82210 réponses à ce sujet

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

jtav wrote...

And, well, I have a feeling that krogan tradition dictates that those who were the best at killing things get command positions.

Probably. Wrex seems to be an exception, since he's quite smart, other than strong and good at killing.

Wrex proved himself at being adept at killing with Brute force. The kind of Insight Wrex has is due to life experience. He isn't book smart like Mordin or Miranda, but life and street smart from the life he's lived, not unlike Thane and not that different of a skill set.

I'd say he's more "wise" than "intelligent".

Not to say Wrex is dumb, because he isn't. He's certainly more intelligent than most krogan we see. His unification of the clans is a testament to this.

[AgitatedLemon]

MisterJB wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
There's also Grunt's naivete and mental state to cope with. He's 6 months old, he's not a tactician. He doesn't really have the experience or the knowledge to lead a squad of commandos.

If he were... like, say for example... a Sergeant underneath Shepard's Lieutenant, then it would make sense, but if he's heading a squad of commandos then no, I don't believe he should be in that position.

First of all, how many tactics do Krogan soldiers employ anyway?

Second, Grunt doesn't have much experience leading, true. But do not forget that he was taught in the tank strategies from the greatest Krogan Warlords.

Hell, his own name says he's the follower, and not the leader.

A name that he gave himself before he was accepted into the clan.

The tactics they employ depends on the warlord in command.

And Grunt gave himself that name based on the premise of "It's short, simple, and matches the training in my blood". Again, reaffirming that he isn't really a leader. He's the stereotypical brawn>brains character.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 10 février 2012 - 01:26 .

[android654]

jtav wrote...

Why do you think I'm livid and alternately threatening to kill Oriana or discarding Miranda in favor of her? Miranda doesn't spend any time really thinking or talking about Cerberus. Oriana is consuming all of her attention. Kelly gets more along those lines. Miranda's connection to Cerberus feels incidental.

I'm not sure if the SM is to blame for this or if they were relying too heavily on angst from ME1 fans once ME2 was released, but this idea to sideline everyone was poorly done. Miranda, being the character with the most relevance in ME2 and practically putting her in the top 3 of important characters in the story thus far should've been important enough to the writers to give her a story tied to the organization that's the primary antagonist for this series.

[schemata]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

kainee wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

While I think it's silly to create a character that even the creators don't like, I see what you mean. Like I said before, I'm given the impression that 1 or a more of her writers don't like her, as given by the LotSB dossier.

Unfortunately I don't think the creators and supporters of Miranda are still in charge of the character or are still in the Bioware team.
I felt this lack of support for Miranda just after ME2. It's like they decided to sacrifice this character ... don't know why. <_<

AFAIK, all the writers are still there. There's Mac, Drew, Patrick, etc.

I honestly felt the opposite you did. I felt (and still feel) that it's rather pointless to build up this character in such a major fashion as they did with Miranda, and just... *poof*, nothing. Is there a trope for that somewhere?

song of fire and ice trope? Or more widely known as game of thrones trope!

[jtav]

She should at least be wrestling internally with the fact that Cerberus has been revealed as space N*zis at she was a very high-ranking member .Kelly gets that, but it's swept under the rug for Miranda, as if they were afraid of it.

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Why do you think I'm livid and alternately threatening to kill Oriana or discarding Miranda in favor of her? Miranda doesn't spend any time really thinking or talking about Cerberus. Oriana is consuming all of her attention. Kelly gets more along those lines. Miranda's connection to Cerberus feels incidental.

I'm not sure if the SM is to blame for this or if they were relying too heavily on angst from ME1 fans once ME2 was released, but this idea to sideline everyone was poorly done. Miranda, being the character with the most relevance in ME2 and practically putting her in the top 3 of important characters in the story thus far should've been important enough to the writers to give her a story tied to the organization that's the primary antagonist for this series.

Don't start making sense now.

And I'd pin the blame more on the SM than anything. The concept of it is really stupid, considering they pulled it off in the 2ND PART OF THE TRILOGY. "Wasted potential" for Miranda doesn't even remotely begin to describe it.

[Avy DiSartori]

I think she still cares for humanity and all the other important things, but all her actions related to this important issues happen off screen.. the few times she appears on screen, she is dealing with her personal problems, and this gives us the impression she is only focused on her sister. (then again, this is extremely lazy writing from bioware.. I'm not defending them AT ALL, in order not to explore her huge influence in the main story, they conclude her arc off screen). Therefore, It's not because Bioware is lazy, that you can accuse Miranda of being only worried with Oriana all the time.. think about it: the game has 25 hours or more of gameplay, and she only has 20 minutes of screen time.. I think it's safe to say that during all those 24 hours and 40 minutes, she had the time to deal with many professional problems.. just my opinion though..

[MisterJB]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
The tactics they employ depends on the warlord in command.

And we know that Grunt knows tactics.

And Grunt gave himself that name based on the premise of "It's short, simple, and matches the training in my blood". Again, reaffirming that he isn't really a leader.

True but unlike in human military, krogan battlemasters (the krogans who lead other krogans into battle) do not lead from the back. Krogan leaders fight on the frontlines with everyone else, this is stated by Grunt if you keep the CB. He calls TIM "weak" because he sends others to fight for him.
So, being trained to fight on the frontlines does not exclude Grunt from a leading position.

Modifié par MisterJB, 10 février 2012 - 01:30 .

[Skullheart]

Leaving something like her principles off screen is even worse...

[MisterJB]

jtav wrote...

She should at least be wrestling internally with the fact that Cerberus has been revealed as space N*zis at she was a very high-ranking member .Kelly gets that, but it's swept under the rug for Miranda, as if they were afraid of it.

I find it extremely hard to believe that the writers would just overlook this. It's just something so...obvious.

[AgitatedLemon]

Avy DiSartori wrote...

I think she still cares for humanity and all the other important things, but all her actions related to this important issues happen off screen.. the few times she appears on screen, she is dealing with her personal problems, and this gives us the impression she is only focused on her sister. (then again, this is extremely lazy writing from bioware.. I'm not defending them AT ALL, in order not to explore her huge influence in the main story, they conclude her arc off screen). Therefore, It's not because Bioware is lazy, that you can accuse Miranda of being only worried with Oriana all the time.. think about it: the game has 25 hours or more of gameplay, and she only has 20 minutes of screen time.. I think it's safe to say that during all those 24 hours and 40 minutes, she had the time to deal with many professional problems.. just my opinion though..

That's... An interesting way to look at it. Really, I hadn't thought about it that way before. If that is the case though, it's a terrible cop-out, and Bioware should be ashamed to even consider it.

[jtav]

Yeah, it's a copout. I can fill in the gaps, but I shouldn't have to on something like this.

[AgitatedLemon]

MisterJB wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
The tactics they employ depends on the warlord in command.

And we know that Grunt knows tactics.

And Grunt gave himself that name based on the premise of "It's short, simple, and matches the training in my blood". Again, reaffirming that he isn't really a leader.

True but unlike in human military, krogan battlemasters (the krogans who lead other krogans into battle) do not lead from the back. Krogan leaders fight on the frontlines with everyone else, this is stated by Grunt if you keep the CB. He calls TIM "weak" because he sends others to fight for him.
So, being trained to fight on the frontlines does not exclude Grunt from a leading position.

It doesn't automatically qualify him as an able leader, either.

Especially leading a squadron of commandos.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

until the game comes when we wont know the full extent of Miranda's involvement

[jtav]

No, we won't, but what isn't there is worrying. There's a point where putting your hope in material yet to be written crosses the line into wishful thinking.

[AgitatedLemon]

jtav wrote...

No, we won't, but what isn't there is worrying. There's a point where putting your hope in material yet to be written crosses the line into wishful thinking.

I think we're coming dangerously close to crossing that line.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

jtav wrote...

No, we won't, but what isn't there is worrying. There's a point where putting your hope in material yet to be written crosses the line into wishful thinking.

yes. U need to finish the game to find out everything

[schemata]

if closure comes via email, id be beyond upset. And its the ending that most fits with the leaked script

[android654]

schemata wrote...

if closure comes via email, id be beyond upset. And its the ending that most fits with the leaked script

This is why I kind of don't want to get this game. I feel like the handling of my favorite characters will be done poorly.

[schemata]

android654 wrote...

schemata wrote...

if closure comes via email, id be beyond upset. And its the ending that most fits with the leaked script

This is why I kind of don't want to get this game. I feel like the handling of my favorite characters will be done poorly.

dude I gotta ask how can you not love the direction of jack? Where were you wanting her character to go?

[JosephDucreux]

All this speculation is really pointless. Firstly, I couldn't make heads or tails out of Miranda's role from the leaked script, and there were obvious 'oh we'll do it later, let's go for a weed break now' gaps in Miranda's storyline. Secondly, how do we know that the Russians who leaked it weren't trolling us by intentionally omitting Miranda from the script or they accidentally missed out on some parts?

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

schemata wrote...

if closure comes via email, id be beyond upset. And its the ending that most fits with the leaked script

This is why I kind of don't want to get this game. I feel like the handling of my favorite characters will be done poorly.

I'll be totally honest for a second here.

I've considered cancelling my pre-order, based off of the character treatment, and not only for Miranda.

Of course, no point in doing it now, since the game is so close to release.

[MisterJB]

JosephDucreux wrote...
Secondly, how do we know that the Russians who leaked it weren't trolling us by intentionally omitting Miranda from the script or they accidentally missed out on some parts?

The second leak was mined by our Vertigo.

[jtav]

I think the game will be fantastic. I'm just not really sure I want Miranda in it. The irony is that I love Oriana – or at least one version of her – to little bitty pieces.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

JosephDucreux wrote...

All this speculation is really pointless. Firstly, I couldn't make heads or tails out of Miranda's role from the leaked script, and there were obvious 'oh we'll do it later, let's go for a weed break now' gaps in Miranda's storyline. Secondly, how do we know that the Russians who leaked it weren't trolling us by intentionally omitting Miranda from the script or they accidentally missed out on some parts?

I agree. Thats why im not making judgements until the game comes out