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[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

....

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 14 juin 2011 - 11:35 .

[Vertigo_1]

jtav wrote...

It was, but she talks about Miranda a fair bit, and I wanted to poll the peanut gallery on the points specifically mentioned. And maybe I'm feeling just a little defensive at the moment since I've received some "you aren't a real Miranda fan" flak because my priority is answering and mitigating these criticisms because I find them legitimate to a certain degree.

I understand.
Who ever did that should knock it off.
We are all Miranda fans here no matter what you like or don't like.  No matter what you want to see from her in ME3, temp or permanent squadmate.
A real Miranda fan doesn't have to like everything, they can dislike parts of the romance, or certain dialogue.  They can dislike the catsuit and prefer the armor or vice versa or both.  I could go on but I think you get the point.
Sure we all have our different opinions about what we think Miranda did here or there, but we can all agree that in general we like the character.

This is something we need to agree on...

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 14 juin 2011 - 11:37 .

[Caihn]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

SoulfulStarfish wrote...

I love this one

Yeah love this wink. 

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Now I regret saying my other comment. Cuz People think That I only think of Miri as "eye candy."

IT'S NOT LIKE THAT!!!!

I care about Miri. She is a Beautiful, Strong, Intelligent, Confident, and Competent Woman.

A Perfect Marksman and a Great Leader.

She is my one and only LI in the series.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 14 juin 2011 - 11:36 .

[jtav]

How does it not belong here? She does discuss Miranda fairly extensively. Are the criticisms of her and her loyalty mission valid? Why or why not? I think she's overly strident, but I think there's some valid points buried within. Some of the camera angles are ridiculous to the point where you could almost hear the developers snickering. And consider the fight we just had over her resignation. A lot of the confusion that some of us feel could be cleared up if she had an additional mission that forced her to come to grips with the fact that Cerberus did horrible things.

[The Uncanny]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

We are all Miranda fans here no matter what you like or don't like.  No matter what you want to see from her in ME3, temp or permanent squadmate.

Sure we all have our different opinions about what we think Miranda did here or there, but we can all agree that in general we like the character.

This is something we need to agree on...

Come together, don't pull apart.

I'm behind that 100%. Miranda needs us and that is why we're here. 

[Vertigo_1]

jtav wrote...

How does it not belong here? She does discuss Miranda fairly extensively. Are the criticisms of her and her loyalty mission valid? Why or why not? I think she's overly strident, but I think there's some valid points buried within. Some of the camera angles are ridiculous to the point where you could almost hear the developers snickering. And consider the fight we just had over her resignation. A lot of the confusion that some of us feel could be cleared up if she had an additional mission that forced her to come to grips with the fact that Cerberus did horrible things.

I have to agree on the bolded part
There was even an interview with Casey Hudson that asked him directly about those scenes but as usual he evaded/acted like it was no big deal

As for the underlined part perhaps this will be explained in ME3?

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 14 juin 2011 - 11:39 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

^ ....trying to get my point across so people will NOT think I'm some kind of pervert. ^

[Vertigo_1]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

^ ....trying to get my point across so people will NOT think I'm some kind of pervert. ^

You're not a pervert MASSEFFECTfanforlife101

[LiquidGrape]

I don't see how that kind of discussion, as it pertains to Miranda, isn't relevant. Sure, it might not be the most popular topic, but I'm not comfortable with people dictating what can and cannot be up for debate if it has some reasonable connection to the subject matter.

Namely...Miranda! And we all like Miranda, right?

As for those articles...I do think the fundamental concerns are sincere and legitimate. The method of the author, however...less so.
It's fairly reductive and removes the physical portrayal of characters from their actual characterisation, which renders many of her arguments rather lacking in contextual weight.
And the photo analysis is just silly.

The one point she makes on the subject of Miranda which I will subscribe to is the camera.
While I admit to appreciating the...uh...'generous' angles, sometimes they seemed thoroughly incongruous.
I mean, I don't see how Miranda's very impressive cheeks have any relevance whatsoever to the topic of her estranged sister...

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 14 juin 2011 - 11:54 .

[jlb524]

jtav wrote...

Are the criticisms of her and her loyalty mission valid?

RE:  the touchy-feely stuff...I'm not sure, given that there was emotional stuff added in with some of the male LI's loyalty missions as well (even Garrus' at the end)...the addition of emotions may have more to do with her being an LI than her being a female.

Grunt and Zaeed, on the other hand, weren't LIs.

[MisterJB]

LiquidGrape wrote...
 I don't see how Miranda's very impressive cheeks have any relevance whatsoever to the topic of her estranged sister...

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a minute. Miranda admits that her looks were designed to give her an edge and, during that particular scene, she is asking Shepard for a favor. So, she chose that position on purpose.

Modifié par MisterJB, 14 juin 2011 - 11:48 .

[jtav]

And, if you're FemShep?

I would really liked it if she did attempt to seduce Shepard into helping her. That's part of what femme fatale means after all. Right now, the fan service elements just kind of sit there.

[Caihn]

LiquidGrape wrote...

I don't see how that kind of discussion, as it pertains to Miranda, isn't relevant. Sure, it might not be the most popular topic, but I'm not comfortable with people dictating what can and cannot be up for debate if it has some reasonable connection to the subject matter.
Namely...Miranda! And we all like Miranda, right?

Sorry.
I thought it was pointless to discuss these articles because there is already a thread about this. And the Miranda part also have been alredy disscussed.

But if we can talk about every subjects related to Miranda, I hope nobody will argue when there will be some discussions about her VA.

As for those articles, I do think the fundamental concerns are sincere and legitimate. The method of the author, however...less so. It's fairly reductive and removes the physical portrayal of characters from their characterisation, which renders many of her arguments rather lacking in contextual weight.
And the photo analysis is just silly.

I agree.
And that's why I can't take seriously her arguments.

The one point she makes on the subject of Miranda which I will subscribe to is the camera.
While I admit to appreciating the...uh...'generous' angles, sometimes they seemed thoroughly incongruous.
I mean, I don't see how Miranda's very impressive cheeks have any relevance whatsoever to the topic of her estranged sister...

There are some camera angles I found disturbing like the one before her LM.
But, for the others, we always see this kind of camera angles in all kind of movies or TV shows ... why not in games ?

Modifié par Yannkee, 15 juin 2011 - 12:02 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I just read the criticizing remarks about Miri in that article. What an ass! D:<

[Caihn]

MisterJB wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...
 I don't see how Miranda's very impressive cheeks have any relevance whatsoever to the topic of her estranged sister...

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a minute. Miranda admits that her looks were designed to give her an edge and, during that particular scene, she is asking Shepard for a favor. So, she chose that position on purpose.

Personally, she doesn't have to do that to convice my Shepard to help her 

[TheMarshal]

jtav wrote...

And, if you're FemShep?

I would really liked it if she did attempt to seduce Shepard into helping her. That's part of what femme fatale means after all. Right now, the fan service elements just kind of sit there.

Well...  they're not entirely lost on FemShep, depending on the FemShep, that is...  >.>  But if, indeed, Miranda were trying to seduce Shepard into helping her, I think the camera angles were a little too subtle.  I don't actually think she was trying to do so, which means they were just there for titillation.

[The Uncanny]

jtav wrote...

And, if you're FemShep?

Depends on the FemShep... 

Edit: Lol! Ninja'd!

Modifié par The Uncanny, 14 juin 2011 - 11:59 .

[TheMarshal]

Yannkee wrote...

There are some camera angles I found disturbing like the one before her LM.
But, for the others, we always see this kind of camera angles in all kind of movies or TV shows ... why not in games ?

I don't think the camera angles we see on attractive female characters in TV/Movies are anywhere near as bad as we saw in ME2.  Or if they are that bad, at least they're genuine about their intention (i.e. slow-motion, close-ups, etc.)

[Denali2]

The cat fight is going to be awesome on The Normandy between Ashely and Miranda.

[MisterJB]

jtav wrote...

And, if you're FemShep?

Judging from some of the banners I'm seeing on this thread, I'd say it worked.

Miranda witnessed first hand the trials Liara went through to recuperate FemShep's body, she could have assumed something was going on there and..."migth as well"? She lost nothing by trying.

Modifié par MisterJB, 15 juin 2011 - 12:03 .

[jtav]

TheMarshal wrote...

jtav wrote...

And, if you're FemShep?

I would really liked it if she did attempt to seduce Shepard into helping her. That's part of what femme fatale means after all. Right now, the fan service elements just kind of sit there.

Well...  they're not entirely lost on FemShep, depending on the FemShep, that is...  >.>  But if, indeed, Miranda were trying to seduce Shepard into helping her, I think the camera angles were a little too subtle.  I don't actually think she was trying to do so, which means they were just there for titillation.

I agree that the camera angles are there for titillation. What I would prefer is for the fan service elements to be reduced to something in line with how she is actually written or to make the fan service part of her character, as was done with Isabela.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Sorry everyone, but I cannot help but admire Miri's body and her mind. She gave her Father too much credit. Yeah, he gave her gifts. But, she can be proud of what she's done with them.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 15 juin 2011 - 12:06 .

[Mr.House]

MisterJB wrote...

jtav wrote...

And, if you're FemShep?

Judging from some of the banners I'm seeing on this thread, I'd say it worked.

Miranda witnessed first hand the trials Liara went through to recuperate FemShep's body, she could have assumed something was going on there and..."migth as well"? She lost nothing by trying.

:O:O:O

[Caihn]

TheMarshal wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

There are some camera angles I found disturbing like the one before her LM.
But, for the others, we always see this kind of camera angles in all kind of movies or TV shows ... why not in games ?

I don't think the camera angles we see on attractive female characters in TV/Movies are anywhere near as bad as we saw in ME2.  Or if they are that bad, at least they're genuine about their intention (i.e. slow-motion, close-ups, etc.)

Hmm I think you should pay more attention. There are far more bad camera angles in many movies.
The difference is that during the film, the action doesn't stop until the spectactor choose the dialog.