82210 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

android654 wrote...

We can hypothesize about that but there's not to suggest it now. And while you can be 60/40 or 82/18 in one of the two, but it does affect your options in dialogue and then propels you further in the field your higher in.

I think you guys are giving Shepard depth that writers didn't intend Her/Him to have. There's more depth to the crewmates but Shepard's intentions aren't as elaborate as we'd like him to be.

And I think you are understimating Shepard.
For example, in ME1 when Rear Admiral Mikalovich wants to inspect the Normandy, the options are not simply a Yes/No. You can pick the first Renegade option and then pick the Paragon option and while that allows the admiral to inspect the ship, it is on Shepard's terms and the admiral actually acknowledge this.
In ME2, they screwed up Shepard. Too little roleplaying options but it seems that the writers noticed this mistake and are working on fixing it. They have even claimed that there will be a third, more gray morality system.

[android654]

CrutchCricket wrote...

jtav wrote...

I was addressing Crutch, Lemon, but what I mean is that he's perfectly willing to intimidate people for her sake. Beyond that, IRL I'm deeply pacifistic. There's such a thing as a just war, but the ultimate goal is to defeat the enemy and return to normal life. Rebuild the world. The last step in the hero's journey is freedom to live. Matt and Miranda both get that in my headcanon.

Did not realize you were talking to me. I get what you meant by the expression and the idea didn't bother me. I think any of us (i.e. our Shepards) here would glady waste anyone who was giving Miranda grief.

My problem is that you don't have him do anything else. Ok he paints, I have nothing against artists. But this is twice you've described him simply as "the supportive boyfriend". My issue is why is he just the supportive boyfriend? I'm not saying he has to kill people for the rest of his life. I wouldn't care if he never touches a weapon again. But where is his contribution to "rebuilding the world"?

My beef is that you rally and rant so adamantly against Miranda simply becoming the Chick or the stereotypical "housewife" (and rightly so I might add) and yet it would seem you then turn around and do the same thing to Shepard. She's all influential and wielding the power and he's an inconsequential chump with his head in the clouds who is merely "supportive". This double standard annoys the hell out of me because like I said before you could not pull this **** in reverse. If I started writing a story where Shepard goes on to be a Councilor or something and Miranda is the loving wife who teaches fencing on the weekends, I don't think I'd ever get this thread's collective hands off my throat.

So please, let's just keep it equal. Like I said you have the right to write (lol) as you wish. You want to make your Matt Mass Effect's Da Vinci go ahead. But at least acknowledge the possibility of a Shepard-Miranda team running the galaxy or what have you, in some other way.

Not trying to put words in her mouth, but have you read Portrait? All of your criticisms are pretty much answered there.

[CrutchCricket]

Reaper=/= Protoss Archon.
You don't join with one person forever. You get melted down into Reaper Shakes with a few other million people and you become their go-juice.

[AgitatedLemon]

@Crutch, look on page 1130, right after your 2nd post on that page.

[Swaggacide]

@AgitatedLemon
i like your face

[Swaggacide]

Modifié par Swaggacide, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:41 .

[CrutchCricket]

android654 wrote...
Not trying to put words in her mouth, but have you read Portrait? All of your criticisms are pretty much answered there.

No I haven't, the idea being that if I ever get off my ass and write my own (I have plenty of ideas but lack the commitment) I don't want to be inadvertedly influenced/plagarize. If what you say is true and she's just been misrepresenting her own work, I'm willing to retract my statements.

[AgitatedLemon]

Swaggacide wrote...

@AgitatedLemon
i like your face

Yours too.

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...
Not trying to put words in her mouth, but have you read Portrait? All of your criticisms are pretty much answered there.

No I haven't, the idea being that if I ever get off my ass and write my own (I have plenty of ideas but lack the commitment) I don't want to be inadvertedly influenced/plagarize. If what you say is true and she's just been misrepresenting her own work, I'm willing to retract my statements.

Just read the back and forth jtav and I had.

I gave you directions earlier on this same page.

[CrutchCricket]

This?:

AgitatedLemon wrote...
Where I live, no. I have never heard that expression, to be honest.

But yes, that's how my Shepard is as well. I'm somewhat like that in real life too.

By "settle down", I wasn't implying "Do nothing for the rest of time".

If someone threatens or otherwise hurts his family or friends, they will pay. Dearly. Especially if it's Miranda.

Beyond the obvious I'm not sure what you're pointing me to.

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

This?:

AgitatedLemon wrote...
Where I live, no. I have never heard that expression, to be honest.

But yes, that's how my Shepard is as well. I'm somewhat like that in real life too.

By "settle down", I wasn't implying "Do nothing for the rest of time".

If someone threatens or otherwise hurts his family or friends, they will pay. Dearly. Especially if it's Miranda.

Beyond the obvious I'm not sure what you're pointing me to.

You have to read the whole thing, not just 1 comment.

F**k it I'll summarize:

Shepard can settle down. Nice. Painting nude Miranda's. I'm down with that.

Just because Shepard is "settled down" doesn't mean he can't go and help Miranda if she ever calls on him. I'm down with that.

If anyone ever were to f**k with Miranda or any of Shepard's friends, they will regret it. I'm down with that.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:47 .

[schemata]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Reaper=/= Protoss Archon.
You don't join with one person forever. You get melted down into Reaper Shakes with a few other million people and you become their go-juice.

Common misconception. We actually don't know how the reapers work. They need grey goop to get it started sure, we know that from the end of ME2. However, we also know the reapers internal personalities share memories. Perhaps somewhere in there, there is a alpha body of the species. Perhaps with a hole in the head similiar to the matrix people who are plugged in. And in this reaper is Miri and shep, immortal. awesome. Both miri and sheps spirits and mind join, b/c their so strong willed, anyone who boards their ship will take on their memories, and their way of thinking. Their spirit soaks the vessel of the reaper that much. Then throw in a little imagination that they still have bodies they can use so we can still empathize. bam, bad ass.

[AgitatedLemon]

schemata wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Reaper=/= Protoss Archon.
You don't join with one person forever. You get melted down into Reaper Shakes with a few other million people and you become their go-juice.

Common misconception. We actually don't know how the reapers work. They need grey goop to get it started sure, we know that from the end of ME2. However, we also know the reapers internal personalities share memories. Perhaps somewhere in there, there is a alpha body of the species. Perhaps with a hole in the head similiar to the matrix people who are plugged in. And in this reaper is Miri and shep, immortal. awesome. Both miri and sheps spirits and mind join, b/c their so strong willed, anyone who boards their ship will take on their memories, and their way of thinking. Their spirit soaks the vessel of the reaper that much. Then throw in a little imagination that they still have bodies they can use so we can still empathize. bam, bad ass.

This isn't Peter Pan.

When you're melted down to become a Reaper, you're-

1. Dead
2. Take on their way of thinking
3. Used more for mass than anything else
4. Personality is stripped away

[CrutchCricket]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

F**k it I'll summarize:

Shepard can settle down. Nice. Painting nude Miranda's. I'm down with that.

Just because Shepard is "settled down" doesn't mean he can't go and help Miranda if she ever calls on him. I'm down with that.

If anyone ever were to f**k with Miranda or any of Shepard's friends, they will regret it. I'm down with that.

That's nice. My question was why isn't he doing anything else besides nothing and helping Miranda when she needs it? Where is his contribution to the rebuilding effort? More to the point where is his continued significance to the galaxy?

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:50 .

[schemata]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

schemata wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Reaper=/= Protoss Archon.
You don't join with one person forever. You get melted down into Reaper Shakes with a few other million people and you become their go-juice.

Common misconception. We actually don't know how the reapers work. They need grey goop to get it started sure, we know that from the end of ME2. However, we also know the reapers internal personalities share memories. Perhaps somewhere in there, there is a alpha body of the species. Perhaps with a hole in the head similiar to the matrix people who are plugged in. And in this reaper is Miri and shep, immortal. awesome. Both miri and sheps spirits and mind join, b/c their so strong willed, anyone who boards their ship will take on their memories, and their way of thinking. Their spirit soaks the vessel of the reaper that much. Then throw in a little imagination that they still have bodies they can use so we can still empathize. bam, bad ass.

This isn't Peter Pan.

When you're melted down to become a Reaper, you're-

1. Dead
2. Take on their way of thinking
3. Used more for mass than anything else
4. Personality is stripped away

None of that is fact

edit: We additionally dont know what else happens in the process of a reaper being made, why I still think it could work.

Modifié par schemata, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:51 .

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

F**k it I'll summarize:

Shepard can settle down. Nice. Painting nude Miranda's. I'm down with that.

Just because Shepard is "settled down" doesn't mean he can't go and help Miranda if she ever calls on him. I'm down with that.

If anyone ever were to f**k with Miranda or any of Shepard's friends, they will regret it. I'm down with that.

That's nice. My question was why isn't he doing anything else besides nothing and helping Miranda when she needs it. Where is his contribution to the rebuilding effort? More to the point where is his continued significance to the galaxy?

Because... He wants to be otherwise left alone? My reasoning is that Shepard wants to take a vacation, so to say, but if duty calls, he's right back into the thick. He's enjoying his time off, but if he's ever needed, he's more than willing to provide assistance.

His contribution to the galaxy would be the work he's doing for Miranda (Or whoever else calls on him).

[android654]

MisterJB wrote...

android654 wrote...

We can hypothesize about that but there's not to suggest it now. And while you can be 60/40 or 82/18 in one of the two, but it does affect your options in dialogue and then propels you further in the field your higher in.

I think you guys are giving Shepard depth that writers didn't intend Her/Him to have. There's more depth to the crewmates but Shepard's intentions aren't as elaborate as we'd like him to be.

And I think you are understimating Shepard.
For example, in ME1 when Rear Admiral Mikalovich wants to inspect the Normandy, the options are not simply a Yes/No. You can pick the first Renegade option and then pick the Paragon option and while that allows the admiral to inspect the ship, it is on Shepard's terms and the admiral actually acknowledge this.
In ME2, they screwed up Shepard. Too little roleplaying options but it seems that the writers noticed this mistake and are working on fixing it. They have even claimed that there will be a third, more gray morality system.

I forget many of the dialogue options from ME1 I got all my saves and only revisited ME2. Hopefully you guys are right and they fixed this issue for ME3 until then though the only depth I can see for the character is in headcannon.

As for what I see happening for Beau Shepard and Miranda? Well I see a sucessful outcome for ME3 but problems afterword. I see him trying to figure out what he'll do next. Where he fits if he wants to continues in the military, seek out where he was before ME1. There's a lot of time to be made up for that he wants to and wants to with Miranda. Miranda however, with threat of iminent death looming goes back to her natural state, busy. With all of her time eaten up with her work now running Cerberus, Shepard is really starting to see her for the first time in her own element. There will defintiely be a clash of personalities and they will realise that they don't have much time together. Ultimately they with separate amicably.

Miranda will grow Cerberus and ultimately become a governing body over Terminus colonies with the help of some of the old Normandy Crew (Jacob as a military advisor, Kasumi to head up an espionage body and refine their tactics, and Anderson as a political Liason to the other Council members). Beau would probably go back to France and work for the government as a homeland security type advisor and probably caught up with some of the darker elements of his past on Earth.

[CrutchCricket]

schemata wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

schemata wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Reaper=/= Protoss Archon.
You don't join with one person forever. You get melted down into Reaper Shakes with a few other million people and you become their go-juice.

Common misconception. We actually don't know how the reapers work. They need grey goop to get it started sure, we know that from the end of ME2. However, we also know the reapers internal personalities share memories. Perhaps somewhere in there, there is a alpha body of the species. Perhaps with a hole in the head similiar to the matrix people who are plugged in. And in this reaper is Miri and shep, immortal. awesome. Both miri and sheps spirits and mind join, b/c their so strong willed, anyone who boards their ship will take on their memories, and their way of thinking. Their spirit soaks the vessel of the reaper that much. Then throw in a little imagination that they still have bodies they can use so we can still empathize. bam, bad ass.

This isn't Peter Pan.

When you're melted down to become a Reaper, you're-

1. Dead
2. Take on their way of thinking
3. Used more for mass than anything else
4. Personality is stripped away

None of that is fact

Ugh dude. You know what you're suggesting? The ending of Skyline. I'm ashamed to say I saw that movie. Don't remind me of it.

[schemata]

CrutchCricket wrote...

schemata wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

schemata wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Reaper=/= Protoss Archon.
You don't join with one person forever. You get melted down into Reaper Shakes with a few other million people and you become their go-juice.

Common misconception. We actually don't know how the reapers work. They need grey goop to get it started sure, we know that from the end of ME2. However, we also know the reapers internal personalities share memories. Perhaps somewhere in there, there is a alpha body of the species. Perhaps with a hole in the head similiar to the matrix people who are plugged in. And in this reaper is Miri and shep, immortal. awesome. Both miri and sheps spirits and mind join, b/c their so strong willed, anyone who boards their ship will take on their memories, and their way of thinking. Their spirit soaks the vessel of the reaper that much. Then throw in a little imagination that they still have bodies they can use so we can still empathize. bam, bad ass.

This isn't Peter Pan.

When you're melted down to become a Reaper, you're-

1. Dead
2. Take on their way of thinking
3. Used more for mass than anything else
4. Personality is stripped away

None of that is fact

Ugh dude. You know what you're suggesting? The ending of Skyline. I'm ashamed to say I saw that movie. Don't remind me of it.

no idea what your talking about.

[android654]

CrutchCricket wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

F**k it I'll summarize:

Shepard can settle down. Nice. Painting nude Miranda's. I'm down with that.

Just because Shepard is "settled down" doesn't mean he can't go and help Miranda if she ever calls on him. I'm down with that.

If anyone ever were to f**k with Miranda or any of Shepard's friends, they will regret it. I'm down with that.

That's nice. My question was why isn't he doing anything else besides nothing and helping Miranda when she needs it? Where is his contribution to the rebuilding effort? More to the point where is his continued significance to the galaxy?

He doesn't have a contribution to the galaxy because its not a debt he chose its a debt that was forced on him. He doesn't want to help build other people's lives since he's still working on controlling his own. He spent that last few years sacrificing himself because he was made to not because he wants to. He's earned the right to live his own life now.


This is the problem of having a superman like character, only a few people can see him outside of that role. Characters should be more than the sum of their parts or their actions.

Modifié par android654, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:55 .

[AgitatedLemon]

schemata wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

schemata wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Reaper=/= Protoss Archon.
You don't join with one person forever. You get melted down into Reaper Shakes with a few other million people and you become their go-juice.

Common misconception. We actually don't know how the reapers work. They need grey goop to get it started sure, we know that from the end of ME2. However, we also know the reapers internal personalities share memories. Perhaps somewhere in there, there is a alpha body of the species. Perhaps with a hole in the head similiar to the matrix people who are plugged in. And in this reaper is Miri and shep, immortal. awesome. Both miri and sheps spirits and mind join, b/c their so strong willed, anyone who boards their ship will take on their memories, and their way of thinking. Their spirit soaks the vessel of the reaper that much. Then throw in a little imagination that they still have bodies they can use so we can still empathize. bam, bad ass.

This isn't Peter Pan.

When you're melted down to become a Reaper, you're-

1. Dead
2. Take on their way of thinking
3. Used more for mass than anything else
4. Personality is stripped away

None of that is fact

edit: We additionally dont know what else happens in the process of a reaper being made, why I still think it could work.

Actually, no.

You are dead when melted. I'm surprised you didn't know this.

2 can be inferred by the fact that every single Reaper thinks in an identical fashion. And the fact that ME3 happens at all.

3 is up there with 1. You could theoretically build a Reaper with 1 person, but it would be tiny. The thousands (Or millions) of people is more for generating a sustainable body mass than anything.

4 can be inferred by Sovereign and Harbinger having no personality, other thn "Kill everything".

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:55 .

[Swaggacide]

Im almost more excited to see Miranda and continue the romance then fight the reapers. Although both will be awesome

Modifié par Swaggacide, 20 janvier 2012 - 03:55 .

[CrutchCricket]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
Because... He wants to be otherwise left alone? My reasoning is that Shepard wants to take a vacation, so to say, but if duty calls, he's right back into the thick. He's enjoying his time off, but if he's ever needed, he's more than willing to provide assistance.

His contribution to the galaxy would be the work he's doing for Miranda (Or whoever else calls on him).

That sounds reasonable enough. But go ahead and reverse that and say that Miranda's taking a break while Shepard runs the show and she's willing to step in whenever she's needed. If that flies without a hitch I will officially shut up about this.

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
Because... He wants to be otherwise left alone? My reasoning is that Shepard wants to take a vacation, so to say, but if duty calls, he's right back into the thick. He's enjoying his time off, but if he's ever needed, he's more than willing to provide assistance.

His contribution to the galaxy would be the work he's doing for Miranda (Or whoever else calls on him).

That sounds reasonable enough. But go ahead and reverse that and say that Miranda's taking a break while Shepard runs the show and she's willing to step in whenever she's needed. If that flies without a hitch I will officially shut up about this.

It would be a personality shift, I think, but it could work, provided it is written well.

At least, so long as Miranda isn't reduced to being "That housewife" and does something productive.

Hell, her just enjoying herself for a few days before being called back into action would be fine. Even for a workaholic, they understand that SOME time needs to be taken off. Given her background and former line of work, I'd say she more than deserves it.

[CrutchCricket]

schemata wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...
Ugh dude. You know what you're suggesting? The ending of Skyline. I'm ashamed to say I saw that movie. Don't remind me of it.

no idea what your talking about.

Maybe that's why you still think it's a good idea.

This will be nausiating but...

Invincible aliens with blue lights (and very Reaperish looking ships) invade. The drone protagonists get picked off one by one until there's only the main guy and his girl. They get abducted. Turns out the aliens are using human brains for some reason, sticking them in alien bodies. They do that to the guy and as they're about to operate on teh girl the new guy-alien thing freaks out and rebels due to the power of love, Heroic Willpower and cosmic level bull****. Still think it's a good idea?