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[jtav]

Sorry, just...that scene. It doesn't help that that version of Miranda is the most fleshed out.

[android654]

Came across this song while organizing a playlist and it made me think of Miri, enjoy.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Sorry, just...that scene. It doesn't help that that version of Miranda is the most fleshed out.

Yeah....but we'll have more, and more importantly, Miranda's ME3 scenes don't invalidate her ME2 scenes as long as they don't explicitly contradict them. As long as *some* of the Miranda dedicated to her cause is present, she's at least salvageable. Of course I hope for more.

@android:
Yep, Selene has much in common with Miranda. I'm looking forward to Underworld: Awakening

[ThomGau]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't see it that way. Personal trust is not necessarily involved, because she resigns even if she's not loyal. I think her resignation has more to do with the realization that Shepard is the best hope for humanity and the galaxy, and that TIM is wrong to discard him (or her).

Where the personal trust comes in is in the event around her LM, and if Shepard is male, in the romance. Likely she's never had one she can trust with personal matters before. But that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on her resignation.

I think this particular line would have been much better if BW had polished it more, they should have taken into account way more circumstances for that line than just a P/R choice .
For example the most important thing would have been to know wether or not Miranda is loyal. Then maybe if she is romanced but it is less relevant regarding that line.

Here are the different possibilties which to me, should have been taken into account for that line to really make sense, and it should have been a bit different depending on the situation :

If she is not loyal, well, this line wouldn't have made much sense

If she is loyal  : Shepard is the best hope for humanity and the galaxy, and TIM is wrong to discard him/her.

If she is loyal and romanced : Shepard is the best hope for humanity and the galaxy, and TIM is wrong to discard him. Moreover in him, she found someone she can really trust.

It would have taken too much ressources and complications for just one line, so BW didn't do it.

Modifié par ThomGau, 28 janvier 2012 - 10:49 .

[Ieldra]

Which line exactly are you talking about, ThomGau *somewhat confused*

[ThomGau]

Oh, I was thinking about the possibility of different "resignation lines" depending on certain circumstances.
I'm sorry if I confused you.

Modifié par ThomGau, 28 janvier 2012 - 11:01 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I don't see it that way. Personal trust is not necessarily involved, because she resigns even if she's not loyal. I think her resignation has more to do with the realization that Shepard is the best hope for humanity and the galaxy, and that TIM is wrong to discard him (or her).

Well, also, in Miranda's eyes, TIM shows that he is ready to discard, not only Shepard, but also Miranda herself. She says, "Or what? You'll replace me next?"

This is why, imo, it can never be convincingly argued that the resignation is out of character: at the core of the character is the horror of her own "disposability" in the eyes of her father. This is what she escaped from, and this is what she wants to save her sister from. So, to have a person she trusted, TIM, behave in a similar manner should, indeed, be an absolute dealbreaker as far as her allegiance to that person is concerned.

Thus her resignation is absolutely necessary at that point. I do have some issues with the scene. Basically too much important stuff is crammed into a few lines. This is due, no doubt, to some design limitations with regard to how the dialog works in that particular climactic scene. Probably some of this stuff should have been brought up earlier, I think after the Collector Ship, either in conversation with Shepard, or, ideally, via a piece of a conversation between Miranda and TIM that Shepard overhears somehow.

On a somewhat related note, I have a lot more sympathy with your eternal condemnation of the "betrayal" line as OOC because, in that case, there is a legitimate problem with how it is phrased. But not the resignation.

Modifié par flemm, 28 janvier 2012 - 11:22 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
 They introduced Paragon elements into Miranda's part of the endgame to tell the Paragons "you can romance her, too".

I don't think that really makes sense. All of that is after the romance anyway.

I think it would be more accurate to say that, thoughout the game, there are two clear paths one can follow in the romance/relationship, one where you are basically two happy Renegades going about your business, and another where Miranda gets in touch with her feelings/becomes more noble, due to Paragon Shep's influence.

This is evident notably in the two choices on the LM, where this time Shep prevents the summary execution (as opposed to what happens with Wilson early on), and then encourages her to talk to her sister. So, the resignation is more like the payoff for the work you did, as a Paragon player, to build a closer relationship with Miranda. 

In the Renegade version, I think the idea is more: Miranda, along wth no doubt other factors, influenced Shep and now s/he is onboard with Cerberus. But anyway: there are consciously two paths throughout, which is one of the reasons why you get a lot of division on what the character is "really" about, etc.

*Sorry for the double post, didn't feel like editing this back into my earlier post.*

Modifié par flemm, 28 janvier 2012 - 11:46 .

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...
There would be no need to do that if she had just renamed the baby. Which I am still choosing to believe she did.

Oh come now, seriously? You believe there is a man who is able to pursue one child through the entirety of the galaxy such that it takes somone equally brilliant operative and an entire organization behind them constantly opposing him to prevent him from finding her... and you expect this person to be stumped by a name change?

We don't know that. We don't know for how long Miranda has planned the extraction. Altough I will admit that that I always saw it as something that had to be done in a rush, we also don't know what excuse Cerberus used. If you are a completely normal person and suddenly, your family informs you that you have to move and actually gives you a banal reason for it, your first tought is not that you are running from someone.

"You need to move right now. No, forget packing anything more than a suitcase or two, we'll (maybe) get those for you. No forget about your friends, your jobs, your school. We need to go. Why? Uhm.... you won the lotto?"
Not likely. Miranda planning the extration would only extend as far as having an exit strategy or two in case her father was getting two close. But given her surprise and hurt at Niket she clearly wasn't expecting him to lead them to her sister. So no I don't have reason to believe a well planned exodus was carried out with civilians being none the wiser.

Well, we know that Oriana realized Miranda was doing something dangerous. I'm just saying that it would not be very intelligent of Miranda to reveal their real name.

And I'm saying at this point it wouldn't matter. Oriana would know enough and might even benefit from knowing who she has to hide from, thereby taking an active approach as opposed to constantly needing such close monitoring.

Shepard and Miranda killed them all before they got close to Oriana and her family.

Is that specifically stated? I always interpreted it as each side made contact (Niket perhaps using his prior relationship with Miranda to win Oriana's trust) and it was simply a matter of who would take her offworld first. I could be wrong about this part though.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:44 .

[Dr. Doctor]

flemm wrote...

In the Renegade version, I think the idea is more: Miranda, along wth no doubt other factors, influenced Shep and now s/he is onboard with Cerberus. But anyway: there are consciously two paths throughout, which is one of the reasons why you get a lot of division on what the character is "really" about, etc.

I prefer the Renegade path because Miranda acknowledges that she is damned impressive. Paragon Shepard sort of comes off as just firing off platitudes until Miranda agrees with him. Meanwhile when Miranda's down on herself after her LM Renegade Shepard goes and agrees with her and she doesn't like that so she comes back and reminds him that she does damn good work. 

What's really confusing me about the leak is that in ME3 a Shepard who romanced Miranda adores the brilliant, super-operative side of her. He's in awe of how she managed to bring him back while Miranda's focused on the "normal life" she couldn't have.

[flemm]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
 Paragon Shepard sort of comes off as just firing off platitudes until Miranda agrees with him.

Heh, well, one could argue that this is how a lot of the Paragon material works: the overwhelming power of the platitude

(I mean throughout the game, not just Miranda-related.)

That said, I don't think it's as one-sided as all that. "You give your father too much credit," is a Paragon line, as I recall. And having Miranda talk to Oriana seems like a pretty popular choice, even among the most hardened Renegades.

Modifié par flemm, 29 janvier 2012 - 01:36 .

[Dr. Doctor]

It's incredibly difficult to not let Miranda talk to Oriana. She just looks so sad and it doesn't help that the scene is a Crowning Moment of Heartwarming. Not doing it makes me feel like I kicked a puppy.

As for the Paragon dialogue options this is what it feels like:

Miranda: Commander, do you need something?

Shepard: You know, you give your father too much credit.

Miranda: If you say so Shepad.

Shepard: Really, your always down on yourself and you shouldn't be you're a good person.

Miranda: Alright then, now if you excuse-

Shepard: I'm being serious, you're really hard to complement.

Miranda: (sighs) You're just going to keep this up until I sound like I'm happy aren't you?

Shepard: Pretty much.

Miranda: Fine. (sarcastically) I should give myself credit for my own successes, not just my mistakes. Happy now?

Shepard: That's not important, what's important is that your happy

Miranda: (muttering under her breath) I should have installed that control chip.

Shepard: That's the spirit!

[shepard1038]

Dr.Doctor nice post.lol

[Skullheart]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

It's incredibly difficult to not let Miranda talk to Oriana. She just looks so sad and it doesn't help that the scene is a Crowning Moment of Heartwarming. Not doing it makes me feel like I kicked a puppy.

As for the Paragon dialogue options this is what it feels like:

Miranda: Commander, do you need something?

Shepard: You know, you give your father too much credit.

Miranda: If you say so Shepad.

Shepard: Really, your always down on yourself and you shouldn't be you're a good person.

Miranda: Alright then, now if you excuse-

Shepard: I'm being serious, you're really hard to complement.

Miranda: (sighs) You're just going to keep this up until I sound like I'm happy aren't you?

Shepard: Pretty much.

Miranda: Fine. (sarcastically) I should give myself credit for my own successes, not just my mistakes. Happy now?

Shepard: That's not important, what's important is that your happy

Miranda: (muttering under her breath) I should have installed that control chip.

Shepard: I should go.

fixed

[JosephDucreux]

So...we really don't have anything else to debate, do we?

Then get to writing dialog. ALL OF YOU. No more long, boring and pointless arguments. Dialog NOW.

Can't believe that the day Uncle Joe doesn't show up in the forums, this thread gets spammed.

[JeanLuc761]

Td1984 wrote...
I refuse to do Overlord or Arrival. Better not prevent my getting the "perfect" ending.

Sorry for responding to a 7-hour old post, but the only DLC that is confirmed to affect Mass Effect 3 in some way is Lair of the Shadow Broker.

[shepard1038]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Td1984 wrote...
I refuse to do Overlord or Arrival. Better not prevent my getting the "perfect" ending.

Sorry for responding to a 7-hour old post, but the only DLC that is confirmed to affect Mass Effect 3 in some way is Lair of the Shadow Broker.

I think that overlord and arrival affect mass effect 3

[CrutchCricket]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Td1984 wrote...
I refuse to do Overlord or Arrival. Better not prevent my getting the "perfect" ending.

Sorry for responding to a 7-hour old post, but the only DLC that is confirmed to affect Mass Effect 3 in some way is Lair of the Shadow Broker.

Confused. Why would they prevent a perfect ending?

Also I don't know about Overlord but Arrival plays a role for sure. That's why you start off on Earth. If you don't do it, they'll probably pick the worst option as the default.

[JeanLuc761]

CrutchCricket wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Td1984 wrote...
I refuse to do Overlord or Arrival. Better not prevent my getting the "perfect" ending.

Sorry for responding to a 7-hour old post, but the only DLC that is confirmed to affect Mass Effect 3 in some way is Lair of the Shadow Broker.

Confused. Why would they prevent a perfect ending?

Also I don't know about Overlord but Arrival plays a role for sure. That's why you start off on Earth. If you don't do it, they'll probably pick the worst option as the default.

Arrival plays a role only in that it's how the game starts.  Unless something has changed, Shepard will ALWAYS start off Mass Effect 3 in detention for the events of Arrival.

Also, Arrival didn't have any choices whatsoever, so the "default" option is "I played it." 

[CrutchCricket]

JeanLuc761 wrote...
Also, Arrival didn't have any choices whatsoever, so the "default" option is "I played it." 

Warn the batarians vs not? Seemed pretty big at the time.

[JeanLuc761]

CrutchCricket wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...
Also, Arrival didn't have any choices whatsoever, so the "default" option is "I played it." 

Warn the batarians vs not? Seemed pretty big at the time.

Given you couldn't reach the Batarians anyway, I don't count that as a choice.  They died either way.

[enayasoul]

How many of us really sent out that distress signal to them? Really that would only acknowledge you were there? When Hacket said don't let them find out it's you?

My maleshep will have the card stacked against him already with being a colonist/ruthless background. Oh boy. I love that line... "Those bastards were dug in deep. No way was I letting them get away!" Or whatever the correct line is.
He's such a bad ass.

I have way more fun being the renegade than paragon. He seems too naive.

Yeah, I think they mentioned Arrival will be important even if you didn't play it. Something would happened with it. Can't remember exactly.

Modifié par enayasoul, 29 janvier 2012 - 04:49 .

[CrutchCricket]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Given you couldn't reach the Batarians anyway, I don't count that as a choice.  They died either way.

Warning them might've given some of them a chance to escape. It might've also given them a chance to try and stop you. I think it'll be relevant.

[AgitatedLemon]

enayasoul wrote...

How many of us really sent out that distress signal to them? Really that would only acknowledge you were there? When Hacket said don't let them find out it's you?

My maleshep will have the card stacked against him already with being a colonist/ruthless background. Oh boy. I love that line... "Those bastards were dug in deep. No way was I letting them get away!" Or whatever the correct line is.
He's such a bad ass.

I have way more fun being the renegade than paragon. He seems too naive.

Yeah, I think they mentioned Arrival will be important even if you didn't play it. Something would happened with it. Can't remember exactly.

I think they were just referring to the assumption that Arrival was played through in ME3.

[shepard1038]

Is it true that miri wont be a permanent squadmember