82210 réponses à ce sujet

[AgitatedLemon]

Alex Arterius wrote...

Day one patch that intergrates her as part of the squad.

Yeah.. I wont get my hopes up

Better yet.

She's a part of the squad, Bioware just leaked false info to get us riled up, then pleasantly surprise us once the game comes out.

It's incredibly pointless, but a good laugh from both parties.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 16 février 2012 - 05:06 .

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

Of *course* you can reject canon. I say this as someone who's very meticulous about my lore research. Stop watching before the horrible episode. If you're of a slightly more creative bent, fix it in writing. I killed Miranda off specifically so she'd have to sit out what would have been her mission. My version isn't less real than BW's. Miranda Lawson isn't going to sue me for libel for saying she's indoctrinated. I can tell a good story or a bad one, but not a less real one.

No you can't. I'm not talking about Mass Effect because there is no canon but what you make for yourself. But for every other work, what you see is what you get. If you want to go several layers of convoluted routing to rewrite something, that's up to you but you still have to accept it happened. So if you don't like that Snape killed Dumbledore you can write a rambling fic where he's somehow resurrected but you still have to acknowledge that Snape did in fact kill Dumbledore. Anything else is an insult.

jtav wrote...

Liara has plot armor Miranda lacks. DLC already has a more limited audience; they'll release things everyone can play.

Irrelevant. Everyone has the opportunity to keep Miranda alive to play the DLC. Therefore everyone can play the DLC. Plot armor doesn't matter.

Dr. Doctor wrote...
On the whole Protoss subject I support Zeratul as a squadmate in ME3.

F*CK YES! Perma-cloaked squadmate with better teleport and backstab abilities than Kasumi? Everyone else is redundant.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 16 février 2012 - 05:07 .

[jtav]

It's not that she isn't a squadmate; it's that the only things she cares about are Oriana and a romanced Shep. She doesn't really talk about her time with Cerberus or how she feels about them and their new direction and whether she feels any guilt. Her idealism, ambition, and nasty streak are all absent. She's perfectly pleasant, uncontroversial, and boring. If the leak is it, she died in ME2 and ME3 is only the body catching up.

I could do better.

[AgitatedLemon]

CrutchCricket wrote...

F*CK YES! Perma-cloaked squadmate with better teleport and backstab abilities than Kasumi? Everyone else is redundant.

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if the Prothean's name was Terazul and he befriends a human named Rim Jaynor, and they fight the leader of the Reapers, named Kerrig An.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 16 février 2012 - 05:13 .

[jtav]

Crutch, no I don't. I have to acknowledge Snape killed Dumbledore in Half-Blood Prince. But those are not real events. I can't grab a newspaper giving me an account of Dumbledore's death. I'm free to modify those events as I please. And who's to say I'm wrong? Disney has made a fortune butchering fairy tales beyond all recognition. The only difference is copyright. And if I want to toss HBP/Deception/ME3 into the discontinuity bin, no one can stop me.

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

Crutch, no I don't. I have to acknowledge Snape killed Dumbledore in Half-Blood Prince. But those are not real events. I can't grab a newspaper giving me an account of Dumbledore's death. I'm free to modify those events as I please. And who's to say I'm wrong? Disney has made a fortune butchering fairy tales beyond all recognition. The only difference is copyright. And if I want to toss HBP/Deception/ME3 into the discontinuity bin, no one can stop me.

Canon is set by the original creators. If they say something is, it is. If you want to subscribe to their work, you subscribe to all of it as is. If you want to add your own spin or changes to it in fanfiction you should build on what is there not just cut away as you please. And your example is totally off. Disney did complete reinterpretations/retellings of the stories and they did so some time after the original stories were created. They didn't just say "ok we'll take this first part exactly and go with it because we like it, but **** this second part we want to do this." Essentially they become different works.
Do you not see the double standard you'd be pulling with what you're suggesting? Why are people so pissed off about Deception? Because it screws with the continuity right? When what's his name did it it was a mistake and it should be burned. But you (the hypothetical fanfic writer, not you specifically) can do it diliberately and call it, what freedom of artistic license? Please. Why do you think LucasArts keeps such a tight reign over their books? Because they want to preserve the continuity. You can't just ignore Luke blowing up the Death Star or Anakin being a Podracing slave just because you don't like it.

The only amendments I have to make are what-if scenarios. Plenty of those have been written but they're clearly marked as alternate universes or whatever.

All that being said I sense we're diverging from my original point. There are ways to get around undesirable events when writing (though even here I say get around, not erase from existance). That's different from just denying the existance of something canonical for yourself, as a fan. Just making sure that distinction is clear.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 16 février 2012 - 05:43 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Of *course* you can reject canon. I say this as someone who's very meticulous about my lore research. Stop watching before the horrible episode. If you're of a slightly more creative bent, fix it in writing. I killed Miranda off specifically so she'd have to sit out what would have been her mission. My version isn't less real than BW's. Miranda Lawson isn't going to sue me for libel for saying she's indoctrinated. I can tell a good story or a bad one, but not a less real one.

This.

Canon isn't sacrosanct, and fans have again and again rejected sequels with more or less justification. If Miranda's story is so bad that I can't make it acceptable by mentally filling in the gaps, then I'll retreat into fanfic. I won't be here anymore though...

I don't really expect it to be that bad, but only because I find it hard to imagine that Bioware would do that. On the other hand, look what they did with Liara between ME1 and ME2 - quite possible that Miranda will get the reverse treatment, going from badass to safe and conventional.

@CrutchCricket:
I think the reasoning for the Prothean having survived is OK. The Protheans were scattered across the galaxy, who're you to say that one couldn't have survived in an isolated and remote place. Apart from that, I like the Prothean simply because he subverts the "Benevolent Precursor" trope so hard. I've always hated that theory about the Protheans, and now it's disproven first-hand.  

Modifié par Ieldra2, 16 février 2012 - 06:09 .

[Td1984]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I don't watch Chuck, but everyone in this thread seems to utterly despise the finale.

I don't think anyone even holds it as halfway decent.

Over the course of the final 3 episodes, they destroyed the entire series up to that point. It was horrible (and that doesn't even begin to describe it).

[Jynthor]

Am I the only one in here who doesn't give a damn about Yvonne?

[AgitatedLemon]

Jynthor wrote...

Am I the only one in here who doesn't give a damn about Yvonne?

Yes.

[Ieldra]

Jynthor wrote...
Am I the only one in here who doesn't give a damn about Yvonne?

No you aren't. Yvonne voices Miranda, and she does so rather well in ME2. I appreciate her for that, but that's it.

[jtav]

Same here. I've at times lobbied for her replacement just so I wouldn't have to deal with the fanboying.

[Jynthor]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Jynthor wrote...
Am I the only one in here who doesn't give a damn about Yvonne?

No you aren't. Yvonne voices Miranda, and she does so rather well in ME2. I appreciate her for that, but that's it.

That's pretty much how I feel as well, I like Miranda's character a lot but have no interest in anything Yvonne beyond that.

[ThomGau]

Count me in.
Yvonne really gives life to Miranda with a very good voice acting in ME2.
Apart from that, I'm not a big fan of her. I watched Chuck by curiosity and I wasn't really amazed.

Modifié par ThomGau, 16 février 2012 - 06:27 .

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...
This.

Canon isn't sacrosanct, and fans have again and again rejected sequels with more or less justification. If Miranda's story is so bad that I can't make it acceptable by mentally filling in the gaps, then I'll retreat into fanfic. I won't be here anymore though...

I don't really expect it to be that bad, but only because I find it hard to imagine that Bioware would do that. On the other hand, look what they did with Liara between ME1 and ME2 - quite possible that Miranda will get the reverse treatment, going from badass to safe and conventional.

@CrutchCricket:
I think the reasoning for the Prothean having survived is OK. The Protheans were scattered across the galaxy, who're you to say that one couldn't have survived in an isolated and remote place. Apart from that, I like the Prothean simply because he subverts the "Benevolent Precursor" trope so hard. I've always hated that theory about the Protheans, and now it's disproven first-hand.  

What each individual does is up to them. Personally I hate hearing "the sequels didn't happen" or any such nonsense. I tend to leave conversations where that is the prevailing philosophy. I want nothing to do with it.

Regarding the Protheans, I know you want them demystified. Some would prefer they remain with their mystique. But that's only one concern. I believe it is very clearly specified that the only reason Ilos endured is because the Reapers didn't know of its very existance. How likely is it that another such facility was similarily unnoticed? To say nothing of the fact that we're not just talking one single cryo pod buried in the sand for a few years here. We're talking 50 000 years of life support. Vigil had to cut life support to every single Prothean on Ilos just to maintain himself. How much power does an AI (even a super advanced one) need to stay functional for that long? I'm betting it ain't cheap to keep a Prothean on ice for that long. So we're talking another fairly sizable facility here. And only one? If you're suggesting some kind of "Ilos 2" why is there only one?

Too many leaps in logic, too convoluted, too unnecessary.

[nitefyre410]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

F*CK YES! Perma-cloaked squadmate with better teleport and backstab abilities than Kasumi? Everyone else is redundant.

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if the Prothean's name was Terazul and he befriends a human named Rim Jaynor, and they fight the leader of the Reapers, named Kerrig An.

 

and that he  is the last of  an order of Prothean  Shadow Knights... 

[AgitatedLemon]

ThomGau wrote...

Count me in.
Yvonne really gives life to Miranda with a very good voice acting in ME2.
Apart from that, I'm not a big fan of her. I watched Chuck by curiosity and I wasn't really amazed.

She was pretty good in some of the Chuck clips I've seen on their website, and I didn't mind her performance in Killer Elite.

Then again, I could just be grasping for straws, since I don't generally like Jason Statham movies.

[nitefyre410]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Of *course* you can reject canon. I say this as someone who's very meticulous about my lore research. Stop watching before the horrible episode. If you're of a slightly more creative bent, fix it in writing. I killed Miranda off specifically so she'd have to sit out what would have been her mission. My version isn't less real than BW's. Miranda Lawson isn't going to sue me for libel for saying she's indoctrinated. I can tell a good story or a bad one, but not a less real one.

This.

Canon isn't sacrosanct, and fans have again and again rejected sequels with more or less justification. If Miranda's story is so bad that I can't make it acceptable by mentally filling in the gaps, then I'll retreat into fanfic. I won't be here anymore though...

I don't really expect it to be that bad, but only because I find it hard to imagine that Bioware would do that. On the other hand, look what they did with Liara between ME1 and ME2 - quite possible that Miranda will get the reverse treatment, going from badass to safe and conventional.

@CrutchCricket:
I think the reasoning for the Prothean having survived is OK. The Protheans were scattered across the galaxy, who're you to say that one couldn't have survived in an isolated and remote place. Apart from that, I like the Prothean simply because he subverts the "Benevolent Precursor" trope so hard. I've always hated that theory about the Protheans, and now it's disproven first-hand.  

 


this is the main reason  there is Fanon and Canon.  

Unfortunately  the Canon is not overriden by the  Fanon though  sometimes it should be.. 

[Melra]

All who don't worship the goddess will end up in hell to be stabbed by gummibears, fact.

Peeeeople still keep just poking the old topics in here? *yawn*

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

Same here. I've at times lobbied for her replacement just so I wouldn't have to deal with the fanboying.

You'll have to point out said fanboying. Apart from MEFan (which might as well have his picture under the definition of fanboy) I haven't seen a whole lot on this thread.

I like Miranda. I like Yvonne. Even if I didn't I would not want  to see Miranda recast. On principle and all that.

[AgitatedLemon]

Melrache wrote...

All who don't worship the goddess will end up in hell to be stabbed by gummibears, fact.

Peeeeople still keep just poking the old topics in here? *yawn*

Beating dead horses kind of loses its appeal after so many years.

[Alex Arterius]

CrutchCricket wrote...

jtav wrote...

Same here. I've at times lobbied for her replacement just so I wouldn't have to deal with the fanboying.

You'll have to point out said fanboying. Apart from MEFan (which might as well have his picture under the definition of fanboy) I haven't seen a whole lot on this thread.

I like Miranda. I like Yvonne. Even if I didn't I would not want  to see Miranda recast. On principle and all that.

I guess the thing for me is that I was a Chuck fan before I was a ME fan, I'd watched 2-3 seasons worth of Chuck before I even played  ME, and ending aside,  along with Lost it's probably my favourite series. So when I heard Yvonne was voicing Miranda for ME2 I was very happy with the choice, I was probably in the minority who knew who she actually was haha. I knew she'd do a great job because of her outstanding preformance in Chuck. And with ME2 being so good it only enhanced my praise for her.

I do generally think she's one of the VA's who deserves the strong praise. I know a lot of people think she just got ther job because she's hot... but she really does have the talent to go with it, and I think her acting abilities rise above her looks for the majority of the time.

[jtav]

When the game first came out, you couldn't hold a conversation for all the Chuck discussion.

I object to Deception on the grounds that it erases disabled and homosexual characters, is poorly paced, and often muddled on a technical level. If Dietz had told a crackling good yarn, I doubt it would have kicked up nearly as much of a fuss, though there would have been some.complaining. Continuity is important, but it's a tool not a straightjacket. And once a creator creates something and releases it to the public, it belongs partly to that public. If the Miranda of the leak is the Miranda of ME3, then she is not the Miranda I fell for. And I won't say my version is less valid because it isn't creator-sanctioned. Once the work is released, the creator is irrelevent.

Modifié par jtav, 16 février 2012 - 06:55 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Is anyone going into ME3 with a Miranda/Shepard/(Someone else) love triangle?

[kainee]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Is anyone going into ME3 with a Miranda/Shepard/(Someone else) love triangle?

No.
All my male Shepard romanced only Miranda.
I don't like Liara and Ashley as characters, so why I would try a romance with them ?

Modifié par kainee, 16 février 2012 - 07:11 .