82210 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...
I wonder how many richer than God Mr.Lawsons there are.

Who cares? The question is how many teenage girls are named Lawson?

Miranda says that Cerberus has come up with a "positive reason" to move the family. I doubt they ever realized that they were hiding from someone.

I find that implausible. Whether it was Eclipse mercs or Miranda's people they'd be too tense for a simple outing. Oriana is supposed to be as smart as Miranda. She'd pick up on that and start asking questions. I don't believe she'd be oblivious.

[Td1984]

As for naming a potential Shep/Miranda child, I'd go with Sarah, lol.

Sorry, I'm having trouble letting Chuck go.

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Who cares? The question is how many teenage girls are named Lawson?

Probrably...a lot. However, after 20 years, there's no way the richest man in the galaxy wouldn't have found her.

But that's not the point. Miranda introducing herself as Lawson is reckless and pointless. If she does so, then she has to explain why their real father is dangerous and Oriana shouldn't try to connect with him.
She could have just come up with a story about how they were separated at birth and be done with it.

I find that implausible. Whether it was Eclipse mercs or Miranda's people they'd be too tense for a simple outing. Oriana is supposed to be as smart as Miranda. She'd pick up on that and start asking questions. I don't believe she'd be oblivious.

When you see Oriana and her family, they are not surrounded by Cerberus personell with guns and Miranda even says that she doesn't want to involve anyone else because she doesn't trust them.
The company Oriana's mother works for could be a front for Cerberus and TIM has them offer her a promotion that requires them to move to another planet. There, they move to where Miranda wants them to and they don't even realize it.

[OSE Killer]

Do I look like the default Shepard?

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...
Probrably...a lot. However, after 20 years, there's no way the richest man in the galaxy wouldn't have found her.

Unless someone else was working behind the scenes, confounding her father's search, misdirecting it. Hmm:bandit:

But that's not the point. Miranda introducing herself as Lawson is reckless and pointless. If she does so, then she has to explain why their real father is dangerous and Oriana shouldn't try to connect with him.
She could have just come up with a story about how they were separated at birth and be done with it.

When you see Oriana and her family, they are not surrounded by Cerberus personell with guns and Miranda even says that she doesn't want to involve anyone else because she doesn't trust them.
The company Oriana's mother works for could be a front for Cerberus and TIM has them offer her a promotion that requires them to move to another planet. There, they move to where Miranda wants them to and they don't even realize it.

I would agree that Miranda telling Oriana the truth would be foolish if Oriana was oblivious. But to assume she is doesn't make sense. The suddeness of the loyalty mission (even factoring travel time from where ever the Normandy is when you get it) does not allow for an inconspicuous relocation. The mother working for a Cerberus front is a nice idea, I see no problem with it. But the relocation is too abrupt to be pulled off with Oriana in the dark. Either she knows part of the story already or she's going to ask a lot of questions that a "separated at birth" story won't handle. Not to mention that whatever Miranda's qualms are about involving other people don't come into play because Niket shows up with armed mercs anyway. There is zero chance of the family remaining oblivious.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 28 janvier 2012 - 06:35 .

[Dr. Doctor]

ThomGau wrote...
As two "perfect specimens" of their respective species, it would have been great to see such a thing happening ...
Grunt is entirely proud of his enhancements as opposed to Miranda who doesn't take credit for her brilliant achievements because of them .
She could have had another outlook on her gifts from Grunt . Perhaps she would have started to embrace them . In any case, I hope she will in ME3 .

I agree, Grunt from the get-go calls Okeer a fool for trying to impose his own ideals upon him. He accepts the fact that he's been engineered, he seeks a purpose in his life. Miranda on the other hand has the opposite problem, at the begining of the game she states that Cerberus lets her use her gifts for a purpose but she's less comfortable with her origins than Grunt is.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Will Side Missions in ME2, like "Abandoned Mine" or "Imminent Ship Crash" or "Javelin Launch" have any effect on ME3?

[ThomGau]

I think so Luis . I don't know how but they will have an small impact on ME3 imo .

Edit : @Doctor, I completely agree with your observation .

Grunt doesn't bother at all about his origins, about his "father" Okeer.  He is the best Krogan, so be it .However, he hasn't found his purpose yet .
Whereas Miranda often alludes (too much) to her father and her origins. Though, she does have a goal before and in ME2 with Cerberus .
I hope she will have a greater purpose in ME3 and after,than just the safety of her family, even if it is a noble one, it's definitely not enough for a woman like her .

Modifié par ThomGau, 28 janvier 2012 - 07:42 .

[Skullheart]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Will Side Missions in ME2, like "Abandoned Mine" or "Imminent Ship Crash" or "Javelin Launch" have any effect on ME3?

They could have the same effect as ME1 side missions. Just an announcement on the Citadel or a message in Shepard's mail.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Skullheart wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Will Side Missions in ME2, like "Abandoned Mine" or "Imminent Ship Crash" or "Javelin Launch" have any effect on ME3?

They could have the same effect as ME1 side missions. Just an announcement on the Citadel or a message in Shepard's mail.

That's it?! Not even an effect on the Vital Parts of the Story??

[Td1984]

*POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT*

Since you have to work to get the "best" ending, I'd guess the side missions would all have to be completed (though not necessarily the DLC).

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I thought it was the other way around. I thought the DLCs will have an effect.

[Td1984]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I thought it was the other way around. I thought the DLCs will have an effect.

Think about it. Not everyone can afford the DLC or has internet access with which to get it. They'd get screwed over in that case.

[Ieldra]

ThomGau wrote...
As two "perfect specimens" of their respective species, it would have been great to see such a thing happening ...
Grunt is entirely proud of his enhancements as opposed to Miranda who doesn't take credit for her brilliant achievements because of them .
She could have had another outlook on her gifts from Grunt . Perhaps she would have started to embrace them . In any case, I hope she will in ME3 .

That's what we all hope I think. I also think that may have been somewhat unexpected for the Bioware writers. 

As for Grunt, he's not the introspective type. He'd see his attributes are useful for what he does best - fighting - and he'd not agonize over them. I can't help but think that's a healthier attitude than Miranda's. As she says herself, she does damn good work with those enhancements of hers. She, not her father. We'll see how it goes in ME3. I believe we may be able to influence her attitude somewhat.

[Revan654]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I thought it was the other way around. I thought the DLCs will have an effect.

DLC will have an Effect.

[Shepherd10]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't know for sure, no. But the question is will the "temps" be actually on the squad in "their" missions or will they be companions you can't control, not even walking with you most of the time but only appearing at key points. The evidence makes me suspect the latter though of course I cannot be sure.

That sounds incredibly stupid. I hope they're better than that.

I'm pretty sure temp means that they're part of your squad for a short period of time. Meaning it's a la LOTSB.

[Td1984]

Revan654 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I thought it was the other way around. I thought the DLCs will have an effect.

DLC will have an Effect.

I refuse to do Overlord or Arrival. Better not prevent my getting the "perfect" ending.

[ThomGau]

Ieldra2 wrote...

That's what we all hope I think. I also think that may have been somewhat unexpected for the Bioware writers. 

As for Grunt, he's not the introspective type. He'd see his attributes are useful for what he does best - fighting - and he'd not agonize over them. I can't help but think that's a healthier attitude than Miranda's. As she says herself, she does damn good work with those enhancements of hers. She, not her father. We'll see how it goes in ME3. I believe we may be able to influence her attitude somewhat.

@bold1 : This might be true indeed. Trans-humanism and genetic modifications seem evil for the mundane crowd . To me it is great, her genetic modifications are a blessing not just for Miranda herself but for the whole humanity as well.

@bold2 : I hope we could somehow help/influence her on that subject. For example in the leak, some of Shepard's lines during the Lazarus conversation tend toward that direction.

Modifié par ThomGau, 28 janvier 2012 - 10:56 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Can I start a New Game Plus AFTER the SM?

If so, What will happen to Overlord, LOTSB, and Arrival if I start a New Game + without completing them, will they disappear?

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Unless someone else was working behind the scenes, confounding her father's search, misdirecting it. Hmm

There would be no need to do that if she had just renamed the baby. Which I am still choosing to believe she did.

I would agree that Miranda telling Oriana the truth would be foolish if Oriana was oblivious. But to assume she is doesn't make sense. The suddeness of the loyalty mission (even factoring travel time from where ever the Normandy is when you get it) does not allow for an inconspicuous relocation. The mother working for a Cerberus front is a nice idea, I see no problem with it. But the relocation is too abrupt to be pulled off with Oriana in the dark.

We don't know that. We don't know for how long Miranda has planned the extraction. Altough I will admit that that I always saw it as something that had to be done in a rush, we also don't know what excuse Cerberus used. If you are a completely normal person and suddenly, your family informs you that you have to move and actually gives you a banal reason for it, your first tought is not that you are running from someone.

Either she knows part of the story already or she's going to ask a lot of questions that a "separated at birth" story won't handle.

Well, we know that Oriana realized Miranda was doing something dangerous. I'm just saying that it would not be very intelligent of Miranda to reveal their real name.

Not to mention that whatever Miranda's qualms are about involving other people don't come into play because Niket shows up with armed mercs anyway. There is zero chance of the family remaining oblivious.

Shepard and Miranda killed them all before they got close to Oriana and her family.

[jtav]

I do get the sense sometimes that we are reading against the text, that Miranda was supposed to be a tragic figure whose idealism was merely the result of latching on to the first organization that didn't treat her like crap. She's brilliant yes, but also twisted and very nearly broken. Shepard, especially Paragon Shepard, sets her free. The resignation wasn't supposed to split the fanbase, it was supposed to be a moment we all cheered. Miranda not only places her trust in the wrong person, she doesn't really want what she says she wants.

[Ieldra]

ThomGau wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

That's what we all hope I think. I also think that may have been somewhat unexpected for the Bioware writers. 

As for Grunt, he's not the introspective type. He'd see his attributes are useful for what he does best - fighting - and he'd not agonize over them. I can't help but think that's a healthier attitude than Miranda's. As she says herself, she does damn good work with those enhancements of hers. She, not her father. We'll see how it goes in ME3. I believe we may be able to influence her attitude somewhat.

@bold1 : This might be true indeed. Trans-humanism and genetic modifications seem evil for the mundane crowd . To me it is great, her genetic modifications are a bliss not just for Miranda herself but for the whole humanity as well.

I guess the word you were looking for is "blessing".

And yes I agree. The suspicion that the Bioware writers had a canned stance inherited from common stereotypes on this is one of the reasons why I've been so outspoken with my opinion for two years. Perhaps I give them too little credit and it wasn't needed, and perhaps it wasn't heeded, but perhaps my and others' posts on the topic have brought a different perspective to their attention. After all, the ME trilogy is the first SF game Bioware ever made. 

@bold2 : I hope we could somehow help/influence her on that subject. For example in the leak, some of Shepard's lines during the Lazarus conversation tend toward that direction.

Shepard sounds almost in awe, doesn't he? Well, she should be. It is as Wilson says, the greatest medical advance in human history. Something similar applies to Miranda's genetic engineering - I can't see being smarter and living longer as bad, and I definitely don't see anything sacred, taboo or untouchable about human biology. Biology is a mess, and the human body is the result of a process akin to turning a calculator software into an AI by application of a million consecutive patches. There is no reason why an optimization shouldn't be attempted, given that the knowledge of how to do so exists.

[ThomGau]

jtav wrote...

I do get the sense sometimes that we are reading against the text, that Miranda was supposed to be a tragic figure whose idealism was merely the result of latching on to the first organization that didn't treat her like crap. She's brilliant yes, but also twisted and very nearly broken. Shepard, especially Paragon Shepard, sets her free. The resignation wasn't supposed to split the fanbase, it was supposed to be a moment we all cheered. Miranda not only places her trust in the wrong person, she doesn't really want what she says she wants.

I do have similar thoughts on that subject sometimes .

In Cerberus she may have found some emotional and professional stability . She indeed didn't have her father breathing down her neck anymore and she could adhere to a great purpose, the advancement of humanity.
In fact I believe that, to some extent she found a foster father in TIM. He is very demanding as well but as you said, he doesn't treat her like crap . However, I think TIM considers her as a tool just like her father but he respects her.

She put her trust in the wrong people during her life . I think a loving or a friendly Shepard might be the first person who considers her as a brilliant operative (not just a tool) but also as human being and a women .

As for the resignation line, I don't want to relight old ashes and debates but in a sense, yeah, she has finally found someone she can really trust.

Edit : @Ieldra yeah I meant blessing ( I'm getting tired and I mixed up my word sorry)

Modifié par ThomGau, 28 janvier 2012 - 10:06 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I do get the sense sometimes that we are reading against the text, that Miranda was supposed to be a tragic figure whose idealism was merely the result of latching on to the first organization that didn't treat her like crap.

Sometimes, yes. But that would mean everything she says about human advancement - and she says a lot - would have to be treated as secondary and in the end meaningless. Usually, in Bioware games, we can take most of what's said at face value, and when we're not supposed to, that's usually completely clear. So...I don't know. 

Anyway, I don't think there are many other statements expressed so often by Miranda fans as "We want a good face of human advancement and we want Miranda to play a role in it". If they haven't listened to that, I think we are justified in calling them out for it. Also I can't remember a single post saying that Miranda should reject her enhancements as something evil. Not a single one in two years of continuous presence on this thread. There have been disagreements about her pragmatism, about her being detached or being emotional, about her outfits and about her sex life, but never, ever about this. That has to count for something.

She's brilliant yes, but also twisted and very nearly broken. Shepard, especially Paragon Shepard, sets her free. The resignation wasn't supposed to split the fanbase, it was supposed to be a moment we all cheered. Miranda not only places her trust in the wrong person, she doesn't really want what she says she wants.

Hmm...I don't really think so. Bioware usually aims for a somewhat even split. I recall that they tweaked elements of DA2 in favor of the templars because in their tests too many players sided with the mages. 37% kept the Collector base and it is reasonable to expect a correlation between players who romanced Miranda and those who kept the base, because Tali is too decidedly Paragon and Jack too decidedly anti-Cerberus. Miranda is *the* romance for a pragmatic Shepard. I think it's rather the other way round. They introduced Paragon elements into Miranda's part of the endgame to tell the Paragons "you can romance her, too".

[Ieldra]

ThomGau wrote...
As for the resignation line, I don't want to relight old ashes and debates but in a sense, yeah, she has finally found someone she can really trust.

I don't see it that way. Personal trust is not necessarily involved, because she resigns even if she's not loyal. I think her resignation has more to do with the realization that Shepard is the best hope for humanity and the galaxy, and that TIM is wrong to discard him (or her).

Where the personal trust comes in is in the event around her LM, and if Shepard is male, in the romance. Likely she's never had one she can trust with personal matters before. But that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on her resignation.