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[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I'm surprised no one has noticed that I edited my post about "Miranda as a professor", or has acknowledged that it was just a suggestion.

Has everyone forgotten how vocal I am about Miranda repurposing Cerberus?

That's kind of the problem though. There aren't enough variables to make Shepard the type of person who would emphatically agree with that. I think that inevitably they would not stick together very long after the war. There would feel like an element is lost since the relationship wouldn't be the same. Shepard can't be commander when he's living in a normal place trying to live a normal life. And that's all he would have since a Mirandaified Cerberus doesn't look like it would have a place for Shepard.

AgitatedLemon wrote...
Ain't nuttin' wrong with a bit of cheese in a relationship.

...That's what kills a relationship.

How would a Miranda led Cerberus not have a place for Shepard? He could co-lead, or head the army, or do something else. Or he could become an advisor to Miranda, at the very least. As smart and as calculating as Miranda is, she's bound to miss a few things.

And cheese doesn't kill relationships if used properly.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 20 janvier 2012 - 02:38 .

[Harshfact]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

People (including fictional characters) change. Real people can change abruptly. For reasons not fully understood by me we deny fictional characters that right. Nevertheless they can change as well if the change follows a logical and natural progression. So just because ME2-3 Miranda can't settle down doesn't mean ME3+10yrs Miranda won't.

The university professor thing isn't too far off. Most people do go bigger but it's not completely unfeasible. Besides this is still fiction we're talking about. And there is one very famous university professor that isn't just a dry academic: Indiana Jones *whistles theme:whistle:

One thing I would amend is that instead of joining an existing institution, she would likely found her own, with an emphasis on some practical and well.... ass-kicking skills. Less dried up academic and more Professor X.

Huh.

Good points you bring up.

And for everyone else, when I brought up "Miranda as a professor" I wasn't implying that she'd be a boring and lame "realistic" teacher. She'd be able to do stuff behind the scenes, like operate within Cerberus, if it still exists and has been repurposed. A Professor X or Indy- type schtick would be really cool actually.

I'm not sure why people need their fictional characters to remain the same for all of eternity.

it's not "remaining same for eternity it's just the fact that HOW they will be pulled off. a good writer is the type of writer that can blow you away with how far he can take a character and make him/her grow while basic essence remaining the same

[AgitatedLemon]

Harshfact wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

People (including fictional characters) change. Real people can change abruptly. For reasons not fully understood by me we deny fictional characters that right. Nevertheless they can change as well if the change follows a logical and natural progression. So just because ME2-3 Miranda can't settle down doesn't mean ME3+10yrs Miranda won't.

The university professor thing isn't too far off. Most people do go bigger but it's not completely unfeasible. Besides this is still fiction we're talking about. And there is one very famous university professor that isn't just a dry academic: Indiana Jones *whistles theme:whistle:

One thing I would amend is that instead of joining an existing institution, she would likely found her own, with an emphasis on some practical and well.... ass-kicking skills. Less dried up academic and more Professor X.

Huh.

Good points you bring up.

And for everyone else, when I brought up "Miranda as a professor" I wasn't implying that she'd be a boring and lame "realistic" teacher. She'd be able to do stuff behind the scenes, like operate within Cerberus, if it still exists and has been repurposed. A Professor X or Indy- type schtick would be really cool actually.

I'm not sure why people need their fictional characters to remain the same for all of eternity.

it's not "remaining same for eternity it's just the fact that HOW they will be pulled off. a good writer is the type of writer that can blow you away with how far he can take a character and make him/her grow while basic essence remaining the same

I'm not even going to bother continuing.

Way to miss the point.

[jtav]

You can be quite pro-Cerberus, at least as Miranda understands them, even telling her that you wish her people had made the offer. And I don't see a problem with Shepard being the supportive boyfriend to her.

[CrutchCricket]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Ain't nuttin' wrong with a bit of cheese in a relationship.

A bit of... Richard Cheese?

[android654]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Intelligence and feelings have nothing to do with each other. Different parts of the brain my friend.

And seriously, no room in an STG-like organization for Shepard? Come now, surely you jest.

I'm very serious. While the powers may change there isn't too much variabliltiy in the characters personality. I don't think a Paragon Shepard would work well with the by any means attitude if he can hope there's another way. A Renegade Shepard wouldn't be trusted by Miranda to undertake projects she thought to be sensitive which are usually the ones of importance. I can see a lot of clashing between this since the roles would be reversed and Shepard for the first time has to play second fiddle to Miranda and I don't think Miranda would step down or to the side, she values her sense of accomplishment too much.

[Harshfact]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Intelligence and feelings have nothing to do with each other. Different parts of the brain my friend.

And seriously, no room in an STG-like organization for Shepard? Come now, surely you jest.

Um...well if they all come from the same person/brain sooner or later there will be conflicts... Miranda is smart enough to know that her talented are wasted and she will be bored with all the ordinary stuff and rules ... it's one of the many reasons she's joined Cerbures to achieve the impossible whatever it takes not exaclty the kind of person i'd say go in a cheesy ending with shep

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...
And I don't see a problem with Shepard being the supportive boyfriend to her.

Of course you don't. It's him being more you don't seem to care for. Or at least acknowledge.

[schemata]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Intelligence and feelings have nothing to do with each other. Different parts of the brain my friend.

And seriously, no room in an STG-like organization for Shepard? Come now, surely you jest.

emotional intelligence is real

http://en.wikipedia....al_intelligence

[CrutchCricket]

android654 wrote...
I'm very serious. While the powers may change there isn't too much variabliltiy in the characters personality. I don't think a Paragon Shepard would work well with the by any means attitude if he can hope there's another way. A Renegade Shepard wouldn't be trusted by Miranda to undertake projects she thought to be sensitive which are usually the ones of importance. I can see a lot of clashing between this since the roles would be reversed and Shepard for the first time has to play second fiddle to Miranda and I don't think Miranda would step down or to the side, she values her sense of accomplishment too much.

Or does he? Are we considering all options here?

[android654]

CrutchCricket wrote...

jtav wrote...
And I don't see a problem with Shepard being the supportive boyfriend to her.

Of course you don't. It's him being more you don't seem to care for. Or at least acknowledge.

That's why TIW and Shepard wouldn't work. Those are two very large egos with a resume to match and you are essentially asking the bigger of the two to not even play second in command (I don't think any Shepard has the credentials to do this) when he's the person responsible for saving the galaxy. It would be a game of who's more humble, and if Shepard were to step down and submit I think Miranda would have to evaluate how she would view him after that. I believe that would be the beginning of the end for those two.

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...
I'm very serious. While the powers may change there isn't too much variabliltiy in the characters personality. I don't think a Paragon Shepard would work well with the by any means attitude if he can hope there's another way. A Renegade Shepard wouldn't be trusted by Miranda to undertake projects she thought to be sensitive which are usually the ones of importance. I can see a lot of clashing between this since the roles would be reversed and Shepard for the first time has to play second fiddle to Miranda and I don't think Miranda would step down or to the side, she values her sense of accomplishment too much.

Or does he? Are we considering all options here?

Innuendo?

Modifié par android654, 20 janvier 2012 - 02:48 .

[CrutchCricket]

schemata wrote...
emotional intelligence is real

http://en.wikipedia....al_intelligence

Interesting. I'll have to look more into it but from what I've seen so far it still sounds like reason controlling emotion while still being separate from it. But perhaps I was confusing words, interchanging reason with intelligence.

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Intelligence and feelings have nothing to do with each other. Different parts of the brain my friend.

And seriously, no room in an STG-like organization for Shepard? Come now, surely you jest.

I'm very serious. While the powers may change there isn't too much variabliltiy in the characters personality. I don't think a Paragon Shepard would work well with the by any means attitude if he can hope there's another way. A Renegade Shepard wouldn't be trusted by Miranda to undertake projects she thought to be sensitive which are usually the ones of importance. I can see a lot of clashing between this since the roles would be reversed and Shepard for the first time has to play second fiddle to Miranda and I don't think Miranda would step down or to the side, she values her sense of accomplishment too much.

Implying Miranda necessarily needs to remain "At all costs" while leading a repurposed Cerberus. The entire point of a repurposed Cerberus would be to show that they're capable of achieving results without the senseless cruelty TIM displayed, possibly even help the public image.

And renegade Shepard is "At all costs", so theoretically, wouldn't that be a perfect future?

[Harshfact]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Harshfact wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

People (including fictional characters) change. Real people can change abruptly. For reasons not fully understood by me we deny fictional characters that right. Nevertheless they can change as well if the change follows a logical and natural progression. So just because ME2-3 Miranda can't settle down doesn't mean ME3+10yrs Miranda won't.

The university professor thing isn't too far off. Most people do go bigger but it's not completely unfeasible. Besides this is still fiction we're talking about. And there is one very famous university professor that isn't just a dry academic: Indiana Jones *whistles theme:whistle:

One thing I would amend is that instead of joining an existing institution, she would likely found her own, with an emphasis on some practical and well.... ass-kicking skills. Less dried up academic and more Professor X.

Huh.

Good points you bring up.

And for everyone else, when I brought up "Miranda as a professor" I wasn't implying that she'd be a boring and lame "realistic" teacher. She'd be able to do stuff behind the scenes, like operate within Cerberus, if it still exists and has been repurposed. A Professor X or Indy- type schtick would be really cool actually.

I'm not sure why people need their fictional characters to remain the same for all of eternity.

it's not "remaining same for eternity it's just the fact that HOW they will be pulled off. a good writer is the type of writer that can blow you away with how far he can take a character and make him/her grow while basic essence remaining the same

I'm not even going to bother continuing.

Way to miss the point.

I don't see how i'm missing the point ? which in itself could be missing the point

but i was only commenting on "remaining the same for eternity" bit otherwise i sort of like the proffesor idea

[schemata]

CrutchCricket wrote...

schemata wrote...
emotional intelligence is real

http://en.wikipedia....al_intelligence

Interesting. I'll have to look more into it but from what I've seen so far it still sounds like reason controlling emotion while still being separate from it. But perhaps I was confusing words, interchanging reason with intelligence.

Should check this out
http://en.wikipedia....i/How_We_Decide

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

schemata wrote...
emotional intelligence is real

http://en.wikipedia....al_intelligence

Interesting. I'll have to look more into it but from what I've seen so far it still sounds like reason controlling emotion while still being separate from it. But perhaps I was confusing words, interchanging reason with intelligence.

Don't even bother.

EI is as controversial as abortion. It's best to treat it as if it doesn't exist.

[Harshfact]

CrutchCricket wrote...

schemata wrote...
emotional intelligence is real

http://en.wikipedia....al_intelligence

Interesting. I'll have to look more into it but from what I've seen so far it still sounds like reason controlling emotion while still being separate from it. But perhaps I was confusing words, interchanging reason with intelligence.

I don't thik we have come very close to a complete and perfect understanding of the Human mind so you can't be too wrong or right

[android654]

That's why TIW and Shepard wouldn't work. Those are two very large
egos with a resume to match and you are essentially asking the bigger of
the two to not even play second in command (I don't think any Shepard
has the credentials to do this) when he's the person responsible for
saving the galaxy. It would be a game of who's more humble, and if
Shepard were to step down and submit I think Miranda would have to
evaluate how she would view him after that. I believe that would be the
beginning of the end for those two.

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Intelligence and feelings have nothing to do with each other. Different parts of the brain my friend.

And seriously, no room in an STG-like organization for Shepard? Come now, surely you jest.

I'm very serious. While the powers may change there isn't too much variabliltiy in the characters personality. I don't think a Paragon Shepard would work well with the by any means attitude if he can hope there's another way. A Renegade Shepard wouldn't be trusted by Miranda to undertake projects she thought to be sensitive which are usually the ones of importance. I can see a lot of clashing between this since the roles would be reversed and Shepard for the first time has to play second fiddle to Miranda and I don't think Miranda would step down or to the side, she values her sense of accomplishment too much.

Implying Miranda necessarily needs to remain "At all costs" while leading a repurposed Cerberus. The entire point of a repurposed Cerberus would be to show that they're capable of achieving results without the senseless cruelty TIM displayed, possibly even help the public image.

And renegade Shepard is "At all costs", so theoretically, wouldn't that be a perfect future?

Miranda is the poster child for results by any means. She projects this from the very beginning and even up until the end. I don't see anything that would suggest that she would do a 180 and take Cerberus public and make it people friendly. I thought the repurposing was to work for humans not against other species as it has been.

Already answered that above. There are two many opportunities to clash for the top position. Even if he wouldn't say it, it would be something that would bother Shepard considering his history thus far.

Modifié par android654, 20 janvier 2012 - 02:52 .

[CrutchCricket]

android654 wrote...
That's why TIW and Shepard wouldn't work. Those are two very large egos with a resume to match and you are essentially asking the bigger of the two to not even play second in command (I don't think any Shepard has the credentials to do this) when he's the person responsible for saving the galaxy. It would be a game of who's more humble, and if Shepard were to step down and submit I think Miranda would have to evaluate how she would view him after that. I believe that would be the beginning of the end for those two.

Not everything's a conflict. And frankly I don't think you give either of them enough credit if you think they'll jeopardize fixing/improving the galaxy over a pissing contest. Any friction would come from genuine disagreements over certain issues, not who's top dog. The question then becomes how many things will they disagree on which will vary by Shepards. But the whole thing is not inconcievable.

android654 wrote...

Innuendo?

If you like. I was actually referring to the above.

[AgitatedLemon]

Harshfact wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Harshfact wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

People (including fictional characters) change. Real people can change abruptly. For reasons not fully understood by me we deny fictional characters that right. Nevertheless they can change as well if the change follows a logical and natural progression. So just because ME2-3 Miranda can't settle down doesn't mean ME3+10yrs Miranda won't.

The university professor thing isn't too far off. Most people do go bigger but it's not completely unfeasible. Besides this is still fiction we're talking about. And there is one very famous university professor that isn't just a dry academic: Indiana Jones *whistles theme:whistle:

One thing I would amend is that instead of joining an existing institution, she would likely found her own, with an emphasis on some practical and well.... ass-kicking skills. Less dried up academic and more Professor X.

Huh.

Good points you bring up.

And for everyone else, when I brought up "Miranda as a professor" I wasn't implying that she'd be a boring and lame "realistic" teacher. She'd be able to do stuff behind the scenes, like operate within Cerberus, if it still exists and has been repurposed. A Professor X or Indy- type schtick would be really cool actually.

I'm not sure why people need their fictional characters to remain the same for all of eternity.

it's not "remaining same for eternity it's just the fact that HOW they will be pulled off. a good writer is the type of writer that can blow you away with how far he can take a character and make him/her grow while basic essence remaining the same

I'm not even going to bother continuing.

Way to miss the point.

I don't see how i'm missing the point ? which in itself could be missing the point

but i was only commenting on "remaining the same for eternity" bit otherwise i sort of like the proffesor idea

"Pulled off" has nothing to do with it. If a character changes, they change. If a person changes, they change. Like Cricket said, people in real life often change quite abruptly, as can a fictional character.

Picture Miranda's development over the course of the game. She goes from a pure Cerberus loyalist to outright resigning.

If you bother to romance her, she opens her emotional side a bit. Same thing if you let her talk to Oriana.

Neither of these break her as a character, they expand her.

Get what I'm saying?

Change is possible, and it's sometimes a good thing.

[jtav]

I'm not imagining Matt as directly involved in her work at all. It's not his field or his passion. He'll be happy to growl at the right people if she finds it necessary, but the N7 part of his life is over and he's glad to see it gone. He defeated the Reapers and it's time to put down his sword.

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

I'm not imagining Matt as directly involved in her work at all. It's not his field or his passion. He'll be happy to growl at the right people if she finds it necessary, but the N7 part of his life is over and he's glad to see it gone. He defeated the Reapers and it's time to put down his sword.

Kind of like a dog? I fully respect your right to take your versions of these characters where ever you choose but to be honest, I'm having a hard time imagining how your Matt defeated the Reapers, or even stopped Saren.

[android654]

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...
That's why TIW and Shepard wouldn't work. Those are two very large egos with a resume to match and you are essentially asking the bigger of the two to not even play second in command (I don't think any Shepard has the credentials to do this) when he's the person responsible for saving the galaxy. It would be a game of who's more humble, and if Shepard were to step down and submit I think Miranda would have to evaluate how she would view him after that. I believe that would be the beginning of the end for those two.

Not everything's a conflict. And frankly I don't think you give either of them enough credit if you think they'll jeopardize fixing/improving the galaxy over a pissing contest. Any friction would come from genuine disagreements over certain issues, not who's top dog. The question then becomes how many things will they disagree on which will vary by Shepards. But the whole thing is not inconcievable.

android654 wrote...

Innuendo?

If you like. I was actually referring to the above.

Its not a pissing contest thats over things of no consequence.  This would be like having (bare with the metaphor for a moment) two top CEO's from 2 fortune 400 companies date at the height of both of their careers and suddenly the market closes on one of their companies and they're out of work. That's essentially where Shepard is after ME3. The war's over his pupose for the moment is fulfilled and what does he do now? Find another profession? Rejoin the Alliance? There are so many things he could consider but he has to do just that, consider it. Miranda is on a completely different speed. She already knows what to do, and it comes down to one thing does she slow down or does he speed up? Someone needs to compensate for the other and seeing how Shepard's life's been a stressful hell for 3 games and Miranda doesn't know how to slow down it would present a very real problem for the strength of their relationship.


That's a shame I had pictures with a blood covered bathroom that I was hoping I could use for said innuendo.  *Sigh* I guess I'll put them away for now.

Modifié par android654, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:01 .

[AgitatedLemon]

@android

At the beginning of the game, she was pure "At all costs".

Going with progression, she's still determined, but as pointed out by her dialogues, she has lines that she won't cross if she doesn't have to. "[...] interrogation, but this is just senseless cruelty". If it's absolutely necessary, she'll step on people's toes to get what she needs. I can agree with this, as can my Shepard.

And you must have missed the glaring "maybe" in my comment about improving the public image of Cerberus.

And did you forget that all of this was purely hypothetical, headcanon discussion? No need to get pissy at someone else for what they envision, especially if it isn't going to be documented.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:03 .

[AgitatedLemon]

jtav wrote...

I'm not imagining Matt as directly involved in her work at all. It's not his field or his passion. He'll be happy to growl at the right people if she finds it necessary, but the N7 part of his life is over and he's glad to see it gone. He defeated the Reapers and it's time to put down his sword.

How do you mean, "growl at the right people"?

The right people?