82210 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

JosephDucreux wrote...

Miranda appeasing Jack? Nope, not likely. But I could see Miri apologizing to Jack for her words during the fight.After all, it was pretty childish, and Miri's a mature enough woman that you can reason with her and get her to see her error.

I don't see Miranda apologising to Jack. She might apologise to Shepherd in private for losing her temper but that would be it.

[flemm]

Zkyire wrote...
But, wouldn't it make more sense for her to wear armour with a shield generator anyway so she doesn't HAVE TO use her biotics defensively? That way she can focus all her biotic power for offensive purposes, making her a more effective combatant.

Well, personally, I like the idea of Miranda using tech armor. Not as an activatable ability, but just as her style of armor. She's a sentinel, and being a scientist is part of her background. Plus it doesn't have weight, wouldn't slow her down, could be deactivated when not needed, etc.

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

I'd love to see Miri in some light bodysuit as opposed to the clunker she wore in AAP2.

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

Correction: Light bodysuit ARMOR. My iPhone won't let mr edit my post. Grr.

[MisterJB]

jlb524 wrote...

Hmmm...maybe I interpret Miranda differently.  I think Miranda would be on board with 'dishonest appeasment' if it gets the job done....I don't see her as being above emotional manipulation.   I'm not sure why you think that is wrong.  Well, it's classically wrong in the moral sense but...

I also think that taking a stand against a personality like Jack would only encourage further similar behavior since she's all about...fighting 'the system' so to speak.

Maybe so but appeasing Jack was never the attitude Miranda decided to take. From her very first moment aboard the Normandy, Miranda tried to establish authority that the other clearly did not respect.
"I'm Miranda, Shepard's second in command. On this ship we follow orders."

So, we can argue wether or not this was the right attitude but I don't believe you can claim the scene to be OOC.

Modifié par MisterJB, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:42 .

[SamT3N7]

May be a stupid question but has Yvonne Strahovski been confirmed back for ME3?

[jtav]

Not as yet, but it's highly probable.

[SamT3N7]

jtav wrote...

Not as yet, but it's highly probable.

I hope so.  The stuff going on with Mordin's voice actor has me worried. 

[Ieldra]

jlb524 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...  
I think there are two aspects here: the Cerberus disagreement, and the fact that Jack was spoiling for a fight. You can be somewhat placating in the former, but you absolutely cannot tolerate the latter. You can say something similar to Jack after she extracted the data you promised her by herself.

I think 'not tolerating someone looking for a fight' means not antagonizing them further and taking the higher ground...I don't think Miranda 'in game' did that.  If they just want a fight...don't give them that.

I also think that entire scene is completely OOC for Miranda.

I'm fine with "not antagonizing them further". I totally agree Miranda shouldn't have done that and yes, actually it is a little out of character that she does. But it's a long way from there to apologizing for appearances' sake. This also ties in to Miranda's deepest loyalties, it would have been out of character had she given in there.

[Ieldra]

JosephDucreux wrote...
You want a real challenge? Then play as an Engineer and take NOBODY but Jacob and Tali around with you. And don't select the AR training. ON INSANITY

If you can complete the campaign without killing yourself, Uncle Joe will award you 9001 internetz.

I have an Engineer run I completed on Insanity with Jacob and Miranda without the AR training. That was where I earned the Insanity achievement. The only thing I had to skip was that damnable "Quarian Crash Site" assignment. Damned armored warren.

[jtav]

Can the writer ask a question? Due to my upbringing, I have an old-fashioned view of gender relations, so my view of appropriateness is skewed. Would you lose sympathy for a Shepard who punched Miranda hard enough to give her a bloody nose? They aren't in a romance and they disagree violently about Overlord.

[Skullheart]

jtav wrote...

Can the writer ask a question? Due to my upbringing, I have an old-fashioned view of gender relations, so my view of appropriateness is skewed. Would you lose sympathy for a Shepard who punched Miranda hard enough to give her a bloody nose? They aren't in a romance and they disagree violently about Overlord.

It would depend on how Shepard deal with it after he punchs her. Miranda is a reasonable women, there isn't much to say about Shepard if  he couldn't solve thing with words.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Can the writer ask a question? Due to my upbringing, I have an old-fashioned view of gender relations, so my view of appropriateness is skewed. Would you lose sympathy for a Shepard who punched Miranda hard enough to give her a bloody nose? They aren't in a romance and they disagree violently about Overlord.

I admit to being a little shocked by the idea, but I would override my first reaction as a result of a cultural conditioning I wish to overcome. If Miranda shows a strong reaction - not necessarly a violent one, just one that establishes her as a character of equal presence and determination - then it would be OK. It's possible that the latter needs to be a little over the top to drive the point home that a man hitting a woman isn't by default worse than vice versa.

It also depends on Shepard's reaction after the fact. I don't think he should be contrite - that would be out of character for Lawrence, but more annoyed with himself for losing control. 

 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 janvier 2012 - 05:09 .

[ThomGau]

Are you talking about MShep ?

If so, I wouldn't appreciate him punching a women . Especially Miranda who is mature and reasonnable,  with her, there are other ways to solve a disagreement.
It would be a big flaw : he can't solve conflicts without using violence .

Modifié par ThomGau, 29 janvier 2012 - 05:11 .

[Ieldra]

Thomgau, this is about jtav's Lawrence Shepard in her fanfic "Ghost in the Machine". And this is a very in-character flaw for him. How it comes across depends on the details.

[jtav]

I just feel like I need to do something drastic to show that they were not in the middle of a Slap Slap Kiss relationship during ME2 and what exactly their disagreements were, so I wanted them to live down to their reputations of a brutish thug whose hatred for Cerberus clouds everything and a heartless b*tch willing to torture someone for the greater good. And harming children or the mentally ill is his berserk button.

[ThomGau]

Thanks for the info Ieldra.

Well, if it is an in-character flaw, I guess it would be appropriate from him ... but still, I have to admit I'd be shocked.

I'd gladly take a look at this fanfic if some chapters are already written jtav.

Modifié par ThomGau, 29 janvier 2012 - 05:24 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I just feel like I need to do something drastic to show that they were not in the middle of a Slap Slap Kiss relationship during ME2 and what exactly their disagreements were, so I wanted them to live down to their reputations of a brutish thug whose hatred for Cerberus clouds everything and a heartless b*tch willing to torture someone for the greater good. And harming children or the mentally ill is his berserk button.

Is Miranda really like that in your fanfic? I don't think she'd have supported putting David in that contraption. She would have supported what went on before (which wasn't problematic at all), and she might support making a "well-cared for lab rat" of him, but something that amounts to torture? She'd not do that to an innocent.

@ThomGau:
Ghost in the Machine

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 janvier 2012 - 05:34 .

[jtav]

Kinda. She has some very harsh words for Archer and the only reason she doesn't kill him is because TIM might have a use for the wretch. But she wants Overlord continued without the contraption, and controlling/communicating with the geth seemed to be causing David pain even beforehand--and she can live with that. Lawrence can't.

[A. Lemon]

jtav wrote...

Can the writer ask a question? Due to my upbringing, I have an old-fashioned view of gender relations, so my view of appropriateness is skewed. Would you lose sympathy for a Shepard who punched Miranda hard enough to give her a bloody nose? They aren't in a romance and they disagree violently about Overlord.

My respect for Shepard would drop to a fat zero, yes.

[Dr. Doctor]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't agree that it's wise to side with Jack, even for appearances' sake. This isn't just about Cerberus, but also a fight to establish/break a pecking order. Miranda's Shepard's 2IC, she can't back down. *Especially* not since it appears Jack came barging in spoiling for a fight. That would be exactly the wrong message to send. And that's why I never side with Jack.

I sort of look at it like this, Jack just destroyed the symbol of all the wrongs that Cerberus inflicted on her and that's a major victory in her book. People other than her have seen that Cerberus is wrong and what better way to rub that in than rubbing it in the face of the person who's pretty much the face of Cerberus on the Normandy?

The thing is that Miranda isn't going to admit that Cerberus is in the wrong, even if she starts having doubts of his intentions after the Collector Ship mission she's not going to admit that to Jack of all people. So it just turns into a fun game of unstoppable force versus immovable object until Shepard intervenes. I have to back Miranda because she's my XO and it doesn't exactly help morale to have the executive staff look like they can't work together. If need be I can always talk to Jack and use the Renegade "I have to give Cerberus a little lip service every now and then" option.


My issue with the Loyalty Conflicts is that they don't succede in adding drama to the game, they just make me lose some respect for the characters involved. Especially the one between Tali and Legion.

[A. Lemon]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

No I love Miri's comment towards Kaidan, "Typical Alliance attitude. You're so focused on Cerberus that you're blind to the real threat."

I like that comment as well, though Miranda makes it towards Ashley in my games, since I always leave Kaidan to die.

And @Dr.- I thought the Lip Service line was the paragon pick.

Modifié par A. Lemon, 29 janvier 2012 - 06:53 .

[Elvis_Shepard]

1257 mo****ing pages!

[Ieldra]

Miranda's LM is coming up in my lastest playthrough :)

Let's see if I can get some nice shots with the high-res AAP2 armor.



Did some things I never did before in this playthrough. Didn't know you could provoke that krogan scout on Mordin's LM into attacking you. Nice, now he can't tell anyone about the genophage cure.

@Dr.Doctor:
I usually side with Miranda and leave it that way. I don't like lying to Jack about paying lip service. I usually have enough power in my team that Jack survives if I want her to anyway. Not sure who I should make my token death this time. I'd hate to lose ME3 content.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 janvier 2012 - 07:04 .

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I do not think appeasement earns you respect. If you don't take a stand with people like Jack, it just encourages them to continue to behave in the same way,

I was just thinking this yesterday when I finally saved the workers on Zaeed's LM. I had initially gone into it with the intention of saving them but 1) I, the player really wanted to kill Vido and as Zaeed was talking about surviving a headshot I began thinking my ruthless Shepard would appreciate such a resiliant fighter being loyal, mad dog though he may be. This would be better justification then what I had initially presented so I was going to scrifice them again. I expect a similar justification could be made for siding with Jack. You know Miranda's professional enough to follow your orders even if she has beef with you but you want Jack personally loyal so you can harness all that destructive power for yourself.
But the more I went into Zaeed's mission (reloading after a couple of key dialogs) the more it occurred to me that like Ieldra said, you need to take a stand and do so early. You don't loose the leash of the mad dog in hopes that he'll recognize that you let him and be grateful, you break him to your will. Luckily the game allowed me to do so in a most satisfying manner.

As for Miranda/Jack, Jack is actually right (to an extent). She's wrong to blame Miranda since Miranda had nothing to do with Teltin. But even that can be explained as Miranda is just an outlet, the face of Cerberus (or the only one available) to Jack. Even so, the way she goes about it is completely unacceptable and given how unstable she really is, like with Zaeed you cannot yield. Come to think of it I'm liking the paragon/renegade fixes (particularly renegade) more and more. I think siding with Miranda has its own problems because Jack will not interpret this the "normal" way, as solidarity within the chain of command. Rather she'll see it as ganging up on her. But "only my opinion matters" dickish though it may seem sends a clearer message: you can't resolve this on your own, I'm in charge and I say STFU.
I have other beef with the Miranda/Jack argument mostly Miranda's reaction after if you don't side with her or charm/persuade. But we've gone over that to death. Consider it something I don't like about Miranda (that was the question that started this I think).