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[Ieldra]

Kabraxal wrote...
Or Miranda was subject to genetic manipulation as she grew up, chaning her appearance in comparison to Orianna who clearly wasn't altered anymore as she grew.

Which would again mean that they're not genetically identical. It's possible that Miranda doesn't know I guess.

[Kabraxal]

They might be genetically identical still... maybe she was given constant reconstructive surgery to make the "perfect" look. They'd be genetically identical still, but could look different *shrug*

Don't know why I typed genetic manipulation when I meant the above *facepalm*

[AgitatedLemon]

flemm wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
Not necessarily. Genetically, she's supposed to be just like Miranda, but that doesn't mean she needs to look like a clone of Miranda. I'd prefer it if they kept the different look.

Well, we know that what Miranda's father does is different from cloning: he messes with the chromosomes to add specific "desirable traits." So, it's like a combination of cloning and genetic engineering.

With that in mind, there's no reason in particular why Oriana would be genetically identical to Miranda. It might make more sense, in certain respects, if she were different, i.e. Mr. Lawson tried a slightly/somewhat different set of traits this time around.

Either could potentially make a certain amount of sense, depending on whether he wanted an exact genetic copy or not.

The problem: at one point, Miranda says that she and Oriana are genetically identical. So, apparently, he chose to do an exact genetic copy, at least that was the original idea.

Conceivably, you might decide, for story reasons, to retcon the whole thing and make Oriana genetically different from Miranda. Which could theoretically happen, in fact there is one bit of dialog in the leak that suggests this might be so (but it's unclear).

A valid view point about it.

[Ieldra]

Kabraxal wrote...
They might be genetically identical still... maybe she was given constant reconstructive surgery to make the "perfect" look. They'd be genetically identical still, but could look different *shrug*

Don't know why I typed genetic manipulation when I meant the above *facepalm*

Possible, but I don't think so. That would go against Mr. Lawson's agenda of a genetically perfect dynasty - such people wouldn't need cosmetic surgery to appear perfect. If they did, they wouldn't be genetically perfect.

I think if they keep Oriana's look from ME2 - and that might be desirable for continuity reasons - it's more plausible to assume that they're not genetically identical and that Miranda's information is outdated. One more reason to assume that is that Mr.Lawon may have wanted to improve on Miranda's genetic template.

[Dr. Doctor]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Calm the hell down. I said "could". This is the same universe where magic space rocks let you reduce or increase the mass of objects and people can wear latex that provides protection against gunfire. Said magic space rocks also allow FTL travel to occur, even though FTL travel is impossible via conventional means. Don't try to argue real life properties when it comes to video games and their respective universes.

ME1 gave us genetic modification that was plausible. I can't discuss ME2's genetics and biology without the biology majors in my dorm bashing their heads against a wall.

FTL is interesting because they retconned what element zero does in ME2, it doesn't reduce the mass of an object, it reduces the mass of the volume of space-time inside the mass effect field. Flying through space at near-light velocity is similar to driving a boat through water, the faster you go the more the water attempts to resist the boat's forward motion, thus requiring more energy to keep moving forward.

Without FTL the Normandy would require an infinite amount of energy to displace the volume of space-time needed to go past the speed of light. ME drive reduces the mass of the space within the field, essentially reducing the amount of energy the ship needs to exert to travel faster than light.

It works a lot like Star Trek's warp drive, This video gives a better description of the concepts of the ideas expressed above.

[jtav]

Teaser time. Apologies for the length .And the dark subject matter.

[quote]“Wake up, Miranda,” said a familiar voice. “I didn’t create you to curl up and die."

My eyes snapped open. All the fatigue and pain had vanished, and I sprang to my feet by instinct. I was no longer trapped on an operating table, but in cell approximately three by three meters in size. In one corner, there was a crude toilet. In another, a cabinet. A clear glass door separated me from the rest of the facility. Scientists scurried about their business. And my father stood next to me.

He stood stiffly, his posture painfully erect and his arms folded across his chest. I had not seen him were almost twenty years, but he was exactly as I remembered. The same high cheekbones, athletic build, and flawlessly pale skin. He was as much a mirror of me as I was a mirror of him. His suit was dark and exquisitely tailored to show his features off to their best advantage. The old Earth firm of Brooks Brothers. It was another thing we had in common, that love for fine clothing and the knowledge of how much power the right attire could command.

But something was wrong. The lapels of his jacket were wide in a way that hadn't been fashionable for over a decade. His shoes were similarly out of date. Henry Lawson would never have been caught out of fashion. And time had left no mark on him. The was not my father, but a twenty-year-old memory given illusory flesh and substance. A dream—or another Reaper nightmare.

“Very good. At least your resurrection hasn’t addled what few wits you possess. I do admit dealing with your connection to the Reapers by transforming them into a form you can comprehend is quite a novel approach. The devil given a human face. Though I'm what you choose for the incarnation of ultimate evil? Really, Miranda, how cliché can you be?"

I ignored him. If he was just an audiovisual hallucination, then he wasn't worth my time. There were more important things to do. The whispering had stopped, but the Reapers were in my head. I knew what would happen next. I needed to commit suicide before I betrayed humanity. That was the best any indoctrinated person could hope for. The thought did not distress me. I had already died once, and that had been a better death than I deserved. I would never see Liara again and I could no longer protect Oriana. The bed had no sheets, nor was there any knives, razors, or other objects I could fashion into weapons. I felt the back of my neck. No amp either.

"Suicide?” My father snorted. "You’re a Lawson. Fight this.”

“There’s nothing to fight. In a few weeks, I'll be as good as dead." Cerberus would have to let me take a bath eventually. Maybe I could drown myself.

"But in those few weeks, what could you do with the power of the Reapers at your command? Free Oriana from my clutches and give me the retribution I so richly deserve? Take your revenge on Cerberus and destroy them so utterly that not one stone is left upon the other? I’d think that you would want that."

“What I want is my mind." I sat back down on the bed. My limbs felt heavy and tired. I was doomed. Oriana belonged to my father, and Cerberus had delivered her. They had indoctrinated me. The world no longer made any sense. Cerberus had fought for the advancement and preservation of humanity. That was the cause I had believed in and given my life for. And now they were…were what exactly?

"Oh, I think you know the answer to that. Look at them. Really look at them.”

I did as he asked. What I saw astonished me. The nearest scientist was a dozen meters away, but I saw him as clearly and sharply as if he had been standing next to me. His eyes glowed with the same brilliant blue I had seen earlier, and silver crisscrossed his face like ropes. I looked at the next scientist. The next. All were similarly deformed, and none of them seemed to notice. I had seen this before, when I was researching Shepard for Lazarus. “They look like Saren.” And that I understood. “We’re working for the Reapers now. How? Why?”

"That I can't answer. But, yes, they're advancing the Reaper agenda. You have the power to stop them. Because you’re like Saren, too. Stronger, faster, with innate biotics." He said down on the bed beside me. "I won't lie to you. There isn't going to be a happy ending for you. No little blue children or anything else. You’re going to die. Do you remember that play I liked? My favorite quote?"

Yes. My father had been mad for twentieth century Earth drama. The Lion in Winter had been a particular favorite. “When the fall is all there is, it matters,” I whispered.

He put his arm around me in a fatherly way he never had in life. "Well, Miranda, you're falling. What are you going to do?"

“Fight.” My eyes and throat burned. "I'm going to fight until this perversion of Cerberus is gone, until Leng and the Illusive Man are dead."

"Good girl.” And with that, he was gone.

[flemm]

Since there is just that one line of dialog that supports the idea that they are identical (whereas Mr. Lawson's methods and Oriana's appearance suggest they could be different), it's something one could retcon without too much trouble, if that were desirable.

Really you'd just be ignoring the line. But, in-universe, you could have it be a false assumption on Miranda's part. Not one she'd be likely to make, in all probability. But whatever. As retcons go, it would be fairly inconspicuous.

Modifié par flemm, 11 février 2012 - 10:23 .

[ThomGau]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Which would again mean that they're not genetically identical. It's possible that Miranda doesn't know I guess.

Agreed.
Even though Miranda says Oriana and herself are identical, to me it would make more sense if Henry Lawson created a Miranda 2.0 with Oriana, with slight enhancements and modifications. Afterall, she was meant to replace Miranda, he might as well wanted to get some upgrades from the "previous version".

Or maybe he just wanted to replace Miranda because she wasn't as obedient as he would have liked . I imagine her as being somewhat petulant and unsubmissive towards him and this could jeopardize his project of building a dynasty ... and it actually did.

[Jynthor]

My guess is they didn't want to use Yvonne's face for Oriana and tried to recreate her with the normal tools.(Obviously failed somewhat)

[ThomGau]

Jynthor wrote...

My guess is they didn't want to use Yvonne's face for Oriana and tried to recreate her with the normal tools.(Obviously failed somewhat)

Maybe BW thought it was rather tricky and/or weird for the audience to have two characters with the same face and voice. So they added a few modifications to Oriana.
But well, we all understand the concept of twins, so I think we would have been fine with that similarity between these two characters.

Anyways, we'll eventually see how BW handled this in ME3.

Modifié par ThomGau, 11 février 2012 - 10:35 .

[AgitatedLemon]

ThomGau wrote...

Jynthor wrote...

My guess is they didn't want to use Yvonne's face for Oriana and tried to recreate her with the normal tools.(Obviously failed somewhat)

Maybe BW thought it was rather tricky and/or weird for the audience to have two characters with the same face and voice. So they added a few modifications to Oriana.
But well, we all understand the concept of twins, so I think we would have been fine with that similarity between these two characters.

Anyways, we'll eventually see how BW handled this in ME3.

@bold- I think this is the case. It makes the most sense.

[CrutchCricket]

Wow. I've only been here a few months but that's the most pissed off I've seen Ieldra get.

Suspending your disbelief is a discrete process. You suspend your disbelief about x to get into the story, sure. But that doesn't mean everything we know or think we know about how the world works goes out the window.

I suspect it is also easier to suspend disbelief about a fantastical addition to the world (FTL, phlebotinum etc) than to do so on a change to its mechanics (water flows up). The former can be accepted instantly, the latter needs an explanation. (I.E why does water flow up- a wizard did it) The types of acceptable justifications would depend on the genre.

Anyway couple of other things of interest:

Skullheart wrote...

Lets give her a nanosuiot or an octocamo suit, in case you really want some stealth.

This would be awesome. Seeing as how MGS was brought up a couple of times I would also point out a few times (particularly in the fourth installment) where Snake still had his camo suit but was wearing other appropriate attire to fit into his surroundings: civilian clothes in that one Europe mission (can't remember which city it was supposed to be), guerilla uniform when he was hiding among the rebels at the start of the game etc. If Miranda is on the run and/or hiding a sneaking suit underneath appropriate clothes would be logical.

And on that note I would hope (likely in vain) that ME3 improved stealth options for those so inclined *cough like my Infiltrator *cough

AgitatedLemon wrote...
If you could cross-over a character from any other work of fiction into the ME-verse, and they were a part of Shepard's squad, what would they think of Miranda?

Lemon's on the roll with these interesting what-ifs. Well Snake was already mentioned but three things on that:
1. He's not much of a joiner so I don't see him as a squadmate in general
2. I wish my infiltrator was more Snake-esque, at least in terms of abilities. so having him on the squad would be weird.
3. If Shepard is female Snake will distrust her because she sounds like Naomi Hunter (both voiced by Jennifer Hale lol)
That being said Snake might not trust Miranda either because she's similar to Naomi. At least at first. Over time similar backgrounds (as clones) might bring them closer.

Otherwise I would pick... Sarah Walker. And watch the universe impode.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 11 février 2012 - 10:49 .

[CrutchCricket]

Oh, almost forgot. How is it that so many people are thinking "villain" when they see that concept art? I can't see anything but "air head fashion model", like I literally expect each of those figures to walk on a runway with a pretentious expression, one after the other. I would not take a villain dressed like that very seriously. But things have been weirder...

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...


Lemon's on the roll with these interesting what-ifs.

 

I'll take that as a compliment.

Otherwise I would pick... Sarah Walker. And watch the universe impode.

Miranda + Sarah =

[Ieldra]

@jtav:
The similarities between your scene and the Grayson scenario are striking. *shudder* Not quite sure why you'd want to write a scenario mentioned in our "do not want" list, but hopefully it ends with Miranda surviving with her mind intact.

[android654]

I honestly prefer Sarah to Miranda, and I think she has to possibility to be much colder than Miranda.

[Td1984]

On Sarah, I actually thought about including her in my list of characters (apparently only 1 of them would actually work with Miranda, but I'd still be cool with the other 2 in my squad), but we already have Yvonne. No need to have her in the squad twice. I also agree with android, Sarah has the possibility to be even colder than Miranda (see: the final 2 episodes of Chuck).

[android654]

I'm on the third episode of the fourth season. It surprised me since I thought it would be solely spyfi (Alias) rather than an espionage focus, and it wound up being neither and still caught my attention. Even thought I'm not at the end, she's displayed the necessary personality, history, and psychological profile to be a truly cold person. Some people might say Miranda is cold, but Sarah can have ice in her veins when she's pushed to it.

Modifié par android654, 11 février 2012 - 11:40 .

[schemata]

Played mass effect more times than I can remember, several renegade runs, and several paragon runs. Some know which way I lean. But I noticed something when I first started another playthrough. Mirandas outlook on the effects of me1. Now either way she states that shepard did "everything" right and I barely gave it any attention, thought it served more as fan service than to say anything telling of Mirandas character. Now I was wondering if there was more to it than that- or perhaps Im reading to much into it. But it seems it could alter miris entire world view depending on either your a para or a renegade,

Renegade ends with humanity in a class above the other species in a sense. Their the Citadel Council and they run the majority of C-sec. Like Humanity>Everything else.

however paragon options has humanity potray their strengths among the galatic community and become an accepted species on the council. Leaving miris POV that humanity should be on par with the galaxy not above it.

Any thoughts or am I reading to much into this?

[Shotokanguy]

Td1984 wrote...

On Sarah, I actually thought about including her in my list of characters (apparently only 1 of them would actually work with Miranda, but I'd still be cool with the other 2 in my squad), but we already have Yvonne. No need to have her in the squad twice. I also agree with android, Sarah has the possibility to be even colder than Miranda (see: the final 2 episodes of Chuck).

I wish my DVR had recorded the first hour of the finale. I still haven't watched the end of Chuck, and the idea of Sarah going back to being who she was before Chuck is exciting, since I feel like her character gradually became more and more non-existant. 

Man. All this info from the last couple days has me almost excited for ME3 (I think trying to avoid all info for it had the effect of making me less interested) but I don't even have any Shepards ready. ME1 is such a chore.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

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[ClanMacNab]

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Jynthor wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

jtav wrote...

Can we define "normal?" A great number of intelligence officers are married with children. I want her to continue to work for human advancement. I also want her to have a positive relationship with her sister and a small circle of close friends. The two are not mutually exclusive, and BW shouldn't treat them as such.

When I think of normal, I think of how Miranda wants Oriana to live, happy and free of the dangers that Miranda typically carries. I don't want Miranda to turn into the stereotypical housewife (At home, tending the kids) while Shepard goes off and saves the world some more, nor vice versa. Of course, if the both of them wanted children, I'm more than certain they can circumvent her current infertility.

Part of me think s a normal life (As how I feel it would happen) isn't all that possible. Do we know if Miranda has any skills outside her work? I can't imagine she doesn't, but clarification would help determining a possible future.

Pretty much this.

Avoiding the stereotypical housewife is probably the hardest part.

If they gave her children in the game, that is exactly what would happen. They could never let their lead character take a back seat, even if their supporting characters are better.

Maybe shelving your stereotypes of what a 'housewife' is might be a good start...

[shepard1038]

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[CrutchCricket]

Td1984 wrote...

On Sarah, I actually thought about including her in my list of characters (apparently only 1 of them would actually work with Miranda, but I'd still be cool with the other 2 in my squad), but we already have Yvonne. No need to have her in the squad twice. I also agree with android, Sarah has the possibility to be even colder than Miranda (see: the final 2 episodes of Chuck).

Never 'nuff Yvonne:P

Otherwise though why is Sarah colder than Miranda (or having the potential to)? I say those final episodes just showed Sarah as "business as usual", before Chuck. Maybe a bit more hostile given what happened). I think Miranda was the same pre-ME2. I see nothing that gives one or the other a leg up in ruthlessness.

[AgitatedLemon]

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