82210 réponses à ce sujet

[AgitatedLemon]

ClanMacNab wrote...

Maybe shelving your stereotypes of what a 'housewife' is might be a good start...

Well... What do you think the stereotypical housewife entails?

[android654]

ClanMacNab wrote...Maybe shelving your stereotypes of what a 'housewife' is might be a good start...

Sounds like a nerve was hit.

CrutchCricket wrote...

Td1984 wrote...

On Sarah, I actually thought about including her in my list of characters (apparently only 1 of them would actually work with Miranda, but I'd still be cool with the other 2 in my squad), but we already have Yvonne. No need to have her in the squad twice. I also agree with android, Sarah has the possibility to be even colder than Miranda (see: the final 2 episodes of Chuck).

Never 'nuff Yvonne:P

Otherwise though why is Sarah colder than Miranda (or having the potential to)? I say those final episodes just showed Sarah as "business as usual", before Chuck. Maybe a bit more hostile given what happened). I think Miranda was the same pre-ME2. I see nothing that gives one or the other a leg up in ruthlessness.

Its easier for Sarah's cold nature to have an effect since her story isn't filled to the brim with ostentatious character's like in Mass Effect. Miranda can't be called cold for killing wilson, when you play a character that's killed hundreds of thousands and have a few crew members who like to kill for fun. Much of Miranda's coldness is simply business or is dwarfed by how casually people treat an abandonment of emotion in ME. If you look at Sarah's back story how she got to be in the C.I.A. and how things have unraveled in her own life its easier to see her shutting everyone out. People seem to think that someone who is "cold" is traditionally "mean," but that isn't the case. Being cold is much like being passionate or warm, it actually takes a lot of attachment and emotional investment to get there. Miranda seems to have a lack of emotional interaction, this doesn't make her cold, but makes her emotionally stunted. Sarah however, is cold.

Modifié par android654, 12 février 2012 - 12:37 .

[trucoolbrees]

 I don't know, a lot of you guys are comparing Sarah and Miranda but were as they're both bad-ass, I don't think Sarah would go nearly as far in the morally grey area as Miranda. 

[AgitatedLemon]

trucoolbrees wrote...

 I don't know, a lot of you guys are comparing Sarah and Miranda but were as they're both bad-ass, I don't think Sarah would go nearly as far in the morally grey area as Miranda. 

I'm inclined to agree.

[ClanMacNab]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

ClanMacNab wrote...

Maybe shelving your stereotypes of what a 'housewife' is might be a good start...

Well... What do you think the stereotypical housewife entails?

The generally accepted housewife stereotype is Harriet Nelson. I personally know none in my personal life who come close to that mold.

I know one who runs the pistol stage on steel night faster than 80% of the men, another who is a damn good with a sixgun from the back of horse, and one who's husband is retired SEAL team 1, and she jumps out of airplane from 14,500' almost every weekend. All of these women have one or more kids and also run the household...junk your preconceptions about what a housewife is, even in our day and age, let alone the 22nd century.

Modifié par ClanMacNab, 12 février 2012 - 12:47 .

[AgitatedLemon]

ClanMacNab wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

ClanMacNab wrote...

Maybe shelving your stereotypes of what a 'housewife' is might be a good start...

Well... What do you think the stereotypical housewife entails?

The generally accepted housewife stereotype is Harriet Nelson. I personally know none in my personal life who come close to that mold.

I know one who runs the pistol stage on steel night faster than 80% of the men, another who is a damn good with a sixgun from the back of horse, and one who's husband is retired SEAL team 1, and she jumps out of airplane from 14,500' almost every weekend. All of these women have one or more kids and also run the household...junk your preconceptions about what a housewife is, even in our day and age, let alone the 22nd century.

I don't know who Harriet Nelson is, nor do I know half of your redneck slang (No offense). I assume a sixgun is a six-shooter or a revolver?

Do I detect a hint of hostility?

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 12 février 2012 - 12:57 .

[CrutchCricket]

android654 wrote...
Its easier for Sarah's cold nature to have an effect since her story isn't filled to the brim with ostentatious character's like in Mass Effect. Miranda can't be called cold for killing wilson, when you play a character that's killed hundreds of thousands and have a few crew members who like to kill for fun. Much of Miranda's coldness is simply business or is dwarfed by how casually people treat an abandonment of emotion in ME. If you look at Sarah's back story how she got to be in the C.I.A. and how things have unraveled in her own life its easier to see her shutting everyone out. People seem to think that someone who is "cold" is traditionally "mean," but that isn't the case. Being cold is much like being passionate or warm, it actually takes a lot of attachment and emotional investment to get there. Miranda seems to have a lack of emotional interaction, this doesn't make her cold, but makes her emotionally stunted. Sarah however, is cold.

All this seems to be about appearances though, not objective core. Sarah's more cold because she's not surrounded by killers. Well surround her with killers and put Miranda in a normal neighborhood and see what happens. I think they'd be about the same in terms of demeanor.

The thing is you actually  see more background on Sarah than you do on Miranda. That may make it seem like one is more withdrawn than the other but that not necessarily the case. Objectively, you don't have you a lot of room to actually compare the two. They obviously got to where they are through different paths. But I think it's lead them to a similar emotional process.

Ultimately you see a lot more of Sarah than you do of Miranda. It's easy to conclude that means there's less there. But I don't think such a conclusion is valid.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

In the Forth Season Episode of Chuck "Chuck Versus Phase Three," Sarah leaves in search for Chuck; To find him and save him no matter the cost. She was Bad-Ass and was cold to any enemy who got in her way. She was determined to save the man she loved.

Do you think Miri would do the same? Would her actions be the same?

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...
Its easier for Sarah's cold nature to have an effect since her story isn't filled to the brim with ostentatious character's like in Mass Effect. Miranda can't be called cold for killing wilson, when you play a character that's killed hundreds of thousands and have a few crew members who like to kill for fun. Much of Miranda's coldness is simply business or is dwarfed by how casually people treat an abandonment of emotion in ME. If you look at Sarah's back story how she got to be in the C.I.A. and how things have unraveled in her own life its easier to see her shutting everyone out. People seem to think that someone who is "cold" is traditionally "mean," but that isn't the case. Being cold is much like being passionate or warm, it actually takes a lot of attachment and emotional investment to get there. Miranda seems to have a lack of emotional interaction, this doesn't make her cold, but makes her emotionally stunted. Sarah however, is cold.

All this seems to be about appearances though, not objective core. Sarah's more cold because she's not surrounded by killers. Well surround her with killers and put Miranda in a normal neighborhood and see what happens. I think they'd be about the same in terms of demeanor.

The thing is you actually  see more background on Sarah than you do on Miranda. That may make it seem like one is more withdrawn than the other but that not necessarily the case. Objectively, you don't have you a lot of room to actually compare the two. They obviously got to where they are through different paths. But I think it's lead them to a similar emotional process.

Ultimately you see a lot more of Sarah than you do of Miranda. It's easy to conclude that means there's less there. But I don't think such a conclusion is valid.

Fair number of points you make.

[AgitatedLemon]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

In the Forth Season Episode of Chuck "Chuck Versus Phase Three," Sarah leaves in search for Chuck; To find him and save him no matter the cost. She was Bad-Ass and was cold to any enemy who got in her way. She was determined to save the man she loved.

Do you think Miri would do the same? Would her actions be the same?

I'm going to say... Maybe. It depends on a number of things. Who is she going after? Who took him/her? What tools are at her disposal?

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

In the Forth Season Episode of Chuck "Chuck Versus Phase Three," Sarah leaves in search for Chuck; To find him and save him no matter the cost. She was Bad-Ass and was cold to any enemy who got in her way. She was determined to save the man she loved.

Do you think Miri would do the same? Would her actions be the same?

I'm going to say... Maybe. It depends on a number of things. Who is she going after? Who took him/her? What tools are at her disposal?

 If it were Us (Shepard). And we're in a position were we are being tortured, we have no weapons and no means to escape.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 12 février 2012 - 01:03 .

[AgitatedLemon]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

In the Forth Season Episode of Chuck "Chuck Versus Phase Three," Sarah leaves in search for Chuck; To find him and save him no matter the cost. She was Bad-Ass and was cold to any enemy who got in her way. She was determined to save the man she loved.

Do you think Miri would do the same? Would her actions be the same?

I'm going to say... Maybe. It depends on a number of things. Who is she going after? Who took him/her? What tools are at her disposal?

 If it were Us (Shepard). And were in a position were we are being tortured, we have no weapons and no means to escape.

It still helps to know who kidnapped Shepard, and what resources Miranda has. She's smart, but she's not MacGyver.

[android654]

trucoolbrees wrote...

 I don't know, a lot of you guys are comparing Sarah and Miranda but were as they're both bad-ass, I don't think Sarah would go nearly as far in the morally grey area as Miranda. 

Again, its difficult to comapre the two being ME is so outlandish that you can't find other characters to match up. If they were both working in the same fields or in the same time period, Sarah would still be the "colder" of the two.

I'll put it to you like this. Miranda clearly has a lack of emotional experiences, this means when she does something like shooting Wilson, Killing Niket or anything else she doesn't feel an emotional pull or one that isn't as strong as another person. This shows she doesn't process emotions the same way. When a character is truly cold, they feel the emotional pang of doing something but they do the "wrong" thing for some emtoional or personal reason whether it's justified or not.

Example 1.
Wilson and Jacob escort Shepard through the station and as soon as he opens the door Miranda shoots him point blank. No explenation, no thought, nothing.

Example 2. Miranda finds Niket with the Eclipse mercenaries who have kidnapped her sister. Again before he gets to explain anything, before she processes it she pulls the trigger and kills him (Unless you paragon her, and allow him to explain then the Asari kills him).

This shows a lack of emotion, not cold emotion or abandonment of emotion.

Example 1.
After Fulcrum sends a spy after Chuck disguised as a cop Sarah chases him into a lot. She beats him to a pulp. With the man on the ground, broken, beaten and bloody, she holds him at gun point and contemplates what to do. After he confesses that Fulcrum will continue to go after Chuck does she shoot a defenseless man.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

In the Forth Season Episode of Chuck "Chuck Versus Phase Three," Sarah leaves in search for Chuck; To find him and save him no matter the cost. She was Bad-Ass and was cold to any enemy who got in her way. She was determined to save the man she loved.

Do you think Miri would do the same? Would her actions be the same?

I'm going to say... Maybe. It depends on a number of things. Who is she going after? Who took him/her? What tools are at her disposal?

 If it were Us (Shepard). And were in a position were we are being tortured, we have no weapons and no means to escape.

It still helps to know who kidnapped Shepard, and what resources Miranda has. She's smart, but she's not MacGyver.

If Cerberus was involved and she had the same amount of Resources Sarah had.

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

Example 2. Miranda finds Niket with the Eclipse mercenaries who have kidnapped her sister. Again before he gets to explain anything, before she processes it she pulls the trigger and kills him (Unless you paragon her, and allow him to explain then the Asari kills him).

She kills Niket because he is the only lose end remaining. There's no telling that he couldn't re-betray her again. He explains himself via the numerous investigate dialogues, not after interrupting Miranda. Not a great example.

[android654]

CrutchCricket wrote...

android654 wrote...
Its easier for Sarah's cold nature to have an effect since her story isn't filled to the brim with ostentatious character's like in Mass Effect. Miranda can't be called cold for killing wilson, when you play a character that's killed hundreds of thousands and have a few crew members who like to kill for fun. Much of Miranda's coldness is simply business or is dwarfed by how casually people treat an abandonment of emotion in ME. If you look at Sarah's back story how she got to be in the C.I.A. and how things have unraveled in her own life its easier to see her shutting everyone out. People seem to think that someone who is "cold" is traditionally "mean," but that isn't the case. Being cold is much like being passionate or warm, it actually takes a lot of attachment and emotional investment to get there. Miranda seems to have a lack of emotional interaction, this doesn't make her cold, but makes her emotionally stunted. Sarah however, is cold.

All this seems to be about appearances though, not objective core. Sarah's more cold because she's not surrounded by killers. Well surround her with killers and put Miranda in a normal neighborhood and see what happens. I think they'd be about the same in terms of demeanor.

The thing is you actually  see more background on Sarah than you do on Miranda. That may make it seem like one is more withdrawn than the other but that not necessarily the case. Objectively, you don't have you a lot of room to actually compare the two. They obviously got to where they are through different paths. But I think it's lead them to a similar emotional process.

Ultimately you see a lot more of Sarah than you do of Miranda. It's easy to conclude that means there's less there. But I don't think such a conclusion is valid.

But you have nothing to account for that either. So far all we know about Miranda is that she left home where she was isolated and psychologically abused, went to work for Cerberus and has been there ever since.

[AgitatedLemon]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

In the Forth Season Episode of Chuck "Chuck Versus Phase Three," Sarah leaves in search for Chuck; To find him and save him no matter the cost. She was Bad-Ass and was cold to any enemy who got in her way. She was determined to save the man she loved.

Do you think Miri would do the same? Would her actions be the same?

I'm going to say... Maybe. It depends on a number of things. Who is she going after? Who took him/her? What tools are at her disposal?

 If it were Us (Shepard). And were in a position were we are being tortured, we have no weapons and no means to escape.

It still helps to know who kidnapped Shepard, and what resources Miranda has. She's smart, but she's not MacGyver.

If Cerberus was involved and she had the same amount of Resources Sarah had.

I'd say yes then.

I don't watch Chuck though (Dexter fanboy), so I have no idea what Sarah had at her disposal.

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

Example 2. Miranda finds Niket with the Eclipse mercenaries who have kidnapped her sister. Again before he gets to explain anything, before she processes it she pulls the trigger and kills him (Unless you paragon her, and allow him to explain then the Asari kills him).

She kills Niket because he is the only lose end remaining. There's no telling that he couldn't re-betray her again. He explains himself via the numerous investigate dialogues, not after interrupting Miranda. Not a great example.

That's my point. Being cold is an emotional response. Miranda's actions are analytical.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Sarah was CIA, and she had many resources.

[ClanMacNab]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

ClanMacNab wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

ClanMacNab wrote...

Maybe shelving your stereotypes of what a 'housewife' is might be a good start...

Well... What do you think the stereotypical housewife entails?

The generally accepted housewife stereotype is Harriet Nelson. I personally know none in my personal life who come close to that mold.

I know one who runs the pistol stage on steel night faster than 80% of the men, another who is a damn good with a sixgun from the back of horse, and one who's husband is retired SEAL team 1, and she jumps out of airplane from 14,500' almost every weekend. All of these women have one or more kids and also run the household...junk your preconceptions about what a housewife is, even in our day and age, let alone the 22nd century.

I don't know who Harriet Nelson is, nor do I know half of your redneck slang (No offense). I assume a sixgun is a six-shooter or a revolver?

Do I detect a hint of hostility?

There was nothing 'redneck' about a single thing I said (no offense taken).

I do take some offense to the idea that procreating and raising one's children is somehow offensive or a limitation to anyone's mission in life.

I really doubt Miranda would see it that way either.

[Jynthor]

ClanMacNab wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

ClanMacNab wrote...

Maybe shelving your stereotypes of what a 'housewife' is might be a good start...

Well... What do you think the stereotypical housewife entails?

The generally accepted housewife stereotype is Harriet Nelson. I personally know none in my personal life who come close to that mold.

I know one who runs the pistol stage on steel night faster than 80% of the men, another who is a damn good with a sixgun from the back of horse, and one who's husband is retired SEAL team 1, and she jumps out of airplane from 14,500' almost every weekend. All of these women have one or more kids and also run the household...junk your preconceptions about what a housewife is, even in our day and age, let alone the 22nd century.

And I know one who bakes damn good cakes.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

There are a lot of Similarities Between Miri and Sarah. I just hope Miri doesn't have the same fate as Sarah did at the end of Chuck.

[AgitatedLemon]

ClanMacNab wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

ClanMacNab wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

ClanMacNab wrote...

Maybe shelving your stereotypes of what a 'housewife' is might be a good start...

Well... What do you think the stereotypical housewife entails?

The generally accepted housewife stereotype is Harriet Nelson. I personally know none in my personal life who come close to that mold.

I know one who runs the pistol stage on steel night faster than 80% of the men, another who is a damn good with a sixgun from the back of horse, and one who's husband is retired SEAL team 1, and she jumps out of airplane from 14,500' almost every weekend. All of these women have one or more kids and also run the household...junk your preconceptions about what a housewife is, even in our day and age, let alone the 22nd century.

I don't know who Harriet Nelson is, nor do I know half of your redneck slang (No offense). I assume a sixgun is a six-shooter or a revolver?

Do I detect a hint of hostility?

There was nothing 'redneck' about a single thing I said (no offense taken).

I do take some offense to the idea that procreating and raising one's children is somehow offensive or a limitation to anyone's mission in life.

I really doubt Miranda would see it that way either.

I never said or implied that procreating or raising the kids automatically equals the stereotypical housewife (Though I'm not sure how good Miranda would be at raising kids, at least, on her own). Whenever I see someone reference a stereotypical housewife, they think of someone similar to Lois from Family Guy. Stay at home, cleans the house all day long, cooks all of the meals, is mesmerized by vacuums and rubber gloves, etc. I just can't see Miranda being that type of woman. Sure, she can take care of the children and take the occasional day off to watch them and play with them, but it wouldn't be an everyday thing. 

She could very well be a great mother, who takes extreme care with her children and provides the best for them, while still living her "regular" life. Of course, Shepard is pitching in his fair share as well.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 12 février 2012 - 01:19 .

[android654]

ClanMacNab wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

ClanMacNab wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

ClanMacNab wrote...

Maybe shelving your stereotypes of what a 'housewife' is might be a good start...

Well... What do you think the stereotypical housewife entails?

The generally accepted housewife stereotype is Harriet Nelson. I personally know none in my personal life who come close to that mold.

I know one who runs the pistol stage on steel night faster than 80% of the men, another who is a damn good with a sixgun from the back of horse, and one who's husband is retired SEAL team 1, and she jumps out of airplane from 14,500' almost every weekend. All of these women have one or more kids and also run the household...junk your preconceptions about what a housewife is, even in our day and age, let alone the 22nd century.

I don't know who Harriet Nelson is, nor do I know half of your redneck slang (No offense). I assume a sixgun is a six-shooter or a revolver?

Do I detect a hint of hostility?

There was nothing 'redneck' about a single thing I said (no offense taken).

I do take some offense to the idea that procreating and raising one's children is somehow offensive or a limitation to anyone's mission in life.

I really doubt Miranda would see it that way either.

Stopping your life for someone else is a limitation to that person's life.

Modifié par android654, 12 février 2012 - 01:22 .

[Jynthor]

To be honest, Shepard has no future, especially not with a family.
Remember Jon Grissom? Multiply that by 100 and you have what the legendary Shepard will be after stopping the reapers. Almost makes me wish for an awesome ending in which Shepard dies at the end.