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[Han Shot First]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

StonedBatman wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

StonedBatman wrote...

jtav wrote...

Some people do find classical music fun. She also seems to be something of a clothes horse.

They might like it, but it ain't fun.

A clothes horse, are you kidding me?

I find classical music can be fun... but then I'm one of those that can sit and listen to music for hours without doing anything else so......

Sitting there, listening to classical isn't fun. You enjoy it. Difference.

It is fun for those that enjoy it.

People who go out to see their local town/city orchestra aren't doing it just because they enjoy the music. If that were the case, they'd just stay at home and listen to music. They go out because they find the live performance fun.

Considering the fact that Miranda is an intellectual, her digging classical music is totally 'in charater.' If she were a slackjawed simpleton on the other hand, I'd expect her to like Rap.

I like rap (Not that "in da hood gangsta" crap though) and I'm not a "slackjawed simpleton".

Of course that wouldn't apply to everyone who listens to rap music. I'm sure right now in fact, that at MIT there is probably someone listening to rap tunes while doing homework. But if you took a 1000 people who listened to classical music and another 1000 people who listened to rap music, and made them all take the same intelligence test, I guarantee that the classical music group would blow the rap group completely out of the water.

For the record I'm not a fan of classical music and wouldn't know Mozart from Bach, so I have no vested interest in whose fans are smarter. But it is a fact that fans of classical music tend to come from a demographic that is more affluent, educated, and professional than the demographic of fans of rap music. Since Miranda is an intellectual who is both highly educated and from an elite, affluent family, her liking classical music makes sense.

[jtav]

By paranoid, I mean seriously wonder whether it matters whether she lives or dies.

[StonedBatman]

1. "Deals with her own problems." No, she doesn't. She needs your help with her sister. The only squadmates who doesn't ask for your help is Kaidan and Ashley.
2. "Plays in the same league as Shepard." Liara is the damn shadow broker. And most of the love interest are more badass/stronger than Miranda.
3. Yeah, well you're right about that. She has no emotions.


The rest... I couldn't really care.

[AgitatedLemon]

Han Shot First wrote...

Of course that wouldn't apply to everyone who listens to rap music. I'm sure right now in fact, that at MIT there is probably someone listening to rap tunes while doing homework. But if you took a 1000 people who listened to classical music and another 1000 people who listened to rap music, and made them all take the same intelligence test, I guarantee that the classical music group would blow the rap group completely out of the water.

For the record I'm not a fan of classical music and wouldn't know Mozart from Bach, so I have no vested interest in whose fans are smarter. But it is a fact that fans of classical music tend to come from a demographic that is more affluent, educated, and professional than the demographic of fans of rap music. Since Miranda is an intellectual who is both highly educated and from an elite, affluent family, her liking classical music makes sense.

Fair enough.

[AgitatedLemon]

StonedBatman wrote...

1. "Deals with her own problems." No, she doesn't. She needs your help with her sister. The only squadmates who doesn't ask for your help is Kaidan and Ashley.
2. "Plays in the same league as Shepard." Liara is the damn shadow broker. And most of the love interest are more badass/stronger than Miranda.
3. Yeah, well you're right about that. She has no emotions.


The rest... I couldn't really care.

1. Because she can't do it on her own. 

2. Subjective. Like I said earlier, it'd be fine if you left it at opinions, but you continuously shove your veiws down our throats, and we clearly don't see it like you, so stop.

3. You missed the point by a mile. Or you didn't read the following bullet.

Your omission of the remaining topics shows that your mind isn't going to change. Again, if you have nothing to actually contribute, and aren't going to do anything besides bash Miranda, just leave.

[StonedBatman]

I'm glad Miranda won't be a squadmate. Thank you god! And no Jacob too? Win. Win.

Those two would make the perfect couple. They're both dull and boring.

[Rasofe]

Lemon, I think you forgot that part where Miranda has incredible expectations she couldn't possibly live up to put on her. She's like Shepard, but not enough - as evidenced throughout most of the Mass Effect 2 plot, she's first reluctant to work with Shepard on account of him/her likely becoming TIM's most important asset, but she gradually realises that even though she's good at just about anything she decides to do...
... Shepard can do it better.

And if you go down the LI route with Miranda, it's like two atomic nuclei speeding towards each other, first repulsing due to their similarity, but then attracting due to more powerful forces, only to become one indivisible whole...

Damn, you could write poems with this stuff.

Oh, about the Captain Lawson discussion, remmember that Miranda can do ANYTHING, but that doesn't mean she'll be perfect at it. Anyone who used her as a biotic shield in the final mission will know because the bees have stolen Garrus from your squad.

[Skullheart]

Lemon, he's just a troll. Account created today, just ignore him.

[ThomGau]

Rasofe wrote...

Lemon, I think you forgot that part where Miranda has incredible expectations she couldn't possibly live up to put on her. She's like Shepard, but not enough - as evidenced throughout most of the Mass Effect 2 plot, she's first reluctant to work with Shepard on account of him/her likely becoming TIM's most important asset, but she gradually realises that even though she's good at just about anything she decides to do...
... Shepard can do it better.

And if you go down the LI route with Miranda, it's like two atomic nuclei speeding towards each other, first repulsing due to their similarity, but then attracting due to more powerful forces, only to become one indivisible whole...

Damn, you could write poems with this stuff.

I like this allegory

[ThomGau]

Double post, this bloody lag ><

Modifié par ThomGau, 15 février 2012 - 09:41 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Rasofe wrote...

Lemon, I think you forgot that part where Miranda has incredible expectations she couldn't possibly live up to put on her. She's like Shepard, but not enough - as evidenced throughout most of the Mass Effect 2 plot, she's first reluctant to work with Shepard on account of him/her likely becoming TIM's most important asset, but she gradually realises that even though she's good at just about anything she decides to do...
... Shepard can do it better.

And if you go down the LI route with Miranda, it's like two atomic nuclei speeding towards each other, first repulsing due to their similarity, but then attracting due to more powerful forces, only to become one indivisible whole...

What are you responding to?

[CrutchCricket]

Rasofe wrote...
Oh, about the Captain Lawson discussion, remmember that Miranda can do ANYTHING, but that doesn't mean she'll be perfect at it. Anyone who used her as a biotic shield in the final mission will know because the bees have stolen Garrus from your squad.

Who said she needed to be perfect? Let's be quite clear here, she's not perfect. She was intended to be perfect in terms of genetics. But she is still human.

Anyway, she may not be strong enough to maintain the biotic bubble but she is an good leader, good enough I think to command her own ship.

Besides I think there's a subtle difference in having a ship and a crew to get a job done vs. just having a command. I may not have the words to describe it right now but there is a difference between an officer like Anderson getting a ship and just doing drills or patrols or whatever and Miranda specifically using her ship to accomplish a mission. I just can't put a name to that difference though.

[AgitatedLemon]

jtav wrote...

By paranoid, I mean seriously wonder whether it matters whether she lives or dies.

I'm more than certain it does.

If she is the *only* character who's asset can be attained via different means, then it means one of two things.

1. Bioware created her to be an emotional foil, and had planned and expected her to be dead.

or

2. Bioware doesn't know how to organize their own game and they fail at testing.

Hell, it could be both.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 15 février 2012 - 10:09 .

[ClanMacNab]

ThomGau wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

Lemon, I think you forgot that part where Miranda has incredible expectations she couldn't possibly live up to put on her. She's like Shepard, but not enough - as evidenced throughout most of the Mass Effect 2 plot, she's first reluctant to work with Shepard on account of him/her likely becoming TIM's most important asset, but she gradually realises that even though she's good at just about anything she decides to do...
... Shepard can do it better.

And if you go down the LI route with Miranda, it's like two atomic nuclei speeding towards each other, first repulsing due to their similarity, but then attracting due to more powerful forces, only to become one indivisible whole...

Damn, you could write poems with this stuff.

I like this allegory

Yeah, I like it too.

[AgitatedLemon]

ClanMacNab wrote...

ThomGau wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

Lemon, I think you forgot that part where Miranda has incredible expectations she couldn't possibly live up to put on her. She's like Shepard, but not enough - as evidenced throughout most of the Mass Effect 2 plot, she's first reluctant to work with Shepard on account of him/her likely becoming TIM's most important asset, but she gradually realises that even though she's good at just about anything she decides to do...
... Shepard can do it better.

And if you go down the LI route with Miranda, it's like two atomic nuclei speeding towards each other, first repulsing due to their similarity, but then attracting due to more powerful forces, only to become one indivisible whole...

Damn, you could write poems with this stuff.

I like this allegory

Yeah, I like it too.

Count me in there as well.

[Rasofe]

Thnx, lads.
I wasn't really responding, Lemon, just putting in addition to your 10 reasons for Shepard liking Miranda.

@Crutchcricket I wasn't saying... look, sure she could lead a Frigate the way Shepard does, but Shepard would be better, see? She could command a fire team in the final mission, but Shepard would have to command the main squad that went to kill the Reaper. As for her preferences, like she said herself, whatever she chooses, she can do it. Maybe just not as well as someone that specialised in that field, but certainly well enough to "get the job done", after all losing a squadmate in the swarm field is better than not being able to go through at all.

Imagine sending Miranda, Garrus and Jacob to fight the Reaper and holding the rear door yourself. That would be an interesting strategic option. I mean, you don't really have to kill the Reaper, it will die (or at least won't be finished) if you blow up the base and I'm certain those three could handle the first half of the boss fight on their own.

Also, I don't agree they planned to kill her. I had a playthrough where I tried all the options to keep Miranda from being alive or present in the final battle (to see if there would be different dialogue) and the game simply doesn't let her die in any way except for "lack of loyalty death" at the very end.

[AgitatedLemon]

Rasofe wrote...

Also, I don't agree they planned to kill her. I had a playthrough where I tried all the options to keep Miranda from being alive or present in the final battle (to see if there would be different dialogue) and the game simply doesn't let her die in any way except for "lack of loyalty death" at the very end.

They may not have planned to kill her, but I smell a rat in the writing team, given Miranda's LotSB dossier. It is *literally* the only one I have seen near universal hate and vitriol for. Ask anyone else, and they'll all say that everyone (Even Zaeed and Kasumi) had better dossiers.

I challenge you to read it and not vomit. +10 points if you can do this.

I then challenge you to honestly like it. +100 points.

[ClanMacNab]

Rasofe wrote...

...Also, I don't agree they planned to kill her. I had a playthrough where I tried all the options to keep Miranda from being alive or present in the final battle (to see if there would be different dialogue) and the game simply doesn't let her die in any way except for "lack of loyalty death" at the very end.

Funny how one dumb decision over a cat fight can tip that in the wrong direction...

[Rasofe]

What? I read it, played LotSB yesterday as a matter of fact.
Sure she's got a private life that's a bit iffy and heartless, but that's the sort of think Shepard has to sweep in and swoop her away from - you know, a real relationship instead of casual sex.
Also the conversation between her and Oriana showed a good deal of her personality. She doesn't know anything really about love - she reads out that stuff to her Oriana from a cheap advice book. She's in over her head with Shepard, and she knows it - but she wouldn't stop if a gun was pointed to her head.
Honest truth.

[ClanMacNab]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

Also, I don't agree they planned to kill her. I had a playthrough where I tried all the options to keep Miranda from being alive or present in the final battle (to see if there would be different dialogue) and the game simply doesn't let her die in any way except for "lack of loyalty death" at the very end.

They may not have planned to kill her, but I smell a rat in the writing team, given Miranda's LotSB dossier. It is *literally* the only one I have seen near universal hate and vitriol for. Ask anyone else, and they'll all say that everyone (Even Zaeed and Kasumi) had better dossiers.

I challenge you to read it and not vomit. +10 points if you can do this.

I then challenge you to honestly like it. +100 points.

I ignored everything in that dossier, except the exchange between her and Oriana.

[CrutchCricket]

Rasofe wrote...
@Crutchcricket I wasn't saying... look, sure she could lead a Frigate the way Shepard does, but Shepard would be better, see? She could command a fire team in the final mission, but Shepard would have to command the main squad that went to kill the Reaper. As for her preferences, like she said herself, whatever she chooses, she can do it. Maybe just not as well as someone that specialised in that field, but certainly well enough to "get the job done", after all losing a squadmate in the swarm field is better than not being able to go through at all.

Imagine sending Miranda, Garrus and Jacob to fight the Reaper and holding the rear door yourself. That would be an interesting strategic option. I mean, you don't really have to kill the Reaper, it will die (or at least won't be finished) if you blow up the base and I'm certain those three could handle the first half of the boss fight on their own.

The idea was for thought of for beyond the games. Well actually I brought it up many moons (read: pages) ago as a potential scenario I would be willing to accept if permanent squadmate was not on the table. And it wasn't a matter of Miranda replacing Shepard as commander, but instead having a sister ship which can do its own missions and/or come pew-pew the big bad Reapers or their minions alongside the Normandy.
Obviously that's not happening so the idea is now a hypothetical for Miranda post-ME3, get it?

And I actually think it would be interesting (in a sort of "for science!" way) if you could send a squad to accomplish a main objective while you yourself held the line. Not just for the suicide mission but for other scenarios as well. That whole "choices you make and war assets" thing could determine whether they succeed or not. Gameplay wise it would probably suck which is why I say it as a hypothetical experiment.

Lemon: I also disagree anyone "has it in" for Miranda. And the only part of the dossier I dislike is the Oriana chat. If there's any dastardly intent in it it's more to do with hammering you with the righteous "don't mess with nature, genetic engineering is BAD!" message as opposed to trying to turn you on the character.

[AgitatedLemon]

Rasofe wrote...

What? I read it, played LotSB yesterday as a matter of fact.
Sure she's got a private life that's a bit iffy and heartless, but that's the sort of think Shepard has to sweep in and swoop her away from - you know, a real relationship instead of casual sex.
Also the conversation between her and Oriana showed a good deal of her personality. She doesn't know anything really about love - she reads out that stuff to her Oriana from a cheap advice book. She's in over her head with Shepard, and she knows it - but she wouldn't stop if a gun was pointed to her head.
Honest truth.

That's kind of the point. She talks to what... 6 guys on that extranet site? Anyone who doesn't know Miranda would immediately just think "What a sl*t".

Same with a blind interpretation of her chat with Oriana. "Wow, she sounds borderline socially retarded and doesn't know how to talk to her own sister."

Or with her doctor's letter. "What? No babies? This woman isn't worth my time anymore."

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 15 février 2012 - 10:46 .

[Rasofe]

Some people are thick. Like Shepard said, sometimes people are cruel, selfish even... but they deserve a chance.

[Kabraxal]

I didn't mind the implications that she couldn't concieve or carry a child or Oriana's bit in the dossier... what I didn't like, and with most of the dossiers, was the inclusion of throwaway sexualised jokes. They weren't funny in any of the dossiers at all...

[AgitatedLemon]

Kabraxal wrote...

I didn't mind the implications that she couldn't concieve or carry a child or Oriana's bit in the dossier... what I didn't like, and with most of the dossiers, was the inclusion of throwaway sexualised jokes. They weren't funny in any of the dossiers at all...

I didn't mind those 2 bits either. I thought Oriana's chat excerpt was hilarious, truth be told, and while I was certainly sad that Miranda was infertile, it wasn't nearly enough for me to drop her as a romance or as my favorite character. I'm fairly neutral on her extranet log (Where she buys things and updates various magazine subscriptions).

That said, the dating logs I thought were vomit inducing and don't exist.