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[clennon8]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I sure hope ME3 has a BETTER Ending than what Chuck had. I want to see a Good Ending with Miri, who is Also played by Yvonne, just like Sarah in Chuck.

I thought the Chuck finale was pretty great.  It was a Good Ending.

[Skullheart]

shepard1038 wrote...

Swaggacide wrote...

@AgitatedLemon
The pyros on Mordin's RM made me chuck my controller at the wall on Insanity

I always use sniping to take them out.

I enjoy see them explode after using a overload.

[shepard1038]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I always brought Grunt with Miri and I to Horizon. Should I bring someone else with Miri and I? I brought Grunt along for two years.

You should bring garrus.

[Ieldra]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

flemm wrote...
In the Renegade version, I think the idea is more: Miranda, along wth no doubt other factors, influenced Shep and now s/he is onboard with Cerberus. But anyway: there are consciously two paths throughout, which is one of the reasons why you get a lot of division on what the character is "really" about, etc.

I prefer the Renegade path because Miranda acknowledges that she is damned impressive. Paragon Shepard sort of comes off as just firing off platitudes until Miranda agrees with him. Meanwhile when Miranda's down on herself after her LM Renegade Shepard goes and agrees with her and she doesn't like that so she comes back and reminds him that she does damn good work.

Yep. And that's one of the problems I have with the Paragon path throughout the game. Platitudes. "Follow your heart and everything will be fine". Yeah, right. The reason why many otherwise Renegade-leaning players encourage Miranda to talk to her sister because in this instance, there's actually a point to it. But to use the same principle in the far-ranging decisions is just stupid. And the Paragon path *supports* this stupidity. Not that the Renegade path doesn't have its own problems. RenShep is a colossal jerk at times. The difference is that nobody really buys into the Renegade path in those situations where Shepard is a jerk, they're mostly played for the laughs, while people passionately defend the Paragon path even where it's stupid. I say there's some self-deception or wilful ignorance in that.

What's really confusing me about the leak is that in ME3 a Shepard who romanced Miranda adores the brilliant, super-operative side of her. He's in awe of how she managed to bring him back while Miranda's focused on the "normal life" she couldn't have.

That aspect is limited to one scene most of us here will probably never play, so you can't say she's all focused on that. But her focus appears to be on Oriana to a disturbing degree, and the big picture doesn't play a big enough part in her motivation. 

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

shepard1038 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I always brought Grunt with Miri and I to Horizon. Should I bring someone else with Miri and I? I brought Grunt along for two years.

You should bring garrus.

Garrus' abilities are almost Similar to Grunt's. It would make no difference. I make bring either Kasumi or Mordin.

@ Skullheart I replied to your last post, BUUT it is on the previous page.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 29 janvier 2012 - 08:40 .

[shepard1038]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I always brought Grunt with Miri and I to Horizon. Should I bring someone else with Miri and I? I brought Grunt along for two years.

You should bring garrus.

Garrus' abilities are almost Similar to Grunt's. It would make no difference. I make bring either Kasumi or Mordin.

I say that because of the dialouge.

[Skullheart]

You should bring Grunt or Zaeed. Zaeed has the biggest attack bonus (50%,damage, counting Miranda passive, 65%, besides any upgrade you might have). Grunt has the best regeneration (btw, have you played ME1 on insanity? Krogans are hard to kill there).

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

No I love Miri's comment towards Kaidan, "Typical Alliance attitude. You're so focused on Cerberus that you're blind to the real threat."

[Ieldra]

101, shepard1038:
Would you please stay at least a little on topic. This is not the place for a full page and more with details about your playing style.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Do any of you want to see Miri using different weapons like an Assault Rifle in ME3?

[Ieldra]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Swaggacide wrote...
I know we all love Miranda but what do you guys dislike about her

Regarding her personality, I don't dislike anything in particular.

I LOATHE the high heels during combat though. So I make her wear the armor.

edit: I also despise the fanservice they put in regarding her appearance. Not to say I don't like the way she looks, but I hate the mentality BioWare used when they sculpted her character model.

This.

What I otherwise don't like about her is the way she handled the confrontation with Jack. She has a few other problematic character traits, but they're so much part of her that I can't say I don't like them, because without them she would be a different person. 

[dill14491]

Miranda is so sexy. Her voice actor Yvonne Strahovski ( An Australian ) is even sexier.

[Ieldra]

Skullheart wrote...
Let's see, if Miranca could have a normal life, with no Cerberus or a monster father. What you think she would do for living?

Some time ago I thinked she could be a musician, for her interest on clasical music. But I think she'd have joined in the Ascencion Project. Helping biotic kids, the future of human biotics in a harmless way, and maybe helping another rare cases on Grissom Academy.

It is impossible to say. Her history made her who she is. Without her father being so cold-hearted, would she have developed a dedication to the advancement of humanity? Would she have developed that detached personality? It is impossible to say. There are a few plausible things: for instance she wouldn't be as uncomfortable with her enhancements had her father been a better father. But on the whole, Miranda without her history is not Miranda. You'd first have to explain which character traits you'd like to retain and why.

Having said that, Miranda in any kind of people-oriented position is.....not Miranda. She's dedicated to humanity as a whole, but empathy with individual humans isn't one of her strongest traits. She has it, but it applies to select cases. What she did at Lazarus - project lead of a cutting edge science project - is likely what fits her best.

[jlb524]

Ieldra2 wrote...
What I otherwise don't like about her is the way she handled the confrontation with Jack.

I hate that...hate it...I thought I was the only one.

It seems way out of character, to me. It's like they added in a fake romance confrontation that wasn't really a romance confrontation.

Ugh.

The whole scene seemed 'petty' to me...and I don't see Miranda as being petty in that way...or at all...I think of her as above petty stuff like that.

Modifié par jlb524, 29 janvier 2012 - 09:25 .

[Ieldra]

jlb524 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
What I otherwise don't like about her is the way she handled the confrontation with Jack.

I hate that...hate it...I thought I was the only one.

It seems way out of character, to me. It's like they added in a fake romance confrontation that wasn't really a romance confrontation.

Ugh.

The whole scene seemed 'petty' to me...and I don't see Miranda as being petty in that way...or at all...I think of her as above petty stuff like that.

You're not the only one by far. Many of us think that was added as drama for the sake of drama with little respect for the character. Miranda can be frighteningly cold - consider her reaction after you side with Jack - and that's fine with me, but she wouldn't be petty.  

[jlb524]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
What I otherwise don't like about her is the way she handled the confrontation with Jack.

I hate that...hate it...I thought I was the only one.

It seems way out of character, to me. It's like they added in a fake romance confrontation that wasn't really a romance confrontation.

Ugh.

The whole scene seemed 'petty' to me...and I don't see Miranda as being petty in that way...or at all...I think of her as above petty stuff like that.

You're not the only one by far. Many of us think that was added as drama for the sake of drama with little respect for the character. Miranda can be frighteningly cold - consider her reaction after you side with Jack - and that's fine with me, but she wouldn't be petty.  

Right...I think a proper 'cold' reaction from Miranda would be to placate Jack no matter what because she's an important member of the team and all that.  That's the reason my Shepard sides with Jack in that situation...she puts aside her personal feelings regarding the altercation just to keep Jack happy (who is the more emotional party for good reason).   My Shepard feels as if she can reason with Miranda there more than Jack...but I feel as if my Shepard shouldn't have to reason with Miranda there b/c Miranda should be thinking the same as her.

That's why I hate that scene...more so for Joker's "take pictures!" comment..ugh. 

Even if Miranda is in the right in that scene...even if my Shepard agrees that Miranda is in the right, I believe that it's wise for both of them to admit Jack is in the right because of the possible affect on the mission which is more important than pride.   I want to think that Miranda puts results above pride.  To me, that 'is' Miranda's character as I would like it to be, at least....it sucks that BW may feel different.

What I hate about that scene is if you do side with Jack, you have no ability to rationally explain your reasoning to Miranda...and Miranda just 'loses your loyalty' based on...that...aaaah...even though siding with Jack is the best response from a practical point of view (this is without the Paragon/Renegade option)

Modifié par jlb524, 29 janvier 2012 - 10:45 .

[Ieldra]

I don't agree that it's wise to side with Jack, even for appearances' sake. This isn't just about Cerberus, but also a fight to establish/break a pecking order. Miranda's Shepard's 2IC, she can't back down. *Especially* not since it appears Jack came barging in spoiling for a fight. That would be exactly the wrong message to send. And that's why I never side with Jack.

What Miranda should've done is avoid to escalate the situation. Saying something like "Look we don't agree about Cerberus, but can we discuss that when the mission is over?". The escalation with "You were a mistake", that's the problem, not Miranda's stance as such.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 janvier 2012 - 11:38 .

[jlb524]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I don't agree that it's wise to side with Jack, even for appearances' sake.

I respectfully disagree, and I think Miranda is in the right.

Ieldra2 wrote... 
This isn't just about Cerberus, but also a fight to establish/break a pecking order. Miranda's Shepard's 2IC, she can't back down. *Especially* not since it appears Jack came barging in spoiling for a fight. That would be exactly the wrong message to send. And that's why I never side with Jack.

IMO, the pecking order has already been established and Jack has no place in it.  If Miranda and Shepard 'backs down' to Jack I don't see how that undermines their authority.  Shepard does a lot of 'backing down' to appease his/her squad in the loyalty missions.  I think the 'pecking order' has to show that they care for the individuals on the ship and if they cannot demonstrate that they are willing to give a little then I don't think they will earn the respect of those under them.  Not doing so is a terrible idea, IMO.

Ieldra2 wrote...  
What Miranda should've done is avoid to escalate the situation. Saying something like "Look we don't agree about Cerberus, but can we discuss that when the mission is over?". The escalation with "You were a mistake", that's the problem, not Miranda's stance as such.

IMO, Miranda's stance is an issue.  She should have no reason to fear Jack's influence over Shepard especially if Shepard can explain his/her reasons for taking Jack's side as being practical.  The mission is to recruit powerful people to help you take on the Collectors...keeping these people satisfied is part of the mission.  Alienating them in any way is a bad idea...especially if you further alienate them from the source of funding for the mission (Cerberus).

Basically, Miranda should have faith in her ability to influence Shepard above some random criminal they picked up on a prison ship.  She shouldn't be insecure about that.  If Miranda knows that she has logic and reason on her side, why should she be worried about an emotional outburst from one of the crew?  

In my opinion, Miranda placating Jack and ensuring her that present-day Cerberus would never do anything like they did with the Subject Zero program and blah blah blah >> trying to establish some authority that already exists.

Modifié par jlb524, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:10 .

[Ieldra]

I do not think appeasement earns you respect. If you don't take a stand with people like Jack, it just encourages them to continue to behave in the same way, and chances are you'll come across as a dishonest manipulator as well. I agree that the wise thing would be to try to placate, in tone, but I would lose respect for anyone who'd use dishonest appeasement here. In fact, I might've come to seriously dislike Miranda had she done that. It would also be out of character.

From a meta-narrative viewpoint, it's bad enough having a character forced on you you feel doesn't fit with the mission.

Edit:
I think there are two aspects here: the Cerberus disagreement, and the fact that Jack was spoiling for a fight. You can be somewhat placating in the former, but you absolutely cannot tolerate the latter. You can say something similar to Jack after she extracted the data you promised her by herself.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:20 .

[jlb524]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I do not think appeasement earns you respect.

It can...

Ieldra2 wrote... 
If you don't take a stand with people like Jack, it just encourages them to continue to behave in the same way, and chances are you'll come across as a dishonest manipulator as well. I agree that the wise thing would be to try to placate, in tone, but I would lose respect for anyone who'd use dishonest appeasement here. In fact, I might've come to seriously dislike Miranda had she done that. It would also be out of character.

Hmmm...maybe I interpret Miranda differently.  I think Miranda would be on board with 'dishonest appeasment' if it gets the job done....I don't see her as being above emotional manipulation.   I'm not sure why you think that is wrong.  Well, it's classically wrong in the moral sense but...

I also think that taking a stand against a personality like Jack would only encourage further similar behavior since she's all about...fighting 'the system' so to speak.

Ieldra2 wrote... 
From a meta-narrative viewpoint, it's bad enough having a character forced on you you feel doesn't fit with the mission.

Jack is the most powerful human biotic and TIM felt that she would be useful...I'm not sure what grounds Miranda would have for not wanting her on the team.

Ieldra2 wrote...  
Edit:
I think there are two aspects here: the Cerberus disagreement, and the fact that Jack was spoiling for a fight. You can be somewhat placating in the former, but you absolutely cannot tolerate the latter. You can say something similar to Jack after she extracted the data you promised her by herself.

I think 'not tolerating someone looking for a fight' means not antagonizing them further and taking the higher ground...I don't think Miranda 'in game' did that.  If they just want a fight...don't give them that.

I also think that entire scene is completely OOC for Miranda.

[JosephDucreux]

You want a real challenge? Then play as an Engineer and take NOBODY but Jacob and Tali around with you. And don't select the AR training. ON INSANITY

If you can complete the campaign without killing yourself, Uncle Joe will award you 9001 internetz.

Moar pic.

[JosephDucreux]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I do not think appeasement earns you respect. If you don't take a stand with people like Jack, it just encourages them to continue to behave in the same way, and chances are you'll come across as a dishonest manipulator as well. I agree that the wise thing would be to try to placate, in tone, but I would lose respect for anyone who'd use dishonest appeasement here. In fact, I might've come to seriously dislike Miranda had she done that. It would also be out of character.

From a meta-narrative viewpoint, it's bad enough having a character forced on you you feel doesn't fit with the mission.

Edit:
I think there are two aspects here: the Cerberus disagreement, and the fact that Jack was spoiling for a fight. You can be somewhat placating in the former, but you absolutely cannot tolerate the latter. You can say something similar to Jack after she extracted the data you promised her by herself.

Both of them deserved a good verbal spanking. Jack was obviously stirrin' up sh*t, and I expected Miranda to handle the situation better. How I would've done it is to calm both of them down before giving them a stern warning, and then I'd tear into both of them in private.

Miranda appeasing Jack? Nope, not likely. But I could see Miri apologizing to Jack for her words during the fight.After all, it was pretty childish, and Miri's a mature enough woman that you can reason with her and get her to see her error.

[flemm]

jlb524 wrote...

The whole scene seemed 'petty' to me...and I don't see Miranda as being petty in that way...or at all...I think of her as above petty stuff like that.

Well, it's petty, at least to an extent, but I don't really agree that it's OOC. Sure, Miranda is not habitually petty, but is she incapable of being petty? I doubt it, especially when she's being aggressed like that. Also, there are actually a couple of important details contained in the dialog of that scene.

One is the "That wasn't Cerberus. Not really." line, which says a lot about Miranda's understanding of the organisation at that point in time. And the "You were a mistake." line, which is, of course, a failing on Miranda's part, but an interesting one, in that it's one of those moments where you can see her father's attitude coming through a bit in Miranda's thinking (seems to happen especially when she's mad/irritated).

Modifié par flemm, 29 janvier 2012 - 01:39 .

[Zkyire]

Going to chime in here with this:

Miranda's outfit vs Armour.

Miranda is a biotic and so doesn't neccessarily need armour as she can use her biotics to create a barrier around her body to protect her from harm.

But, wouldn't it make more sense for her to wear armour with a shield generator anyway so she doesn't HAVE TO use her biotics defensively? That way she can focus all her biotic power for offensive purposes, making her a more effective combatant.