82210 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

Well I have no idea what that was about. But I remember thinking code names/alias would be a fun topic. So if anyone's still up for discussing it we can keep going. I'd still like to know why mythological naming is so entrenched in people's minds.

[nitefyre410]

I'm OCD about thematic Elements - Cerberus Mythological guardian of the underworld.

I just like to keep it lines with that them... plus there a crap load of pantheons that go through to find a code name from Greek to Shinto and everything in between.

[parthian]

I'm stuck at uni ATM and have been spacing out thinking about ME-related matters.

Here's an interesting topic that's probably been discussed in this thread already, but whatever: how do you lot think Miranda would've handled the Rachni Queen and Council decisions respectively, mindful of her pragmatic orientation?

[CrutchCricket]

nitefyre410 wrote...

I'm OCD about thematic Elements - Cerberus Mythological guardian of the underworld.

I just like to keep it lines with that them... plus there a crap load of pantheons that go through to find a code name from Greek to Shinto and everything in between.

I don't know if I'd qualify it as a "thematic element" though seeing as how it is just one aspect of the Mass Effect story. It's a bigger part of Miranda's story but again it's not what defines her.

I'm not opposed to more mythological references if they fit. I just don't think it should be restricted to that alone.

parthian: Regarding the council I believe she'd do as I did: focus all attacks on Sovereign and sacrifice the council. I did it for purely pragmatic reasons- Sovereign was the biggest threat. If he opened the relay it was all over. It needed to be stopped no matter the cost. I suspect Miranda would have even less qualms as she'd recognize the opportunity humanity would have in the resulting power vacuum (provided we survived).
The Rachni queen is trickier. I think I'll let someone else tackle this one.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 30 janvier 2012 - 03:28 .

[jtav]

Council - concentrate on Sovereign
Rachni - Spare the Queen. Miranda's ruthless, but the Queen hasn't actually done anything. Genocide requires more cause than she has.

[wright1978]

Rachni seems easy enough. Miranda's very cautious so think she would have killed queen.
Council decision is to me much trickier. Ithink she would have seen the benefits of saving them & it would have then come down to her assessment of whether saving them would endanger the mission.

[CrutchCricket]

I wonder if she'd identify with the Rachni queen on some level. Jack would, more so but still...

[MACharlie1]

Sacrifice the Council and maybe even save the Rachni. Remember the first lines she says: she sounds impressed if Shep sacrificed the council but not so much if he saved them. As for the Rachni, I can almost see her saying: we can use her. She might be a valuable asset.

"How many would we have lost on Eden Prime if we had just a dozen Rachni soldiers on our side?"

[Td1984]

Hmmm. Maybe on my canon run with my MShep, I'll sacrifice the council (if it doesn't present any serious repercussions down the line) and put Anderson in charge (no way I'd ever put Udina in as councilor).

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Council - concentrate on Sovereign
Rachni - Spare the Queen. Miranda's ruthless, but the Queen hasn't actually done anything. Genocide requires more cause than she has.

Exactly.

There's also the fact that a living queen has cause to be grateful. Gaining her as an ally is desirable.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Council - concentrate on Sovereign
Rachni - Spare the Queen. Miranda's ruthless, but the Queen hasn't actually done anything. Genocide requires more cause than she has.

Exactly.

There's also the fact that a living queen has cause to be grateful. Gaining her as an ally is desirable.

Intrigued that so many peopl think Miranda would release queen. Responses to Legion/Grunt scenarios suggests the opposite.

[Ieldra]

It could be argued that Miranda would kill the queen with some justification, yes. But there are imporant differences to the other scenarios. Killing the Rachni queen would be genocide, killing Grunt or Legion would be just killing one of countless geth or krogan. Also the difference to the Legion scenario isn't so great - she wants it reactivated under controlled conditions. It's Jacob who wants to "space it".

[AgitatedLemon]

JosephDucreux wrote...

Okay, so both the Excited Citrus Fruit and Swaggacide got verboten? While Quole Buu didn't?

BSN mods, I am disappoint. Do your jobs, yo.

Anyways, Miranda would more likely than not overplan the first date with Shepard, and he'll try his damndest to get her to be spontaneous. We'll have to see how that goes.

Nah. I'm here.

[AgitatedLemon]

wright1978 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Council - concentrate on Sovereign
Rachni - Spare the Queen. Miranda's ruthless, but the Queen hasn't actually done anything. Genocide requires more cause than she has.

Exactly.

There's also the fact that a living queen has cause to be grateful. Gaining her as an ally is desirable.

Intrigued that so many peopl think Miranda would release queen. Responses to Legion/Grunt scenarios suggests the opposite.

Grunt and Legion are different.

The krogan are inherently dangerous to everyone. They don't hide it, and EVERYONE acknowledges it. They're predators. The geth (all that we knew anyway) were all following Sovereign, and at the time, no one knew of any non-heretic geth.

The rachni queen is just sitting in the labs, minding her own business. She's not hostile in the slightest, and even pleads to Shepard to kill her brainwashed children.

In regards to the Council... I really don't know. Both options are tactically viable in their own ways. I'm drawing a blank on this.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 30 janvier 2012 - 04:54 .

[CrutchCricket]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
Grunt and Legion are different.

The krogan are inherently dangerous to everyone. They don't hide it, and EVERYONE acknowledges it. They're predators. The geth (all that we knew anyway) were all following Sovereign, and at the time, no one knew of any non-heretic geth.

The rachni queen is just sitting in the labs, minding her own business. She's not hostile in the slightest, and even pleads to Shepard to kill her brainwashed children.

In regards to the Council... I really don't know. Both options are tactically viable in their own ways. I'm drawing a blank on this.

Yeah and the krogan were loosed because the rachni were overwhelming. They're both dangerous and everyone knows it.

Legion and Grunt are just sitting in their AI room/tank respectively, minding their own business. They're even less hostile on account of the fact that they're unconscious.

There's no functional difference between the scenarios. I'm inclined to agree with Ieldra that genocide was one differentiating factor though I'm not sure that's a difference in pragmatics, just in morality.

[AgitatedLemon]

And even then, during the rachni wars, they were only hostile due to the implied indoctrination. The queen tells you on Illium (via the asari) that the rachni are naturally docile, albeit territorial.

[spirosz]

^ We still don't know if that's true though (I do believe it), but there's always a possibility that she is lying.

[AgitatedLemon]

spiros9110 wrote...

^ We still don't know if that's true though (I do believe it), but there's always a possibility that she is lying.

I'm going to take it as true, seeing as how she had zero reason to lie to Shepard. It wasn't like he would hunt her down or anything, he has no knowledge of where she is.

Plus she's genuinely grateful for her release on Noveria, and follows up on her promise to not mess with anyone.

[Ieldra]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
And even then, during the rachni wars, they were only hostile due to the implied indoctrination. The queen tells you on Illium (via the asari) that the rachni are naturally docile, albeit territorial.

That wouldn't influence a decision made in ME1. You didn't know all that then.

[CrutchCricket]

You also didn't know that at the time of the decision just as you didn't know of the Heretic-True Geth distinction.

Edit:'d. Should come up with a with rule for this, something to do just for the lulz. Like if you get ninja'd come up with a new topic or post a pic.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 30 janvier 2012 - 05:28 .

[wright1978]

She could have every reason to lie. Just as the asari Elnora had every reason to lie to Shepherd.

[spirosz]

With all these decisions though, I'm glad Miranda wasn't the one making the decisions. I know she tries to pull off the cold demeanor, but a lot of these decisions we've faced throughout the two games as Shepard, would of changed her in some way or at least give her a different perspective from who she is now (they did change my Shepard). I'm also not arguing about what's right/wrong or if it was the most logical choice, but those decisions would of stuck with her and it would of been interesting to her at this point if she made similar decisions throughout her life.

Plus if any outcome involved her sister in the future, I would see her going off her emotional state instead of thinking it through, even with all her training and it experience. When it's something personal, logic usually gets thrown out the window.

Modifié par spiros9110, 30 janvier 2012 - 05:31 .

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...
There's no functional difference between the scenarios. I'm inclined to agree with Ieldra that genocide was one differentiating factor though I'm not sure that's a difference in pragmatics, just in morality.

Both. From a pragmatist's viewpoint the moral choice is still more desirable with everything else being equal. There was some reason to believe the queen would be grateful and could be won over as an ally, There was also reason to suspect she would be hostile on grounds of the Rachni Wars, but that was two thousand years ago. I'd say the risks and benefits are at least equal, if not favorable for sparing her.

[CrutchCricket]

I'm thinking the analysis would conclude slightly in favor towards killing her. The Rachni are one of the few alien species we've encountered that are actually fundamentally different from us. What proof do we have that they would understand much less possess the concept of gratefulness? It could just be pulling that from the mind of its asari puppet. Hostility on the other hand we know full well they understand.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

To whoever is reporting AgitatedLemon: Please stop, he didn't do anything wrong.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 30 janvier 2012 - 06:07 .