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[husky husk]

God damn lemon you've posted on every page since 1406 on every hour for the past 14 hours, take a break sheesh

Modifié par husky husk, 12 février 2012 - 07:26 .

[AgitatedLemon]

husky husk wrote...

God damn lemon you've posted on every page since 1406 on every hour for the past 14 hours, take a break sheesh

no u

I don't post when I'm asleep.

[shepard1038]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

husky husk wrote...

God damn lemon you've posted on every page since 1406 on every hour for the past 14 hours, take a break sheesh

no u

I don't post when I'm asleep.

You're taking tomorrow off without pay.

Modifié par shepard1038, 12 février 2012 - 07:30 .

[Ieldra]

Skullheart wrote...
Liara is the SB because bioware needed their favorite character to be something more than an archeologist.

btw, you think that Miranda could be better SB than Liara? She migh have years of experience in espionage. And I bet she know more than Liara about coordinating groups to gather intelligence.

Yes, indeed I think Miranda would've been a better fit for the role of SB. I actually expected Miranda to become Shepard's primary intelligence-gatherer because of her experience. Instead they shoehorned Liara into that role, who has no experience whatsoever. I like ME2-Liara much better than ME1-Liara, but that doesn't change that her character wasn't just derailed - it was exchanged. 

[Han Shot First]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I haven't read Retribution (I know a basic plot synopsis), but what gives you the impression it's decimated? AFAIK, it just introduces Kai Leng, and builds up to Invasion.

I only read the book once after it was first released, so I don't remember the specific passage(s). But Cerberus is described as a relatively small organization made up of cells that operate independently from one another. It isn't the army that they appear to field in Mass Effect 3, so *something* happens between ME2 and ME3 that allows Cerberus to greatly expand. (without spoilers, I'd guess indoctrination)

In Retribution Cerberus is compromised by Grayson, a Cerberus agent that became disillusioned and sort of turns rogue. He passes on vital information on Cerberus to another character called Kahlee Sanders, who then goes to Anderson with it. He in turn goes to the Turians, because he doesn't fully know what politicians and military brass in the Alliance are compromised by Cerberus. The Turians then start raiding Cerberus facilities and rolling up all the Cerberus cells based on the Grayson intel, and come extremely close to capturing the Illusive Man. He barely escapes just ahead of a Turian raid. The Turians do manage to eliminate a lot of the Cerberus cells, and the impression given is that they've been decimated, but not destroyed.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 12 février 2012 - 07:47 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Han Shot First wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I haven't read Retribution (I know a basic plot synopsis), but what gives you the impression it's decimated? AFAIK, it just introduces Kai Leng, and builds up to Invasion.

I only read the book once after it was first released, so I don't remember the specific passage(s). But Cerberus is described as a relatively small organization made up of cells that operate independently from one another. It isn't the army that they appear to field in Mass Effect 3, so *something* happens between ME2 and ME3 that allows Cerberus to greatly expand. (without spoilers, I'd guess indoctrination)

In Retribution Cerberus is compromised by Grayson, a Cerberus agent that became disillusioned and sort of turns rogue. He passes on vital information on Cerberus to another character called Kahlee Sanders, who then goes to Anderson with it. He in turn goes to the Turians, because he doesn't fully know what politicians and military brass in the Alliance are compromised by Cerberus. The Turians then start raiding Cerberus facilities and rolling up all the Cerberus cells, and come extremely close to capturing the Illusive Man. He barely escapes just ahead of a Turian raid. The Turians do manage to eliminate a lot of the Cerberus cells, and the impression given is that they've been decimated, but not destroyed.

It's always been a relatively small organization (15 cells of a dozen or so people, I believe), and their army is explained in ME3 (Actually a decent excuse, and it's more than just "Dey wuz indoctrinated"

[Ieldra]

About Miranda's role in Cerberus:

*spoiler*In the leaked script, there is a line where she refers to herself as "the former Cerberus second-in-command". We do not know if this line is conditional on having kept the base.*/spoiler*

[shepard1038]

If Miranda is still with Cerberus in Me3 I will dump her.

[AgitatedLemon]

shepard1038 wrote...

If Miranda is still with Cerberus in Me3 I will dump her.

... She isn't.

[Ieldra]

Han Shot First wrote...
Question for those that read the leaks: Why do you hate Miranda's role in ME3? I'm not looking for specific spoilers, but rather a general answer that doesn't reveal too much. Is it just because she is not a permanent squadmate, or is there more to it than that? Doing things that are out of character, or an unavoidable 'bad' ending for the character?

I think I'll repeat this answer since I don't know if you noticed this was meant to answer your question:

jtav wrote...

• Excessive focus or Oriana to the exclusion of other aspects of her personality, particularly her belief in human advancement
• Incidental connection to the Cerberus plot
• She never reflects on her time with Cerberus or confronts TIM on screen
• No unique contribution to the war effort. What she does can be done by at least two others, including Oriana if she's dead

I want to be absolutely clear that I think the writing is generally fantastic and has given me a new appreciation for several characters. Which makes the poor quality of Miranda's role a very bitter pill to swallow.

This sums up the feelings of most of us here. We're all setting our hopes in the noticeable incompleteness of the script, which isn't much to go on.

@everyone:
Bookmark jtav's post (or this one) and link to it every time someone asks what the complaining is all about.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 février 2012 - 08:14 .

[husky husk]

15 hours 14 pages und counting

[AgitatedLemon]

husky husk wrote...

15 hours 14 pages und counting

Not stopping yet.

[Ieldra]

jreezy wrote...
So what are you all complaining about?

Look two posts above yours. No need to post a link.

As for some good news, there's this:


Only two seconds, but better than nothing.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 février 2012 - 08:35 .

[husky husk]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

husky husk wrote...

15 hours 14 pages und counting

Not stopping yet.

Well shall see Mr. Bond

[Ieldra]

A few points about Miranda's "coldness" in response to the debate I missed while I was sleeping:

(1) Being cold *does* imply an absence of emotion. Coldness is not an emotion. All too often, though, it gets confused with hate or with being vengeful.

(2) I prefer to say that Miranda is emotionally detached (in professional situations), not cold. Which means she has emotions about what she's doing, but she lets them take a backseat and doesn't let them influence her actions. Of course it is impossible to say for sure from the outside but I think it fits more with her character. The Niket situation is a good example. After killing him, she says "I regret it came to that, but I did what had to be done". Obviously no one would think Miranda feels nothing about Niket, right? Still, he *was* a loose end that had to be cut off. (People may speculate that there's something of revenge in her killing him, but that's another topic). Other situations like Wilson only differ because Miranda didn't have strong emotional ties in the first place, but I can't imagine she'd feel nothing about having to kill a colleague who worked with her on Lazarus for two years and may as well be the only one who can appreciate what they did on a scientific level.

@jreezy:
Well yeah, we've been talking about the lack of a redesign for several pages in the last two days. Disappointing. At least there's some hope she'll get the loyalty outfit if she comes out of ME2 loyal. Otherwise, we'll have to wait for JeanLuc761 and his retextures. If you ask me, it's only a matter of time until we see Miranda in her AAP2 armor.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 février 2012 - 08:49 .

[husky husk]

Ieldra2 wrote...

A few points about Miranda's "coldness" in response to the debate I missed while I was sleeping:

(1) Being cold *does* imply an absence of emotion. Coldness is not an emotion. All too often, though, it gets confused with hate or with being vengeful.

(2) I prefer to say that Miranda is emotionally detached (in professional situations), not cold. Which means she has emotions about what she's doing, but she lets them take a backseat and doesn't let them influence her actions. Of course it is impossible to say for sure from the outside but I think it fits more with her character. The Niket situation is a good example. After killing him, she says "I regret it came to that, but I did what had to be done". Obviously no one would think Miranda feels nothing about Niket, right? Still, he *was* a loose end that had to be cut off. (People may speculate that there's something of revenge in her killing him, but that's another topic). Other situations like Wilson only differ because Miranda didn't have strong emotional ties in the first place, but I can't imagine she'd feel nothing about having to kill a colleague who worked with her on Lazarus for two years and may as well be the only one who can appreciate what they did on a scientific level.

@jreezy:
Well yeah, we've been talking about the lack of a redesign for several pages in the last two days. Disappointing. At least there's some hope she'll get the loyalty outfit if she comes out of ME2 loyal. Otherwise, we'll have to wait for JeanLuc761 and his retextures. If you ask me, it's only a matter of time until we see Miranda in her AAP2 armor.

Please please please oh please.
Anyway notice the difference in Miranda's facial expressions when shooting wilson and niket. I don't know about any of you but I see plenty of emotion in both.

Modifié par husky husk, 12 février 2012 - 08:56 .

[Ieldra]

Wilson? Yes, she was angry that he betrayed Lazarus and endangered her project. Niket? Not so much - she's rather offhand about killing him at the moment "Which means that you're the only loose end. This isn't how I wanted it to end. I'm going to miss you..." *shoots* "...figuratively speaking".

What I meant was that Miranda doesn't let the ties that had between her and Wilson or Niket before influence her decision. Which is understandable in Wilson's case but remarkable in Niket's. He was a lifelong friend after all.

[GodWood]

jreezy wrote...
Awesome. Still, her having the same attire is lazy.

My opinion of Miranda on my first few playthroughs: Hated her as a person for a variety of reasons. Fortunately, this need not be a bad thing.

E.g) In DA:O I hated Alistair as a person but still saw him was a well written character whose personality and presentation made him feel like a real person and thus made his presence in the game enjoyable.

Unfortunately, Miranda did not have this luxury. Her entire presentation reduced her character to the role of ******-bait (the camera shots, the outfit, the hypersexualization etc) and because of this I hated her existence in the game.

My opinion of Miranda on my last playthrough of ME2: With the addition of her DLC armour Miranda was less of a ******-bait character and because of this I was able to appreciate her more. No longer was she the sexed up, unprofessional tart whose sole purpose was purely ****** material for kids who are too scared to look up porn on their parent's computers. Instead she was Shepard's second in command who although he clashed with on a number occasions was still a respected member of the Normandy (who had a few unfortunate camera angles, was too stupid to tie up her hair, wear a helmet etc)


Now in ME3 she's back to the tart costume. Thanks Bioware.

[kainee]

My favorite outfit for Miranda is the black catsuit (witout the Cerberus logo).
*Pray she will wear this one if she's loyal*

I hate the AAP armor, I hope she won't wear that .. thing.

[MassEffect4Eva1710]

God! I hate my brother! I introduced him to ME2 ages ago and occasionally we argue about ME3 and what should be in it. He keeps saying to me that Miranda has no story, isn't important to the story and is just a waste of space in the game! He's planning to kill her in his next play through. I try and have a rational conversation to him about the game and he just keeps bringing up how Garrus and Tali are the best characters and have the best stories! Sorry for complaining here but just wanted your opinion on something; story-wise, are Garrus and Tali better than Miranda to you? Because I believe my brother's stupid...but I want other peoples opinion.

[kainee]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

"Talking bad about Miri" is putting it lightly.

Yeah.
She deserves to be tossed out the airlock, for what she says.