82210 réponses à ce sujet

[AgitatedLemon]

jtav wrote...

I can't fault them for Tali. The geth-quarian conflict is a big deal, as is organic vs. synthetic generally.

Tali shouldn't really be involved in that.

At all.

[JosephDucreux]

jtav wrote...

I can't fault them for Tali. The geth-quarian conflict is a big deal, as is organic vs. synthetic generally.

So you're trying to tell me that a character that is important to a conflict that will last all of 15-25 minutes in cutscenes in a completely contrived fashion is more important that a character who holds vital intel and has the highest potential to topple the enemy whom you will face down for at least 50% of the game?

I think not.

[MisterJB]

She has several conversations with Shepard in the course of the game and is involved in a main plot mission that takes place on one of the most important and hyped locations of the game.
How did they screw that up? It boggles the mind.

[jtav]

Or jtav giving Miranda a power up that allows her to beat the stuffing out of Leng, removes her from her mission, allows me to explore some themes from the series (namely organic vs. synthetic) and provides a neat ending. I'd hate for it to happen in-game, but I'm not operating under the same constraints.

[AgitatedLemon]

JosephDucreux wrote...

jtav wrote...

I can't fault them for Tali. The geth-quarian conflict is a big deal, as is organic vs. synthetic generally.

So you're trying to tell me that a character that is important to a conflict that will last all of 15-25 minutes in cutscenes in a completely contrived fashion is more important that a character who holds vital intel and has the highest potential to topple the enemy whom you will face down for at least 50% of the game?

I think not.

I feel the same, though I could probably word it better.

IMO, Tali shouldn't be doing her *spoiler*. She isn't a politician, she's a mechanic and an engineer.

[XX55XX]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

JosephDucreux wrote...

jtav wrote...

I can't fault them for Tali. The geth-quarian conflict is a big deal, as is organic vs. synthetic generally.

So you're trying to tell me that a character that is important to a conflict that will last all of 15-25 minutes in cutscenes in a completely contrived fashion is more important that a character who holds vital intel and has the highest potential to topple the enemy whom you will face down for at least 50% of the game?

I think not.

I feel the same, though I could probably word it better.

IMO, Tali shouldn't be doing her *spoiler*. She isn't a politician, she's a mechanic and an engineer.

If we went by your logic, then why would we even need squadmates in the game? Shepard could be a lone wolf and the writing alone would take care of the Reapers regardless.

I'm not discounting Miranda's role in the game - but to discount Tali's role is a great disservice in itself. Every squadmate has a role in the story - otherwise, why would they be there?

[Skullheart]

It looks like Miranda's role in the game is saving Oriana and nothing more. I think some people in Bioware suffers neural decay, or they are red sand addicts.

[JosephDucreux]

MisterJB wrote...

She has several conversations with Shepard in the course of the game and is involved in a main plot mission that takes place on one of the most important and hyped locations of the game.
How did they screw that up? It boggles the mind.

Modifié par JosephDucreux, 12 février 2012 - 04:43 .

[jtav]

Two points:

1. Removing Tali from the squad doesn't put Miranda on it.
2. Tali not being involved in the geth-quarian conflict is just as insane as Miranda not being involved in the Cerberus conflict.

Miranda's role stinks on its own merits. No need to blame other characters. Fairly or not, I'm inclined to blame Strahovski's schedule/asking price.

[AgitatedLemon]

XX55XX wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

JosephDucreux wrote...

jtav wrote...

I can't fault them for Tali. The geth-quarian conflict is a big deal, as is organic vs. synthetic generally.

So you're trying to tell me that a character that is important to a conflict that will last all of 15-25 minutes in cutscenes in a completely contrived fashion is more important that a character who holds vital intel and has the highest potential to topple the enemy whom you will face down for at least 50% of the game?

I think not.

I feel the same, though I could probably word it better.

IMO, Tali shouldn't be doing her *spoiler*. She isn't a politician, she's a mechanic and an engineer.

If we went by your logic, then why would we even need squadmates in the game? Shepard could be a lone wolf and the writing alone would take care of the Reapers regardless.

I'm not discounting Miranda's role in the game - but to discount Tali's role is a great disservice in itself. Every squadmate has a role in the story - otherwise, why would they be there?

Just because they're there doesn't mean squat.

Tali's only purpose so far is to provide evidence against Saren in ME1. She did this, but she didn't need to join the squad. Any of the admirals could do her job in ME3 (Probably even better than her). Other than that, she's nothing but a quarian wikipedia. We know next to nothing of Tali's past, except for "She was in a bubble as a baby", and that her father is an admiral. Her recruitment in ME2 was the same as Garrus', just fanservice.

Garrus (And I love Garrus, don't pull that "Favoritism!" crap) *literally* doesn't need to be in either of the games so far, either. You can friggin avoid him entirely in ME1. The ass-pull that went into their roles in ME3 doesn't all of a sudden make them super duper important. At least Garrus has personal history, unlike Tali.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

@ Jtav and POSSIBLY others

Yee of little faith...geez<_<

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 12 février 2012 - 04:34 .

[shepard1038]

jtav wrote...

Two points:

1. Removing Tali from the squad doesn't put Miranda on it.
2. Tali not being involved in the geth-quarian conflict is just as insane as Miranda not being involved in the Cerberus conflict.

Miranda's role stinks on its own merits. No need to blame other characters. Fairly or not, I'm inclined to blame Strahovski's schedule/asking price.

My god you're talking about EA the multimillion company giving Bioware low money for the game.
A game that has won game of the year and one of the best  games of this generation.

Modifié par shepard1038, 12 février 2012 - 04:34 .

[JosephDucreux]

jtav wrote...

Two points:

1. Removing Tali from the squad doesn't put Miranda on it.
2. Tali not being involved in the geth-quarian conflict is just as insane as Miranda not being involved in the Cerberus conflict.

Miranda's role stinks on its own merits. No need to blame other characters. Fairly or not, I'm inclined to blame Strahovski's schedule/asking price.

Point 1- Correct. However, due to the resources needed to cater to that fanservice, Miranda's character arc was left hanging.

Point 2- False. There are dozens of other quarians who are more qualified on the geth-quarian conflict than Tali will ever be.

[XX55XX]

Just because they're there doesn't mean squat.

Tali's only purpose so far is to provide evidence against Saren in ME1. She did this, but she didn't need to join the squad. Any of the admirals could do her job in ME3 (Probably even better than her). Other than that, she's nothing but a quarian wikipedia. We know next to nothing of Tali's past, except for "She was in a bubble as a baby", and that her father is an admiral. Her recruitment in ME2 was the same as Garrus', just fanservice.

Garrus (And I love Garrus, don't pull that "Favoritism!" crap) *literally* doesn't need to be in either of the games so far, either. You can friggin avoid him entirely in ME1. The ass-pull that went into their roles in ME3 doesn't all of a sudden make them super duper important. At least Garrus has personal history, unlike Tali.

And beyond the small possibility that Miranda could play a role in the Cerberus conflict, what does Miranda have to offer? Where does she fit in the whole "fight against the Reapers" thing? Hell, I'd say Mordin plays an even bigger role than her in resolving the conflict, partially through his activities and the genophage.

Again, everyone plays their role. Even Miranda. And Tali. And Garrus.

[AgitatedLemon]

XX55XX wrote...

Just because they're there doesn't mean squat.

Tali's only purpose so far is to provide evidence against Saren in ME1. She did this, but she didn't need to join the squad. Any of the admirals could do her job in ME3 (Probably even better than her). Other than that, she's nothing but a quarian wikipedia. We know next to nothing of Tali's past, except for "She was in a bubble as a baby", and that her father is an admiral. Her recruitment in ME2 was the same as Garrus', just fanservice.

Garrus (And I love Garrus, don't pull that "Favoritism!" crap) *literally* doesn't need to be in either of the games so far, either. You can friggin avoid him entirely in ME1. The ass-pull that went into their roles in ME3 doesn't all of a sudden make them super duper important. At least Garrus has personal history, unlike Tali.

And beyond the small possibility that Miranda could play a role in the Cerberus conflict, what does Miranda have to offer? Where does she fit in the whole "fight against the Reapers" thing? Hell, I'd say Mordin plays an even bigger role than her in resolving the conflict, partially through his activities and the genophage.

Again, everyone plays their role. Even Miranda. And Tali. And Garrus.

Against the Reapers? We don't know. Not sure if you've missed the million or so times it's been said, but we don't know exactly what her end-game contribution is yet.

And yes, Miranda is universally more important than Tali and Garrus. I've explained numerous times. I don't think I need to waste breath and time doing it again.

[t3HPrO]

JosephDucreux wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

She has several conversations with Shepard in the course of the game and is involved in a main plot mission that takes place on one of the most important and hyped locations of the game.
How did they screw that up? It boggles the mind.

Loved this for the truth.

[XX55XX]

Fair enough. But, everyone plays their role. Sit back and enjoy when the game is released.

My only concern is that Mordin will only have a few cameos, but that is the path the writers have elected to take.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

MisterJB wrote...

She has several conversations with Shepard in the course of the game and is involved in a main plot mission that takes place on one of the most important and hyped locations of the game.
How did they screw that up? It boggles the mind.

Which place is that? The Citadel?

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 12 février 2012 - 04:47 .

[CrutchCricket]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
And yes, Miranda is universally more important than Tali and Garrus. I've explained numerous times. I don't think I need to waste breath and time doing it again.

Why not? Everyone's b!tching, yet again... might as well go through the whole repetoire.

Should really find a way of warning newbs who just come in: "If you're thinking of asking about Miranda - don't."

Nothing good will come of it.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 12 février 2012 - 04:49 .

[PseudoEthnic]

Liara has more importance than almost any other squadmate around because she's the Shadow Broker and a prothean expert. Other than fighting Cerberus, Miranda doesn't have that much to offer.

[MisterJB]

Tali was, at first, supposed to be an active player only on the Geth/Quarian conflict.
Then, fan demand convinced the devs to make her a permanent squadmate.
So yeah, I call BS on everyone playing his or her role.

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
And yes, Miranda is universally more important than Tali and Garrus. I've explained numerous times. I don't think I need to waste breath and time doing it again.

Why not? Everyone's b!tching, yet again... might as well go through the whole repetoire.

Should really find a way of warning newbs who just come in. If you're thinking of asking about Miranda - don't.

Nothing good will come of it.

@bold- What are you talking about?

[CrutchCricket]

Recheck original post Lemon. Additional punctuation should make it clear.

[XX55XX]

PseudoEthnic wrote...

Liara has more importance than almost any other squadmate around because she's the Shadow Broker and a prothean expert. Other than fighting Cerberus, Miranda doesn't have that much to offer.

Well, admittedly, she is a little Mary Sue-ish, perhaps as a result of the writers' collective biases. But, in the context of how she's presented, I agree. 

[Han Shot First]

PseudoEthnic wrote...

Liara has more importance than almost any other squadmate around because she's the Shadow Broker and a prothean expert. Other than fighting Cerberus, Miranda doesn't have that much to offer.

While you are correct about Liara, Miranda supervised the Lazarus Project. Besides being the greatest medical achievement in the history of the galaxy, the Lazarus Project also saved the galaxy from the Reapers. The Reapers succeed if Shepard isn't in the picture. So Miranda's plot relevance in the series is very close to that of Liara, regardless of her role in ME3.