82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
I figured that, since the game is so close, speculation would be at it's highest, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Hence me being somewhat curious as to why the thread seems to be slooooooowing down. Hell, I can name a few people who posted like every other couple minutes, but now they don't even show up.

Here's one of the reasons: we can't openly talk about spoilers yet. Those most interested in Miranda will mostly know about the leaked script, so that's what speculation about Miranda would be based on at present. At the same time, "leak talk" has been exhausted as well since we all know it's not final. Presently, the "wait and see" mentality prevails.

BTW, anything more than one page per day is not slow. You'd know that had you been here before the leak. And plainly, I don't care if it is anyway. It's happened in the past, it will happen again. So what?

And here's one picture that hasn't been posted for very long time:

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:29 .

[Spanky Magoo]

Recently playing me2 again and a thought came up. When you take Miri on Grunts recruitment mission, at the end she says "If he'll help. I doubt anyones ever asked his opinion on anything". It got me to thinking, what if Miranda and Grunt had a moment (pre Grunts LM) where it was broght up that they were both created for something. Tools to be used by those who created them. I dont know how it would go though, Grunt doesnt seem like a real emotional krogan lol it was just an interesting thought.

Modifié par Spanky Magoo, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:45 .

[Ieldra]

About Miranda's Cerberus association being brought to court:

This is a complicated matter.

(1) What most people are forgetting is that until 2183 (or maybe late 2182 - a few months before Shepard met Admiral Kahoku), Cerberus was an Alliance black ops group. Miranda couldn't be brought to court for anything she did before 2183 unless it's clear it was not sanctioned by the Alliance and she knew that. Or if what she participated in was so inhuman that she should've known it wouldn't be sanctioned. I do not think there is such a thing.

(2) In 2183, she participated in preventing a batarian terrorist attack on the Citadel, and after that she was occupied with Lazarus almost all the time, and in the Collector mission after that. So while Cerberus was classified as terrorist by the Alliance and the Council (which it wouldn't have been before 2183 - see above), Miranda actually did things that benefitted the Council and humanity.

So bringing Miranda to court for her Cerberus association is a double-edged sword for whoever attempts it and likely to result in an epic backfire. As far as prosecuting her for specific things she did in the service of Cerberus, we would first have to know of any such things which were questionable when judged against the parameters of a black ops organization. And we don't.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 janvier 2012 - 09:07 .

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Question:
Is there a point in ME2 where you could imagine that your Shepard and Miranda got into a fight about something? About some decision you made, perhaps? I'd say giving Jack the data would count, but you can't avoid that, so it's not much of a debate, right?

Grunt & Legion. My Shep's are generally a touch rash with a dash of curiosity thrown in. Given Miranda's cautious mindset they are the obvious points of friction.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

About Miranda's Cerberus association being brought to court:

This is a complicated matter.

(1) What most people are forgetting is that until 2183 (or maybe late 2182 - a few months before Shepard met Admiral Kahoku), Cerberus was an Alliance black ops group. Miranda couldn't be brought to court for anything she did before 2183 unless it's clear it was not sanctioned by the Alliance and she knew that. Or if what she participated in was so inhuman that she should've known it wouldn't be sanctioned. I do not think there is such a thing.

Given my shep's distaste for the Alliance i hope we can dig further into this & level of Alliance complicity historically..
How does Teltin fit into the timeline? It must have been well before, when it was a fully sanctioned black ops group.

[Ieldra]

Teltin was constructed 2160 (info in the SB dossier).

[Swaggacide]

Will there be any official Miranda Mass Effect 3 News before ME3 Launch?

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Question:
Is there a point in ME2 where you could imagine that your Shepard and Miranda got into a fight about something? About some decision you made, perhaps? I'd say giving Jack the data would count, but you can't avoid that, so it's not much of a debate, right?

Probrably Overlord if done before learning about the schism between True Geth and Heretics. I can't imagine Miranda would not have argued for keeping David in the Project.
Grudgingly, I hope.

Ieldra2 wrote...

While I was thinking about this, I came across a contradictory element in Miranda's character: She's not one to put personal matters before the mission, don't you think? "The mission is too important to let personal feelings interfere". So I think she'd be a little concerned about how much time Shepard spends dealing with the personal problems of the team instead of getting on with the mission.

On the other hand, she's the one who always recommends that you continue with building up the team as long as any LMs are open. And of course her own LM is about something very personal as well. In part, this can be explained by Miranda being a planner. She likes to have every aspect under control. But if she's serious with "the mission is too important to let personal feelings interfere", shouldn't she expect that the team members put their personal problems on hold until the mission is over. Wouldn't she have the same expectation of herself? I'm having a little trouble bringing these aspects of her together.

Miranda has always been presented as a very cautious planner who does things slow but gets them done right the first time. There's no race to destroy the Collectors, she knowns that they will only have one shot at it.
So, not doing the LMs and thus not clearing the minds of the squadmates for the mission ahead could be interpreted as allowying personal feelings to interfere.
When time is of the essence, like with Horizon or the Collector Cruiser, LMs are put on hold so, they are still not interfering with the mission.

[Ieldra]

My take on Teltin and the Alliance:

As the SB dossier tells us, the Teltin facility was built in 2160, It is unclear when Cerberus became an Alliance black ops group after its foundation in 2157, but I doubt Jack Harper could raise the money for his organization on his own back then, no matter how well-funded it became later. So for now I assume that Cerberus was an Alliance black ops group in 2160. Though its objective "make the strongest possible human biotic" may have been sanctioned by the Alliance, I very much doubt the methods used were. How much wilful ignorance on the part of Alliance officials was involved is impossible to say.

As for Miranda, I think she knew of the project, considering her high rank in Cerberus, but I do not think she knew what exactly was done there. The same with Overlord - which, it can be assumed, only ran out of control just before the Normandy arrived. If you watch the holo logs on Atlas Station, what Archer did was OK for quite some time, right up to the presentation he gave where David controls a geth.

[Ieldra]

MegaBadExample wrote...
If you plan on cheating, then I do think you should romance Ash in ME1. Your Shepard can look at Horizon as a break up and romance Miranda guilt free if he wants.

I was ninja 'manced by Ashley in my latest replay. It was accidental, but I started to think about this could've happened and found it added to Cyrus Shepard's character. He does feel guilty for letting Ashley believe he loved her, even though he never encouraged her in any way. And he couldn't just push a woman like Ashley out of his bed, even less just before embarking on a mission where he could die. Horizon was a relief. He could honestly treat it as a break-up without having to explain all that.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

My take on Teltin and the Alliance:

As the SB dossier tells us, the Teltin facility was built in 2160, It is unclear when Cerberus became an Alliance black ops group after its foundation in 2157, but I doubt Jack Harper could raise the money for his organization on his own back then, no matter how well-funded it became later. So for now I assume that Cerberus was an Alliance black ops group in 2160. Though its objective "make the strongest possible human biotic" may have been sanctioned by the Alliance, I very much doubt the methods used were. How much wilful ignorance on the part of Alliance officials was involved is impossible to say.

As for Miranda, I think she knew of the project, considering her high rank in Cerberus, but I do not think she knew what exactly was done there. The same with Overlord - which, it can be assumed, only ran out of control just before the Normandy arrived. If you watch the holo logs on Atlas Station, what Archer did was OK for quite some time, right up to the presentation he gave where David controls a geth.

I think it is highly likely the Alliance signed off on the original Teltin concept. I can see them liking having an extreme alternative to Grissom with plausible deniability. Of course Teltin went off reservation and i don't think anyone bar the fool running it would have accepted the wasteful way they were treating biotics.


I think Miranda would have had knowledge that there was a Teltin project and that it was closed down. I can't see her as having any oversight of it at the time. When Jack's recruitment came about I feel she then would have dug out the actual details of what happened there.

Overlord imo is something that looks alot worse with hindsight, ie once you know about the Heretic/true geth

[Ieldra]

naledgeborn wrote...

jtav wrote...

Let me put it this way: I want the equivalent of NASA without government oversight for Miranda.

Keep dreaming. Cerberus is being presented as the Alliance's biggest mistake in ME3. The galaxy won't be too quick to forget it much less let any upstart humancentric organizations rise from the ashes.

That's why such an organization needs to be secret

But then, limited oversight (like the STG) would work just as well. The important thing is that Miranda has free reign about in which kind of research projects she invests resources. The occasional look over her shoulder to ensure there are no death camps is acceptable.

Also, it's a big galaxy. Unimaginably huge, in fact. Basically, that means that if you want to get lost, you can get lost. Space travel is super-easy and there is almost unlimited space to place your secret facilities in. The only dangerous spaces are the contact points to the "system", so to speak. Keep your dirty secrets away from there and you're going to be fine.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
von Braun was who I was thinking of. And yet, I hope for something grander for Miranda, free of Alliance control.

So do I. The problem is that she needs a power base - money, people, material resources. That must come from somewhere. Inheriting her father's fortune may go some way but it won't be enough in the long run. That's why I occasionally envision Cyrus Shepard as leader of a new human faction infused by transhumanist ideals, consisting of a number of colonies that break off from the Alliance during or after the war. A faction like that would be more likely to underwrite Miranda's projects with limited oversight.

The alternative is to hide the more controversial projects behind a business, just like her father did. 

[McManus001]

or Miranda could kill Liara and take over as the Shadow Broker

[Skullheart]

McManus001 wrote...

or Miranda could kill Liara and take over as the Shadow Broker

Liara is inmortal. I thought every one knew that by now.

And I don't see her in charge of the SB network. She would want to start something from its foundations. 

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...
As for Miranda's trial, weren't there some laws that allowed an individual to be charged for each crime the organization they were affiliated with was responsible for? I imagine they might do something like that. I don't know if the Alliance or the Council has the death penalty but a life sentence is probable.

I don't know the Alliance laws, but in my country such a law would be unconstitutional. There's a separate offense "membership in a criminal/terrorist organization", but that's not a capital offense and you'll never be charged, for instance, for a murder you didn't personally have a hand in. Even if you were a member of a group who committed an offense, the prosecution still has to prove that you've personally been involved or the charge will be shot down.
So if they prosecute Miranda at all, which I doubt for reasons given abovethread, she wouldn't get more than one or two years. And there's a good chance she'd get herself acquitted (see abovethread again).

[JosephDucreux]

CrutchCricket wrote...
As for Miranda's trial, weren't there some laws that allowed an individual to be charged for each crime the organization they were affiliated with was responsible for? I imagine they might do something like that. I don't know if the Alliance or the Council has the death penalty but a life sentence is probable.

Highly unlikely. In most countries there isn't such legislation, and I doubt that the Alliance would have anything like that due to the risk of their black operators being compromised and being charged with all sorts of crimes commited durings ops in the name of the Alliance. Also, Miranda would more likely than not trade her knowledge of Cerberus and all of its ops for immunity, a clean sheet, and a position as either the head or one of the higher-ups semi-governmental organization in the mold of the STG and the present, actually existing CIA.

[flemm]

Swaggacide wrote...

Will there be any official Miranda Mass Effect 3 News before ME3 Launch?

Probably at least some type of confirmation of Yvonne Strahovski reprising the role (or not, though I think she probably is) when the the VA list is announced, which I believe is slated for sometime in February. Wouldn't surprise me if that happened around Feb. 6, one month prior to release.

Ieldra2 wrote...
Question:
Is there a point in ME2 where you could imagine that your Shepard and Miranda got into a fight about something? About some decision you made, perhaps? I'd say giving Jack the data would count, but you can't avoid that, so it's not much of a debate, right?

Well, on the specific point of Jack and the data, I've never liked the options Shep has at that point. There's no really "strong" option: it's either trick Jack or act like a doormat. Miranda's reaction is actually the one Shep should be able to express. So, yes, I could see this being a subject of real disagreement.

Where Miranda is concerned, I think this actually ends up justifying the severity of her reaction if you support Jack in their confrontation later on. Where Jack is concerned, I think it's more of a problem, actually, in that I think it's hard for the player to get through the early interactions with Jack feeling good about the whole thing. Thus it is harder to relate to Jack than it should be (players don't like to feel weak).

To address your original query with a different example, I'd like to be able to argue with Miranda about TIM following the Collector Ship. I feel like there's a dialog missing there that would help foreshadow the resignation, and other things.

Modifié par flemm, 27 janvier 2012 - 02:57 .

[JosephDucreux]

I still have my gear prepped for going postal upon BW just in case Miri really does get sidelined. Recommend you guys grab your pitchforks/torches/shotguns/assault rifles/rocket launchers/tanks/JDAMs/ICBMs and get them ready just in case we really do need to go postal upon BW.

[ClanMacNab]

Ieldra2 wrote...


...And now for a picture and a discussion topic:


Question:
Is there a point in ME2 where you could imagine that your Shepard and Miranda got into a fight about something? About some decision you made, perhaps? I'd say giving Jack the data would count, but you can't avoid that, so it's not much of a debate, right?

   

There were a couple of times where Miranda did some stupid things in combat situations that ended up putting her flat on her face.

I really wanted to take her aside after reviving her and say, "What in the hell were you thinking when you stuck your neck out like that!!?  If you *ever* do it that again I'm going to spank you in front of the entire crew!!!"

...well, maybe I'd just spank her in private.

Modifié par ClanMacNab, 27 janvier 2012 - 03:11 .

[JosephDucreux]

ClanMacNab wrote...
If you *ever* do it that again I'm going to spank you in front of the entire crew!!!

...well, maybe I'd just spank her in private.

[nitefyre410]

Ieldra2 wrote...


...And now for a picture and a discussion topic:


Question:
Is there a point in ME2 where you could imagine that your Shepard and Miranda got into a fight about something? About some decision you made, perhaps? I'd say giving Jack the data would count, but you can't avoid that, so it's not much of a debate, right?

   

Yeah... about  Jack. 

The way  my head Canon plays out my Shepard see's alot of  younger self in Jack..  Him being  born and living on the streets. The things he did,  he saw, and had done to him.  He feel lucky that  he had chance in the Allaince to turn his life around.   

Or as I rp'd him saying after the fight. 


"I did not side with you because I agree with you. I sided with you because you are  my XO  and I'm not going to present  a front of divided authority on my ship." 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 27 janvier 2012 - 03:19 .

[jtav]

Would a carefully redacted fanfic excerpt be welcome?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Would a carefully redacted fanfic excerpt be welcome?

Of course it would.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 janvier 2012 - 03:28 .

[jtav]

[quote]He took another drink. "You were right about Shepard three years ago. As valuable as stopping the Collectors was, he cost us even more. I think the time has come for a concerted effort to remove the problem."

Assassination. They were going to assassinate Shepard. I had doubted him, yes. He had destroyed two of our cells in the six months before his death, and knew of several other projects. Then-Captain Kahoku had been the only reason he had retained his commission after Torfan. His psychological profile painted the portrait of a man stubborn and unyielding, even brutish, with a nearly fanatical loyalty to the Alliance. He might be unwilling to work with Cerberus or attempt to kill our officers outright. And that was assuming Lazarus went according to plan. Running that project had been a bit like operating the relay network. We understood that a particular piece of technology worked, but not how or why. One awakened on the operating table might be little more than a mindless beast, fit only to be put down. That was why I had pushed for the control chip.

I had never doubted his commitment to the battle against the Reapers. He was proving me right on that score. The technicians who were my primary company these days were still sane enough to give me fragmentary information about the war. [Shepard] was also working his way across the galaxy and uniting disparate groups—mercenaries and justicars, turians and krogan—into an army. I knew the value of shock troops. Even the most xenophobic member of Cerberus had to realize that the more people who stood united against the Reapers, the better humanity’s odds were. Shepard had become the unifying symbol that the Illusive Man had wanted, but he was discarding him.

“Is this wise, sir?" I could question, even if I couldn’t disobey. “At the very least, he could provide an invaluable distraction for the Reapers.”

"Or he could continue to disrupt our plans. I have the chance to not only ensure humanity’s survival, but our place as the preeminent species in the galaxy. Shepard cannot be allowed to interfere with that.” He leaned back in his chair. "You know Shepard better than anyone. I want you to come up with a plan for his capture and elimination.”

“Yes, sir.” The words tumbled out, but my voice had a slightly hollow quality, as it always did when I was acting due to the blocks in my programming instead of my higher-order processes.

"You’re doing valuable work for Cerberus. Despite your condition, despite whatever Shepard did to you that made you doubt, I wanted you to know that you're still an asset to humanity." He smiled at me. It was a real smile, the sort I had chased after because they meant he was pleased with me. "The Lazarus Project was the greatest medical achievement in history. Perhaps when this is over, you can reap the rewards of your work." He lifted his glass in a toast. "To your success." The QEC switched off, and I was left alone.

The Illusive Man’s drinking in front of me had not been out of malice or callous indifference. It was temptation. The message could hardly have been clearer if he’d spoken it aloud. Kill Shepard, see that Cerberus succeeded, and my body would be returned to me. Whatever madness had afflicted the Illusive Man, he hadn’t forgotten that a willing servant was infinitely more valuable than a slave.

I could have simply switched off my own holographic projector and directed the small cameras and microphones that could feed me audiovisual information anywhere in the station to switch to idle, but I didn’t. The hologram turned on his heel and walked away as silently as the ghost that I was trying to pretend that I wasn't. The sight before me shifted and changed as I processed only what I could have seen had I been walking back to the AI core and looking at the station with eyes made of flesh and blood. Call it an attempt to retain that nebulous concept called humanity as I pondered the Illusive Man’s offer.

I allowed myself to fantasize. My heels in could once again clatter on the floor. I could have a glass of wine. ’43 Noverian Chardonnay. The taste would be smooth with the slightest hint of oak and fill me with a warmth that made my limbs heavy. I could take a lover. It wouldn’t be the mechanical couplings I’d arranged on iPartners in a desperate attempt to have children before time ran out. No, this would be through sheer, glorious, physical pleasure of sex. And all I had to do was kill one man. Hardly any different from the countless other times I’d killed to preserve my life.