would very much like to hear Miranda's opinion about Akuze or Project Overlord.

Personally, I really, really love that scene. Seeing Miranda defend something so passionately. Not something you see everyday.

I also like that scene, and I like when Miranda is defending her opinion.
But to me, during this scene, it's like she's telling to Shepard what TIM told her to justify these operations. I think TIM is a good manipulator, and he probably said to Miranda what she wanted to hear.

I agree it's quite likely that she went to TIM for information and he have her 3/4-truths as usual. But the important point here is that she appears convinced of it too. There is no hesitancy as in the scene with Jack when she says "It wasn't Cerberus, not really" *There* you see her doubt and try to convince herself. If you want to play a convincing path of Miranda growing less and less sure of Cerberus, then you need to play Jack's LM and the conflict after this scene. In this one, she's Cerberus. 100%.

I don't agree.

To me she appears conviced because these arguments are in accord with what she believes in.
I don't say that she lost her faith in Cerberus during that scene, I say that she want to believe that she's still in the right place even with the arguments of shepard, what happened on Pragia, and TIM's action during the collector ship mission.

I always play Pragia mission before this conversation.
But I play overlord after this conversation.

Every time I have this conversation in mind I can't stop thinking to the moment when she told to Jocob : "I'm never wrong".
Like I said before, Miranda should not show her doubts to Shepard because it's not his buiseness. But I also think she would not admit she could have been wrong until she's sure that she made a mistake. Like during the LM : she doesn't want to believe that Nicket is a traitor until she sees him with Eclpse Mercs.

Modifié par Yannkee, 27 juin 2011 - 05:36 .

[Caihn]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Does Miranda ever mention Admiral Kohoku in the conversation where Shep talks about the acts of Cerberus in ME1?  I've heard people say she mentions his name but never got that in my playthroughs.

Edited for clarity

No she doesn't.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Miri mentioned something about Cerberus if you imported I believe, something about, "incidents?"

[Raizo]

naledgeborn wrote...

How could "the choice" in Miranda's LM effect her in ME3? Oriana knowing about Miranda would definitely throw some wrenches in Cerberus' plan to kidnap and leverage her. What other consequences do people foresee? Mordin is tied to the Genophage, Tali to the Quarians, and Legion to the Geth so all their LMs carry weight. What about Miranda's? It effects her on a personal level, but beyond that not much else.

I was thinking the same thing, if you convince Miri to talk to Oriana then the two do begin communicating with each other via email. It also wouldn't surprise me if Oriana did some snooping on Miranda's background ( she does seem to have a very similar personality to Miranda ) and is very much aware of Cerebus and the role her big sister plays in the organisation, she probably knows a lot more about what her sister does for a living than Miranda probably let on in Illium. All it would take is a quick email from Miranda and Orianna would know know that she is being watched by Cerebus and that her big sister is no longer in the organistion's good graces, I'm sure Orinna is smart enough and resourseful enough to look out for her self ( at least untill help arrives in the form of Miranda or Shepard ) seeing as how she and Miranda have the same dna and the same genetic potential.

I do agree with the overall majority in this thread however, we've already had to rescue Oriana in Me2, do we really need to have another variation of this mission again in ME3. Hopefully the issue with Oriana's safety will only play a small role in ME3, I like Orianna, I want to see more of her in ME3 and I would really like for Miranda to have a healthy relationship with her sister ( random thought, if Miri and Orina are clones of one another should Oriana look more like Miranda ) but I also want Miri to be doing other things in ME3 then just dealing with her family issues.

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

I did interpret it differently. The defensive position was most likely because Shepard was "attacking" her, questioning her about Cerberus. The very fact that she answered was, IMO, a show of respect for Shepard; Jack gets no such thing during their confrotantion, for example; and it was also an attempt to get him to realize that Cerberus is not his enemy.
Truth be told, Bioware only allow us to question her about experiments that can be easily justified. I would very much like to hear Miranda's opinion about Akuze or Project Overlord.

Personally, I really, really love that scene. Seeing Miranda defend something so passionately. Not something you see everyday.

I also like that scene, and I like when Miranda is defending her opinion.
But to me, during this scene, it's like she's telling to Shepard what TIM told her to justify these operations. I think TIM is a good manipulator, and he probably said to Miranda what she wanted to hear.

I agree it's quite likely that she went to TIM for information and he have her 3/4-truths as usual. But the important point here is that she appears convinced of it too. There is no hesitancy as in the scene with Jack when she says "It wasn't Cerberus, not really" *There* you see her doubt and try to convince herself. If you want to play a convincing path of Miranda growing less and less sure of Cerberus, then you need to play Jack's LM and the conflict after this scene. In this one, she's Cerberus. 100%.

I don't agree.

To me she appears conviced because these arguments are in accord with what she believes in.
I don't say that she lost her faith in Cerberus during that scene, I say that she want to believe that she's still in the right place even with the arguments of shepard, what happened on Pragia, and TIM's action during the collector ship mission.

I always play Pragia mission before this conversation.
But I play overlord after this conversation.

Every time I have this conversation in mind I can't stop thinking to the moment when she told to Jocob : "I'm never wrong".
Like I said before, Miranda should not show her doubts to Shepard because it's not his buiseness. But I also think she would not admit she could have been wrong until she's sure that she made a mistake. Like during the LM : she doesn't want to believe that Nicket is a traitor until she sees him with Eclpse Mercs.

Essentially what you're saying is this:

"Miranda has second thoughts about Cerberus she tries to suppress here, but we don't see anything of it because she wouldn't show it to Shepard. Nonetheless I'm convinced it's there."

Basically, interpretation without a shred of evidence to support it. That is....less than convincing. Of course it's your own game, and if you want to see Miranda that way you're free to do so. Just accept that your "interpretation" is nothing more than invention of Miranda's thoughts and has exactly zero weight as an argument supporting her growing doubts about Cerberus.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 juin 2011 - 05:51 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Well, at least she started to have doubts when her character development started to grow more, but that's my opinion.

[Repearized Miranda]

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

I did interpret it differently. The defensive position was most likely because Shepard was "attacking" her, questioning her about Cerberus. The very fact that she answered was, IMO, a show of respect for Shepard; Jack gets no such thing during their confrotantion, for example; and it was also an attempt to get him to realize that Cerberus is not his enemy.
Truth be told, Bioware only allow us to question her about experiments that can be easily justified. I would very much like to hear Miranda's opinion about Akuze or Project Overlord.

Personally, I really, really love that scene. Seeing Miranda defend something so passionately. Not something you see everyday.

I also like that scene, and I like when Miranda is defending her opinion.
But to me, during this scene, it's like she's telling to Shepard what TIM told her to justify these operations. I think TIM is a good manipulator, and he probably said to Miranda what she wanted to hear.

I agree it's quite likely that she went to TIM for information and he have her 3/4-truths as usual. But the important point here is that she appears convinced of it too. There is no hesitancy as in the scene with Jack when she says "It wasn't Cerberus, not really" *There* you see her doubt and try to convince herself. If you want to play a convincing path of Miranda growing less and less sure of Cerberus, then you need to play Jack's LM and the conflict after this scene. In this one, she's Cerberus. 100%.

I don't agree.

To me she appears conviced because these arguments are in accord with what she believes in.
I don't say that she lost her faith in Cerberus during that scene, I say that she want to believe that she's still in the right place even with the arguments of shepard, what happened on Pragia, and TIM's action during the collector ship mission.

I always play Pragia mission before this conversation.
But I play overlord after this conversation.

Every time I have this conversation in mind I can't stop thinking to the moment when she told to Jocob : "I'm never wrong".
Like I said before, Miranda should not show her doubts to Shepard because it's not his buiseness. But I also think she would not admit she could have been wrong until she's sure that she made a mistake. Like during the LM : she doesn't want to believe that Nicket is a traitor until she sees him with Eclpse Mercs.

Bingo! I still think that Niket's issue wasn't harped on because we "heard" reasoning; however, she could have shot Niket point-blank nqa! However, you get the Collector Base complaint again.

[Ieldra]

Regarding Oriana:
I'd like something surprising. For instance like this:

While on a mission with Miranda, she listens to some communication and finds out that Oriana is in the same location. We try to get to her and find her trying to fight her way out of some predicament. Surprisingly, she makes a very good showing of herself and it's unclear if our help was needed. The sisters confront each other, Miranda being upset that Oriana hasn't stayed in the safe location she left her in. Oriana says she knew about the Reapers by following Miranda's electronic tracks and hacking into some files, and just couldn't stay at home while others risked their life for the galaxy. Or did Miranda think Oriana wouldn't be able to learn as fast as she? Miranda is really upset, saying she shouldn't have spoken to her back on Illium. Oriana replies that she's thankful for what Miranda did, but now's not the time for a normal life. We then have the opportunity to either convince Oriana to go home, or to convince Miranda that it's Oriana's decision what to do with her life and how to risk it. However it goes, the sisters embrace, promise each other to be careful, then Oriana goes off.

Later, if we convinced Oriana to go home, we find out that her home planet has been harvested by the Reapers. If we let her go her own way, she survives and we meet her again in the epilogue.

This would give a new and interesting slant to the sisters' relationship. Oriana gets some character development and Miranda's protectiveness of her sister is challenged.

Edit:
The only disadvantage of this scenario is that it depends on Miranda having spoken with Oriana. Renegades would again get the short stick, so some modifications would be necessary to adapt it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 juin 2011 - 06:34 .