82210 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

It's not so much Garrus being in it--I could fix that if I wanted to--as "What the hell have they done to my favorite character?" I feel like I have to romance Liara now.

[The Elder King]

jtav wrote...

Tali can be justified by being tied to a trilogy-spanning plot thread. Garrus is just there because Ieldra and I are the only two people on the planet who hate his guts (sorry outmane)

Considering their role in ME3, I'm more fine with Garrus's presence in the SR-2 in ME3 than Tali (though I'd have preferred to have two ME2 exclusive squadmates in their places).

Modifié par hhh89, 17 février 2012 - 12:19 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

i like Garrus i would say him and my Shepard are best friends

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

@agitated lemon.

No, garrus doesn't have to join shepard, but it has always been his role to play Robin like you said, since M1. When I am saying he has always been central against the reapers, I mean, he has seen everything Shepard saw, and he is as concerned as him to find a way to win against the reapers. It isn't surprising to see him as permanente squadmate again, he has nothing else to do.

He could fight to defend Palaven, but again, if he knows that shep will try to find a way to win definitely against the reapers, he could totally join the normandy.

Miranda, isn't like him at all, she isn't Robin. It would be weird if it was the same.

@hhh89. I agree.

Again, the same can be extended to everyone. Wrex saw what Shepard saw, so did Liara, Ashley/Kaidan, etc...

He has never been "central against the Reapers". Hell, he couldn't even follow his own leads in ME1, and that was just against Saren.

Just because he "wants to take down the Reapers" doesn't all of a sudden make him important, or every person in the galaxy would be important.

you almost make Garrus sound stupid which he is not

[AgitatedLemon]

outmane wrote...

jtav wrote...

Tali can be justified by being tied to a trilogy-spanning plot thread. Garrus is just there because Ieldra and I are the only two people on the planet who hate his guts (sorry outmane)

No problem. Your tastes are just as valid as mines. I actually consider myself quite lucky to have my favorite character in all 3 games.

Just hope it wont ruin the game for you.


Edit: Miranda ends up being uloyal in my canon because of the Jack incident. If she is totally not herself in ME3, i might consider going back and bringing her to the final fight. That way she would be remembered as I enjoyed her. A worhty rival who went all the way for her ideals.

As much as I like Garrus, I'm about sick of having him and Tali shoveled down my throat against my will.

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...Just because he "wants to take down the Reapers" doesn't all of a sudden make him important, or every person in the galaxy would be important.

That was never his motivation. He was conducting an investigation on Saren, and was told to back off. His motivation for helping Shepard was to hunt down his own personal white whale. It was never about the reapers. After ME1, his relevance is entirely tied to fan service.

[The Elder King]

I have to say, I don't like very much having character that have a big role in the story as permanent squadmate. This is the reason why despite Wrex is my favourite squadmate and character in the IP I'm totally fine with his absence from the team, and why I don't like much the fact that Liara (though I have to say I know she'd be returning as squadmate, considering that she's the only squadmate in the IP so far that can't die) and other squadmates in ME3 are permanent squadmates.

Modifié par hhh89, 17 février 2012 - 12:26 .

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...Just because he "wants to take down the Reapers" doesn't all of a sudden make him important, or every person in the galaxy would be important.

That was never his motivation. He was conducting an investigation on Saren, and was told to back off. His motivation for helping Shepard was to hunt down his own personal white whale. It was never about the reapers. After ME1, his relevance is entirely tied to fan service.

I know, and that's my point. Sylvianus said that Garrus is a central character because He "wants to take down the Reapers".

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 17 février 2012 - 12:26 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

outmane wrote...

jtav wrote...

Tali can be justified by being tied to a trilogy-spanning plot thread. Garrus is just there because Ieldra and I are the only two people on the planet who hate his guts (sorry outmane)

No problem. Your tastes are just as valid as mines. I actually consider myself quite lucky to have my favorite character in all 3 games.

Just hope it wont ruin the game for you.


Edit: Miranda ends up being uloyal in my canon because of the Jack incident. If she is totally not herself in ME3, i might consider going back and bringing her to the final fight. That way she would be remembered as I enjoyed her. A worhty rival who went all the way for her ideals.

As much as I like Garrus, I'm about sick of having him and Tali shoveled down my throat against my will.

like in Me1 how they forced you to take Tali with you although she had nothing to contribute

[The Elder King]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...



like in Me1 how they forced you to take Tali with you although she had nothing to contribute

The same could been said for every squadmate in ME with maybe the exception of Liara, that could be useful due her knowledge about the Prothean.

Modifié par hhh89, 17 février 2012 - 12:28 .

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...Just because he "wants to take down the Reapers" doesn't all of a sudden make him important, or every person in the galaxy would be important.

That was never his motivation. He was conducting an investigation on Saren, and was told to back off. His motivation for helping Shepard was to hunt down his own personal white whale. It was never about the reapers. After ME1, his relevance is entirely tied to fan service.

I know, and that's my point. Sylvianus said that Garrus is a central character because He "wants to take down the Reapers".

I was agreeing with you, just wanted to clarify on why he was on the team at all in ME1. I agree with you as well, Dextro for three games? They got real exhausting real quick.

[AgitatedLemon]

hhh89 wrote...

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...



like in Me1 how they forced you to take Tali with you although she had nothing to contribute

The same could been said for every squadmate in ME with maybe the exception of Liara, that could be useful due her knowledge about the Prothean.

In ME1, maybe. Even then, Liara could have been dumped after scanning shepard's brain.

In ME2, there a number of more plot-centric characters. And by plot, I mean the overarching galactic story, not just the Reapers. 

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Speaking of useless characters. The reason I despise Kaidan so much is if find him so useless and annoying.He is crybaby and feels like a little kid who im forced to babysit

Modifié par Totally Not Swaggacide, 17 février 2012 - 12:33 .

[outmane]

Like it or not Garrus is not central to the ME storyline. He is a sidekick to Shepard. Some might find that displeasing and find him useless. Others might find that it creates a bond between him and Shepard. What ever floats your boat.

Personally I find that Garrus is well done sidekick character. His charactre arc lets you bond with him and care for what happens with him and you can also feel he cares for Shepard.
Opposite to that is Miranda, the perfect plot related character. she is bonded not to Shepard but to the mission. So she's pretty great too in her way. My Sheps loves hating her and having to recognize she needs her at the same time.

The kind of characters I personaly dislike are those less well implemented versions of the 2 archetypes I mentionned. Like Tali as a 'bro character' never feels badass enough. Or Liara as a plot character is too much of a 'deus ex machina' with no ideals of her own (we have no idea what she is aiming for in the long run).

Wrex is a good example of a character that goes perfectly from 'bro' (he is there for Shepard) in ME1 to 'plot relevance' in ME2-3 (his goals for the Krogans are clear and you can base decisions on them, not just on wanting to help him cause hes a bro)

Edit: spelling. i cant fix it all, sorry.

Modifié par outmane, 17 février 2012 - 12:36 .

[Td1984]

jtav wrote...

Tali can be justified by being tied to a trilogy-spanning plot thread. Garrus is just there because Ieldra and I are the only two people on the planet who hate his guts (sorry outmane)

I can't really stand him either. I'm really starting to hate him and Tali. I'd get them killed during the SM, but it might come back to bite me in the *** in ME3. Especially since if Tali is dead, I believe peace between the Quarians and Geth will be impossible.

[Sylvianus]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

@agitated lemon.

No, garrus doesn't have to join shepard, but it has always been his role to play Robin like you said, since M1. When I am saying he has always been central against the reapers, I mean, he has seen everything Shepard saw, and he is as concerned as him to find a way to win against the reapers. It isn't surprising to see him as permanente squadmate again, he has nothing else to do.

He could fight to defend Palaven, but again, if he knows that shep will try to find a way to win definitely against the reapers, he could totally join the normandy.

Miranda, isn't like him at all, she isn't Robin. It would be weird if it was the same.

@hhh89. I agree.

Again, the same can be extended to everyone. Wrex saw what Shepard saw, so did Liara, Ashley/Kaidan, etc...

He has never been "central against the Reapers". Hell, he couldn't even follow his own leads in ME1, and that was just against Saren.

Just because he "wants to take down the Reapers" doesn't all of a sudden make him important, or every person in the galaxy would be important.

Wrex is a leader now, and he didn't fight against the collectors. In M3, he won't be a permanent squadmate because precisely, he has other things to do. So, no, we couldn't find any credible reason, like Garrus except this detail.

Ashley/ Kaidan didn't have any reason to follow shepard in M2, so they didn't fight against the collector. They were cameos. In M3, They have reasons to be already here, like I said above. And anyways, they won't be all the time with shepard. They also have other things to do. We see that bioware seek at least to give some reasons why they are here.

Liara, I already gave the reasons, why she is there, she isn't robin too. That's why Bioware decided to make her the new shadow broker, it wasn't enough in the fight against the reapers.

I think you didn't get it. YES, Garrus isn't important in the fight against the reapers, except he is one of the best fighter in the galaxy as well <_<, BUT why he is on the normandy makes totally sense according to his path since M1, according to his personality, according to the confidentce put in him, the loyal turian in M1 and M2.

Like I said, Miranda didn't have to be a permanent squadmate, because, It would be weird to see her becoming the new Robin like him, that wouldn't make sense compared to Garrus. That's not what I expect from her in any case. I prefer to see her with her business, independent, etc.

What I hoped, was to see her playing a large/ big role in M3. But again, without any link with cerberus, it is very difficult. What could she do, alone and without resources ?  That's why hate she resigned so lightly in the end of M2. When she could have been subtly trying to win the loyalty of a part of Cerberus and turn them against TIM for example, or help humanity to win earth again. Bioware did a bad job with her resignation, I didn't find that very credible.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 février 2012 - 12:38 .

[MisterJB]

jtav wrote...

I do wonder if they might have been trying to limit her session time. She rarely has more than one line to speak at a time.

This is what concerns me the most. It could very well explain the scarcity of Miranda's characterization in ME3.
Back in ME2, there were many subjects Miranda could be approached on. Miranda's wish for humanity, her toughts on TIM and the Cerberus operations Shepard encounters in ME1, her past and everything that comes attached to it, her wish to achieve the impossible, her love for her sister, the gradual change of her feelings regarding Shepard, her insecurities.
And now, in ME3, not only does it seem that they chose to keep only the two characteristics that they figured the most amount of players would be endeared to but it also seems like they wanted Miranda's lines to be as concise as possible.
If the choice was between more characterization for Miranda in ME3 or keep Yvonne as her VA, I would have picked the first option.

Modifié par MisterJB, 17 février 2012 - 12:46 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

outmane wrote...

Like it or not Garrus is not central to the ME storyline. He is a sidekick to Shepard. Some might find that displeasing and find him useless. Others might find that it creates a bond between him and Shepard. What ever floats your boat.

Personally I find that Garrus is well done sidekick character. His charactre arc lets you bond with him and care for what happens with him and you can also feel he cares for Shepard.
Opposite to that is Miranda, the perfect plot related character. she is bonded not to Shepard but to the mission. So she's pretty great too in her way. My Sheps loves hating her and having to recognize she needs her at the same time.

The kind of characters I personaly dislike are those less well implemented versions of the 2 archetypes I mentionned. Like Tali as a 'bro character' never feels badass enough. Or Liara as a plot character is too much of a 'deus ex machina' with no ideals of her own (we have no idea what she is aiming for in the long run).

Wrex is a good example of a character that goes perfectly from 'bro' (he is there for Shepard) in ME1 to 'plot relevance' in ME2-3 (his goals for the Krogans are clear and you can base dicisions on them, not just on wanting to help him cause hes a bro)

I feel like my Shepard and Garrus are like best friends. not just 'bros'

[AgitatedLemon]

outmane wrote...

Personally I find that Garrus is well done sidekick character. His charactre arc lets you bond with him and care for what happens with him and you can also feel he cares for Shepard.
Opposite to that is Miranda, the perfect plot related character. she is bonded not to Shepard but to the mission. So she's pretty great too in her way. My Sheps loves hating her and having to recognize she needs her at the same time.

Miranda is in a different situation than Garrus. Since Garrus was established in ME1 (And isn't a romance then), he's set as one of Shepard's friends from the get-go. Miranda was introduced in ME2, and is a romance. Her importance to Shepard depends on her relationship with him. It can go from loyal XO to lover (In my case).

So I can argue that Miranda is the most important person to Shepard.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 17 février 2012 - 12:41 .

[outmane]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

outmane wrote...

Like it or not Garrus is not central to the ME storyline. He is a sidekick to Shepard. Some might find that displeasing and find him useless. Others might find that it creates a bond between him and Shepard. What ever floats your boat.

Personally I find that Garrus is well done sidekick character. His charactre arc lets you bond with him and care for what happens with him and you can also feel he cares for Shepard.
Opposite to that is Miranda, the perfect plot related character. she is bonded not to Shepard but to the mission. So she's pretty great too in her way. My Sheps loves hating her and having to recognize she needs her at the same time.

The kind of characters I personaly dislike are those less well implemented versions of the 2 archetypes I mentionned. Like Tali as a 'bro character' never feels badass enough. Or Liara as a plot character is too much of a 'deus ex machina' with no ideals of her own (we have no idea what she is aiming for in the long run).

Wrex is a good example of a character that goes perfectly from 'bro' (he is there for Shepard) in ME1 to 'plot relevance' in ME2-3 (his goals for the Krogans are clear and you can base dicisions on them, not just on wanting to help him cause hes a bro)

I feel like my Shepard and Garrus are like best friends. not just 'bros'

Sorry my english level doesnt let me differenciate between the 2. I hope you get the general idea none the less 

[jtav]

Me too, MisterJB. It's Miranda I fell for, not Strahovski, as good as she was. And it was the hard to like parts that made me love her. Most people love their sister. It was the idealism and ambition that made her unique.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

outmane wrote...

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

outmane wrote...

Like it or not Garrus is not central to the ME storyline. He is a sidekick to Shepard. Some might find that displeasing and find him useless. Others might find that it creates a bond between him and Shepard. What ever floats your boat.

Personally I find that Garrus is well done sidekick character. His charactre arc lets you bond with him and care for what happens with him and you can also feel he cares for Shepard.
Opposite to that is Miranda, the perfect plot related character. she is bonded not to Shepard but to the mission. So she's pretty great too in her way. My Sheps loves hating her and having to recognize she needs her at the same time.

The kind of characters I personaly dislike are those less well implemented versions of the 2 archetypes I mentionned. Like Tali as a 'bro character' never feels badass enough. Or Liara as a plot character is too much of a 'deus ex machina' with no ideals of her own (we have no idea what she is aiming for in the long run).

Wrex is a good example of a character that goes perfectly from 'bro' (he is there for Shepard) in ME1 to 'plot relevance' in ME2-3 (his goals for the Krogans are clear and you can base dicisions on them, not just on wanting to help him cause hes a bro)

I feel like my Shepard and Garrus are like best friends. not just 'bros'

Sorry my english level doesnt let me differenciate between the 2. I hope you get the general idea none the less 

no,no i wasnt scolding you i was just sating that. I feel my Shepard and Garrus are best friends on a personal level not just allies. im sorry

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

outmane wrote...

Personally I find that Garrus is well done sidekick character. His charactre arc lets you bond with him and care for what happens with him and you can also feel he cares for Shepard.
Opposite to that is Miranda, the perfect plot related character. she is bonded not to Shepard but to the mission. So she's pretty great too in her way. My Sheps loves hating her and having to recognize she needs her at the same time.

Miranda is in a different situation than Garrus. Since Garrus was established in ME1 (And isn't a romance then), he's set as one of Shepard's friends from the get-go. Miranda was introduced in ME2, and is a romance. Her importance to Shepard depends on her relationship with him. It can go from loyal XO to lover (In my case).

So I can argue that Miranda is the most important person to Shepard.

Technically Liara and all of the ME2 lis can be considered the most important to the individual Shepard. The VS gets a demotion in importance after Horizon and needs to start again in ME3.

[AgitatedLemon]

Sylvianus wrote...

Wrex is a leader now, and he didn't fight against the collectors. In M3, he won't be a permanent squadmate because precisely, he has other things to do. So, no, we couldn't find any credible reason, like Garrus except this detail.

Ashley/ Kaidan didn't have any reason to follow shepard in M2, so they didn't fight against the collector. They were cameos. In M3, They have reasons to be already here, like I said above. And anyways, they won't be all the time with shepard. They also have other things to do. We see that bioware seek at least to give some reasons why they are here.

Liara, I already gave the reasons, why she is there, she isn't robin too. That's why Bioware decided to make her the new shadow broker, it wasn't enough in the fight against the reapers.

I think you didn't get it. YES, Garrus isn't important in the fight against the reapers, except he is one of the best fighter in the galaxy as well <_<, BUT why he is on the normandy makes totally sense according to his path since M1, according to his personality, according to the confidentce put in him, the loyal turian in M1 and M2.

Like I said, Miranda didn't have to be a permanent squadmate, because, It would be weird to see her becoming the new Robin like him, that wouldn't make sense compared to Garrus. That's not what I expect from her in any case. I prefer to see her with her business, independent, etc.

What I hoped, was to see her playing a large/ big role in M3. But again, without any link with cerberus, it is very difficult. What could she do, alone and without resources ?  That's why hate she resigned so lightly in the end of M2. When she could have been subtly trying to win the loyalty of a part of Cerberus and turn them against TIM for example, or help humanity to win earth again. Bioware did a bad job with her resignation, I didn't find that very credible.

Wrex and the VS weren't in ME2 as squadmates because they could beoth die. I don't want the VS on my ME3 squad either for that same reason, plus the fiasco on Horizon.

And I don't know why you think squadmate = sidekick. She was Shepard's equal in ME2, she can do the same in ME3. She has more knowledge on Cerberus than anyone, including Liara, and excluding TIM. That alone should land her a more permanent presence. Instead, we get 2-3 conversations, 1 mission, and a romance continuation.

[gearseffect]

Td1984 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Tali can be justified by being tied to a trilogy-spanning plot thread. Garrus is just there because Ieldra and I are the only two people on the planet who hate his guts (sorry outmane)

I can't really stand him either. I'm really starting to hate him and Tali. I'd get them killed during the SM, but it might come back to bite me in the *** in ME3. Especially since if Tali is dead, I believe peace between the Quarians and Geth will be impossible.

Well F*ck me running Bioware found yet another way to force that damn Bucket-Head on my Team? Another stupid dumb reason for everyone to keep that THING alive. Becuase they are going to punish us if she is not alive now?

That is some major catering to Tali-Mancers going on. I thought Liara was BW favorite.
Miradna is a zombie,
Samara is like "hey Shepard that near kiss needs to be forgotten it never happened K. So Drop it K. Also I'm just gonna pop up for nothing more than to make my fans happy that I had a scene where it's just yeah I'm in here" In other words Samara is a Zombie.
Thane don't get me started.

Also whoever said that thing about baby sitting Kaidan, Kaidan gave me this weird vibe like he was gonna just grab my face and make out with my Shep, It was all very weird so he got left on Virmire.

Ashley BW really missed her up big time with her stupid new look. Besides she is a total B!tch and her Grandad has some rather big ties to Cerberus' getting started.

The Prothean is cool.
and Vega I'll give him the benifit of the doubt considering I hated Samara just becuase of how she looked and it didn't take long and she was one of my favorite characters.

I'm sick of Team Dextro and even Garrus is pushing his luck, same with Liara.

Anyway back to Chuck

I mean Miranda I'd rather let her die with dignaty in the SM than become a Husk in ME3.