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[android654]

I know it's hypothetical which is why I'm stating my opinion? Not seeing the conflict here.

[jtav]

Is that not a common expression where you live? And very simply. Hurt something that he considers his and you are dead. Every single principle goes out the window. Don't mistake a desire to paint instead of shoot for weakness.

[CrutchCricket]

android654 wrote...
Its not a pissing contest thats over things of no consequence.  This would be like having (bare with the metaphor for a moment) two top CEO's from 2 fortune 400 companies date at the height of both of their careers and suddenly the market closes on one of their companies and they're out of work. That's essentially where Shepard is after ME3. The war's over his pupose for the moment is fulfilled and what does he do now? Find another profession? Rejoin the Alliance? There are so many things he could consider but he has to do just that, consider it. Miranda is on a completely different speed. She already knows what to do, and it comes down to one thing does she slow down or does he speed up? Someone needs to compensate for the other and seeing how Shepard's life's been a stressful hell for 3 games and Miranda doesn't know how to slow down it would present a very real problem for the strength of their relationship.

Why is Shepard out of a job but not Miranda? Did some divine wind bestow her leadership of Cerberus once TIM is out of the picture? Did she inherit his powers Highlander style? Must there be only one?

At the end of the war, they're both heroes and both out on their own (although technically Shepard might still be with the Alliance). They'd both be starting in the same place with building a human STG or what have you. It's not one CEO being fired. It's two of them joining to start a new company.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:06 .

[Harshfact]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Harshfact wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Harshfact wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

People (including fictional characters) change. Real people can change abruptly. For reasons not fully understood by me we deny fictional characters that right. Nevertheless they can change as well if the change follows a logical and natural progression. So just because ME2-3 Miranda can't settle down doesn't mean ME3+10yrs Miranda won't.

The university professor thing isn't too far off. Most people do go bigger but it's not completely unfeasible. Besides this is still fiction we're talking about. And there is one very famous university professor that isn't just a dry academic: Indiana Jones *whistles theme:whistle:

One thing I would amend is that instead of joining an existing institution, she would likely found her own, with an emphasis on some practical and well.... ass-kicking skills. Less dried up academic and more Professor X.

Huh.

Good points you bring up.

And for everyone else, when I brought up "Miranda as a professor" I wasn't implying that she'd be a boring and lame "realistic" teacher. She'd be able to do stuff behind the scenes, like operate within Cerberus, if it still exists and has been repurposed. A Professor X or Indy- type schtick would be really cool actually.

I'm not sure why people need their fictional characters to remain the same for all of eternity.

it's not "remaining same for eternity it's just the fact that HOW they will be pulled off. a good writer is the type of writer that can blow you away with how far he can take a character and make him/her grow while basic essence remaining the same

I'm not even going to bother continuing.

Way to miss the point.

I don't see how i'm missing the point ? which in itself could be missing the point

but i was only commenting on "remaining the same for eternity" bit otherwise i sort of like the proffesor idea

"Pulled off" has nothing to do with it. If a character changes, they change. If a person changes, they change. Like Cricket said, people in real life often change quite abruptly, as can a fictional character.

Picture Miranda's development over the course of the game. She goes from a pure Cerberus loyalist to outright resigning.

If you bother to romance her, she opens her emotional side a bit. Same thing if you let her talk to Oriana.

Neither of these break her as a character, they expand her.

Get what I'm saying?

Change is possible, and it's sometimes a good thing.

I guess we come from different perspectives then since i have a more pessimistic view of "change" and how do you mean 'pulled off" has nothing to do with it ? pulled off is referring to how the change is actually written and i don't assume the change can happen on it's own ? i've always seen people such as Miranda far more unique to fit into the standards of the ordinary life and behavior granted if you do try to Romance her she will open up to you to an extent and might even approve of the concept of Romancing while she might not at the start however i don't think Miranda will "stop" supporting Cerberus yes she did tell TIM to shove it but that's always been viewed by me as she saw at least a bit of reason and little more Loyalty to shep or well an excuse for the writer to keep her around however that's a good development either way but i still see her as too smart to have a commitment to ordinary life however the whole undercover professor does seem more in character. but either way with ME 3 we need a closure to the relationship and even if the writers are going to o a far-fetched conclusion with good writing it can happen

Modifié par Harshfact, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:08 .

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

I know it's hypothetical which is why I'm stating my opinion? Not seeing the conflict here.

Then why exactly are you speaking to me as if my personal wanting something to happen is factually wrong?

[CrutchCricket]

What the hell? Style sheet fail. Harshfact see if you can edit your post and fix it.

Edit: Thanks.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:07 .

[AgitatedLemon]

jtav wrote...

Is that not a common expression where you live? And very simply. Hurt something that he considers his and you are dead. Every single principle goes out the window. Don't mistake a desire to paint instead of shoot for weakness.

Where I live, no. I have never heard that expression, to be honest.

But yes, that's how my Shepard is as well. I'm somewhat like that in real life too.

By "settle down", I wasn't implying "Do nothing for the rest of time".

If someone threatens or otherwise hurts his family or friends, they will pay. Dearly. Especially if it's Miranda.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:39 .

[android654]

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...
Its not a pissing contest thats over things of no consequence.  This would be like having (bare with the metaphor for a moment) two top CEO's from 2 fortune 400 companies date at the height of both of their careers and suddenly the market closes on one of their companies and they're out of work. That's essentially where Shepard is after ME3. The war's over his pupose for the moment is fulfilled and what does he do now? Find another profession? Rejoin the Alliance? There are so many things he could consider but he has to do just that, consider it. Miranda is on a completely different speed. She already knows what to do, and it comes down to one thing does she slow down or does he speed up? Someone needs to compensate for the other and seeing how Shepard's life's been a stressful hell for 3 games and Miranda doesn't know how to slow down it would present a very real problem for the strength of their relationship.

Why is Shepard out of a job but not Miranda? Did some divine wind bestow her leadership of Cerberus once TIM is out of the picture? Did she inherit his powers Highlander style? Must there be only one?

At the end of the war, they're both heroes and both out on their own (although technically Shepard might still be with the Alliance). They'd both be starting in the same place with building a human STG or what have you. It's not once CEO being fired. It's two of them joining to start a new company.

Totally misread that analogy. The CEO I was comparring him to is out of a job not because his company is gone but the service his company offers is no longer needed. Repears are gone and Shepard has no need to lead that life so he has to reevalute what to do from here.

Miranda was doing something before ME2 she's busy in ME3 and she wont stop after. Paragon Shepard has made it very clear that he wants to stop after the Reapers this will definitly clash with Miranda.

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

I know it's hypothetical which is why I'm stating my opinion? Not seeing the conflict here.

Then why exactly are you speaking to me as if my personal wanting something to happen is factually wrong?

Just saying how I can't see that from how the characters were written so far.

[CrutchCricket]

android654 wrote...
Totally misread that analogy. The CEO I was comparring him to is out of a job not because his company is gone but the service his company offers is no longer needed. Repears are gone and Shepard has no need to lead that life so he has to reevalute what to do from here.

Miranda was doing something before ME2 she's busy in ME3 and she wont stop after. Paragon Shepard has made it very clear that he wants to stop after the Reapers this will definitly clash with Miranda.

Not that the reason for termination matters that much, but even so, Shepard is not just "The Reaper Killer". He's a very, very good killer marine. Even if he choose to leave military life he has plenty of skills he could put to use elsewhere but in similar fields.

And again ME2-3 Miranda said she doesn't want to stop. 10-20 years after, who knows? Maybe she changes her tune.

[Harshfact]

android654 wrote...


Miranda was doing something before ME2 she's busy in ME3 and she wont stop after. Paragon Shepard has made it very clear that he wants to stop after the Reapers this will definitly clash with Miranda.

But i think every human would state that after being faced with a race of machines that come around every millions of years and wipe out everyone especially when the only peole who believe you are your close friends and a group such as Cerberus doesn't neccsary mean he'll stop

Modifié par Harshfact, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:19 .

[jtav]

I was addressing Crutch, Lemon, but what I mean is that he's perfectly willing to intimidate people for her sake. Beyond that, IRL I'm deeply pacifistic. There's such a thing as a just war, but the ultimate goal is to defeat the enemy and return to normal life. Rebuild the world. The last step in the hero's journey is freedom to live. Matt and Miranda both get that in my headcanon.

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...
Totally misread that analogy. The CEO I was comparring him to is out of a job not because his company is gone but the service his company offers is no longer needed. Repears are gone and Shepard has no need to lead that life so he has to reevalute what to do from here.

Miranda was doing something before ME2 she's busy in ME3 and she wont stop after. Paragon Shepard has made it very clear that he wants to stop after the Reapers this will definitly clash with Miranda.

Not that the reason for termination matters that much, but even so, Shepard is not just "The Reaper Killer". He's a very, very good killer marine. Even if he choose to leave military life he has plenty of skills he could put to use elsewhere but in similar fields.

And again ME2-3 Miranda said she doesn't want to stop. 10-20 years after, who knows? Maybe she changes her tune.

Hmm...

I could RP a Shepard that continues to stay connected to Garrus, and mentors him, possibly even working with him on something similar to Garrus' team on Omega. Shepard would lead the team, and Garrus would be his XO.

Of course, Miranda would head the rebuilt Cerberus, and she could call in Shepard whenever she needed his assistance. 

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:17 .

[android654]

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...
Totally misread that analogy. The CEO I was comparring him to is out of a job not because his company is gone but the service his company offers is no longer needed. Repears are gone and Shepard has no need to lead that life so he has to reevalute what to do from here.

Miranda was doing something before ME2 she's busy in ME3 and she wont stop after. Paragon Shepard has made it very clear that he wants to stop after the Reapers this will definitly clash with Miranda.

Not that the reason for termination matters that much, but even so, Shepard is not just "The Reaper Killer". He's a very, very good killer marine. Even if he choose to leave military life he has plenty of skills he could put to use elsewhere but in similar fields.

And again ME2-3 Miranda said she doesn't want to stop. 10-20 years after, who knows? Maybe she changes her tune.

But going by Paragon Shepard he can not wait to stop. Good killer or not, Paragon Shepard clearly wants to stop and settle down somewhere. Even little blue children with Liara, so more killing is not on a Paragon Shepard's mind.

[AgitatedLemon]

jtav wrote...

I was addressing Crutch, Lemon, but what I mean is that he's perfectly willing to intimidate people for her sake. Beyond that, IRL I'm deeply pacifistic. There's such a thing as a just war, but the ultimate goal is to defeat the enemy and return to normal life. Rebuild the world. The last step in the hero's journey is freedom to live. Matt and Miranda both get that in my headcanon.

... You need to make that apparent. Like, quote tags or something.

[MisterJB]

android654 wrote...
Totally misread that analogy. The CEO I was comparring him to is out of a job not because his company is gone but the service his company offers is no longer needed. Repears are gone and Shepard has no need to lead that life so he has to reevalute what to do from here.
Miranda was doing something before ME2 she's busy in ME3 and she wont stop after. Paragon Shepard has made it very clear that he wants to stop after the Reapers this will definitly clash with Miranda.

You keep constraining Shepard with the damn morality system. Do all Paragons have to want to chop wood after the Reaper war is over? Here's a tought:

Shepard in ME1 discussing with Charles Saracino. Have Shepard claim that he believes humans should work with aliens. Paragon.
Then, in ME2, when Tela Vasir accuses of working with terrorists, have him say "The Council wasn't looking out for human interests. Somebody had to" Renegade.

There, you've just made a more complex Shepard. Hell, in ME1 you could discuss political views with Ashley and now you're claiming Shepard is a one pony trick who will suddenly be lost in the Galaxy just because the Reapers are gone?

[jtav]

You do realize you're not forced to go 100% P/R.

[schemata]

android654 wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...
Totally misread that analogy. The CEO I was comparring him to is out of a job not because his company is gone but the service his company offers is no longer needed. Repears are gone and Shepard has no need to lead that life so he has to reevalute what to do from here.

Miranda was doing something before ME2 she's busy in ME3 and she wont stop after. Paragon Shepard has made it very clear that he wants to stop after the Reapers this will definitly clash with Miranda.

Not that the reason for termination matters that much, but even so, Shepard is not just "The Reaper Killer". He's a very, very good killer marine. Even if he choose to leave military life he has plenty of skills he could put to use elsewhere but in similar fields.

And again ME2-3 Miranda said she doesn't want to stop. 10-20 years after, who knows? Maybe she changes her tune.

But going by Paragon Shepard he can not wait to stop. Good killer or not, Paragon Shepard clearly wants to stop and settle down somewhere. Even little blue children with Liara, so more killing is not on a Paragon Shepard's mind.

Your para shep anyway.  For an almost blank slate you do choose the dialogue options and Ive never once heard anything about settling down- even on my para.

[android654]

MisterJB wrote...

android654 wrote...
Totally misread that analogy. The CEO I was comparring him to is out of a job not because his company is gone but the service his company offers is no longer needed. Repears are gone and Shepard has no need to lead that life so he has to reevalute what to do from here.
Miranda was doing something before ME2 she's busy in ME3 and she wont stop after. Paragon Shepard has made it very clear that he wants to stop after the Reapers this will definitly clash with Miranda.

You keep constraining Shepard with the damn morality system. Do all Paragons have to want to chop wood after the Reaper war is over? Here's a tought:

Shepard in ME1 discussing with Charles Saracino. Have Shepard claim that he believes humans should work with aliens. Paragon.
Then, in ME2, when Tela Vasir accuses of working with terrorists, have him say "The Council wasn't looking out for human interests. Somebody had to" Renegade.

There, you've just made a more complex Shepard. Hell, in ME1 you could discuss political views with Ashley and now you're claiming Shepard is a one pony trick who will suddenly be lost in the Galaxy just because the Reapers are gone?

By selecting a piece of dialogue here and there? The whole point of the PAragon/Renegade system is to further build options and a reputation in either spectrum. If you're paragon in ME2 you have a few places where you're doing the right thing for now, but you want to stop soon.

[Collider]

The system is wrong. Plainly.

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...
Totally misread that analogy. The CEO I was comparring him to is out of a job not because his company is gone but the service his company offers is no longer needed. Repears are gone and Shepard has no need to lead that life so he has to reevalute what to do from here.

Miranda was doing something before ME2 she's busy in ME3 and she wont stop after. Paragon Shepard has made it very clear that he wants to stop after the Reapers this will definitly clash with Miranda.

Not that the reason for termination matters that much, but even so, Shepard is not just "The Reaper Killer". He's a very, very good killer marine. Even if he choose to leave military life he has plenty of skills he could put to use elsewhere but in similar fields.

And again ME2-3 Miranda said she doesn't want to stop. 10-20 years after, who knows? Maybe she changes her tune.

But going by Paragon Shepard he can not wait to stop. Good killer or not, Paragon Shepard clearly wants to stop and settle down somewhere. Even little blue children with Liara, so more killing is not on a Paragon Shepard's mind.

There are a lot of variables that conflict with this.

Not every paragon Shepard is the same. Not every paragon Shepard is 100% paragon. I go like 95% paragon and 5% renegade, depending on choices.

Or who's to say that Shepard won't change his tone by the end of ME3, where he feels obligated to protect the galaxy, because he (for whatever reason) feels that he needs to?

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:20 .

[jtav]

Again, you do not have to be 100% one way or the other. Heck, Mat's got his share of Renegade points, and I based him on Captain America.

[AgitatedLemon]

schemata wrote...

android654 wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...
Totally misread that analogy. The CEO I was comparring him to is out of a job not because his company is gone but the service his company offers is no longer needed. Repears are gone and Shepard has no need to lead that life so he has to reevalute what to do from here.

Miranda was doing something before ME2 she's busy in ME3 and she wont stop after. Paragon Shepard has made it very clear that he wants to stop after the Reapers this will definitly clash with Miranda.

Not that the reason for termination matters that much, but even so, Shepard is not just "The Reaper Killer". He's a very, very good killer marine. Even if he choose to leave military life he has plenty of skills he could put to use elsewhere but in similar fields.

And again ME2-3 Miranda said she doesn't want to stop. 10-20 years after, who knows? Maybe she changes her tune.

But going by Paragon Shepard he can not wait to stop. Good killer or not, Paragon Shepard clearly wants to stop and settle down somewhere. Even little blue children with Liara, so more killing is not on a Paragon Shepard's mind.

Your para shep anyway.  For an almost blank slate you do choose the dialogue options and Ive never once heard anything about settling down- even on my para.

On the debrief with Grunt after his loyalty mission, pick the "It has to end soon" option.

Grunt comes back with the equivalent of "F**k that".

[MisterJB]

android654 wrote...
By selecting a piece of dialogue here and there? The whole point of the PAragon/Renegade system is to further build options and a reputation in either spectrum. If you're paragon in ME2 you have a few places where you're doing the right thing for now, but you want to stop soon.

If I don't pick the options where Shepard says that he wants to stop, then that simply means that my Shepard doesn't want to stop.

It's called being a Paragade or a Renegon.

Modifié par MisterJB, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:23 .