82210 réponses à ce sujet

[outmane]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

outmane wrote...

Personally I find that Garrus is well done sidekick character. His charactre arc lets you bond with him and care for what happens with him and you can also feel he cares for Shepard.
Opposite to that is Miranda, the perfect plot related character. she is bonded not to Shepard but to the mission. So she's pretty great too in her way. My Sheps loves hating her and having to recognize she needs her at the same time.

Miranda is in a different situation than Garrus. Since Garrus was established in ME1 (And isn't a romance then), he's set as one of Shepard's friends from the get-go. Miranda was introduced in ME2, and is a romance. Her importance to Shepard depends on her relationship with him. It can go from loyal XO to lover (In my case).

So I can argue that Miranda is the most important person to Shepard.

Of course she can be. And also you could hate Garrus. I mean everything is possible as the player.

But its clear that Garrus was written to be a 'second shepard'. He ultimatly wants what Shepard wants. I find it well done and love having him around but i know others dont. 
Miranda is written to have a plot relevance. And she is so well written that she makes sense either as a rival (if you dont like her renegade persona or her goals) or as and close relationship (if you do like her persona and her goals).

And the game lets you roleplay a sensical rival relationship with Miranda. Wether you like Garrus or not, your Shepard will always tear up at the end of the recruitment mission. Even as a fan of Garrus that is something that always bothered me. 

Modifié par outmane, 17 février 2012 - 12:52 .

[AgitatedLemon]

outmane wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

outmane wrote...

Personally I find that Garrus is well done sidekick character. His charactre arc lets you bond with him and care for what happens with him and you can also feel he cares for Shepard.
Opposite to that is Miranda, the perfect plot related character. she is bonded not to Shepard but to the mission. So she's pretty great too in her way. My Sheps loves hating her and having to recognize she needs her at the same time.

Miranda is in a different situation than Garrus. Since Garrus was established in ME1 (And isn't a romance then), he's set as one of Shepard's friends from the get-go. Miranda was introduced in ME2, and is a romance. Her importance to Shepard depends on her relationship with him. It can go from loyal XO to lover (In my case).

So I can argue that Miranda is the most important person to Shepard.

Of course she can be. And also you could hate Garrus. I mean everything is possible as the player.

But its clear that Garrus was written to be a 'second shepard'. He ultimatly wants what Shepard wants. I find it well done and love having him around but i know others dont. 
Miranda is written to have a plot relevance. And she is so well written that she makes sense either as a rival (if you dont like her renage persona or her goals) or as and close relationship (if oyu do liek her persona and her goals).

And the game lets you roleplay a sensical rival relationship with Miranda. Wether you like Garrus or not, your Shepard will always tear up at the end of the recruitment mission. Even as a fan of Garrus that is something that always bothered me. 

I know. I was saying that the extent of Miranda's personal importance to Shepard is almost entirely dependant on her relationship with him. If she's loyal but not romanced, then she's little more than a co-worker with contacts and resources. If she's romanced, then it's much more personal for Shepard, because the two of them are in love.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 17 février 2012 - 12:58 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Wrex is a leader now, and he didn't fight against the collectors. In M3, he won't be a permanent squadmate because precisely, he has other things to do. So, no, we couldn't find any credible reason, like Garrus except this detail.

Ashley/ Kaidan didn't have any reason to follow shepard in M2, so they didn't fight against the collector. They were cameos. In M3, They have reasons to be already here, like I said above. And anyways, they won't be all the time with shepard. They also have other things to do. We see that bioware seek at least to give some reasons why they are here.

Liara, I already gave the reasons, why she is there, she isn't robin too. That's why Bioware decided to make her the new shadow broker, it wasn't enough in the fight against the reapers.

I think you didn't get it. YES, Garrus isn't important in the fight against the reapers, except he is one of the best fighter in the galaxy as well <_<, BUT why he is on the normandy makes totally sense according to his path since M1, according to his personality, according to the confidentce put in him, the loyal turian in M1 and M2.

Like I said, Miranda didn't have to be a permanent squadmate, because, It would be weird to see her becoming the new Robin like him, that wouldn't make sense compared to Garrus. That's not what I expect from her in any case. I prefer to see her with her business, independent, etc.

What I hoped, was to see her playing a large/ big role in M3. But again, without any link with cerberus, it is very difficult. What could she do, alone and without resources ?  That's why hate she resigned so lightly in the end of M2. When she could have been subtly trying to win the loyalty of a part of Cerberus and turn them against TIM for example, or help humanity to win earth again. Bioware did a bad job with her resignation, I didn't find that very credible.

Wrex and the VS weren't in ME2 as squadmates because they could beoth die. I don't want the VS on my ME3 squad either for that same reason, plus the fiasco on Horizon.

And I don't know why you think squadmate = sidekick. She was Shepard's equal in ME2, she can do the same in ME3. She has more knowledge on Cerberus than anyone, including Liara, and excluding TIM. That alone should land her a more permanent presence. Instead, we get 2-3 conversations, 1 mission, and a romance continuation.

if the romance is good and Miranda is still Miranda then i will be happy. but i do hope there is more than that

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

outmane wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

outmane wrote...

Personally I find that Garrus is well done sidekick character. His charactre arc lets you bond with him and care for what happens with him and you can also feel he cares for Shepard.
Opposite to that is Miranda, the perfect plot related character. she is bonded not to Shepard but to the mission. So she's pretty great too in her way. My Sheps loves hating her and having to recognize she needs her at the same time.

Miranda is in a different situation than Garrus. Since Garrus was established in ME1 (And isn't a romance then), he's set as one of Shepard's friends from the get-go. Miranda was introduced in ME2, and is a romance. Her importance to Shepard depends on her relationship with him. It can go from loyal XO to lover (In my case).

So I can argue that Miranda is the most important person to Shepard.

Of course she can be. And also you could hate Garrus. I mean everything is possible as the player.

But its clear that Garrus was written to be a 'second shepard'. He ultimatly wants what Shepard wants. I find it well done and love having him around but i know others dont. 
Miranda is written to have a plot relevance. And she is so well written that she makes sense either as a rival (if you dont like her renage persona or her goals) or as and close relationship (if oyu do liek her persona and her goals).

And the game lets you roleplay a sensical rival relationship with Miranda. Wether you like Garrus or not, your Shepard will always tear up at the end of the recruitment mission. Even as a fan of Garrus that is something that always bothered me. 

I know. I was saying that the extent of Miranda's personal importance to Shepard is almost entirely dependant on her relationship with him. If she's loyal but not romanced, then she's little more than a co-worker with contacts and resources. If she's romanced, then it's much more personal.

so does miranda say/do more if she is romanced?

[AgitatedLemon]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

so does miranda say/do more if she is romanced?

I have no idea, but I would imagine she has a few extra "romantic" lines in her conversations.

[Sylvianus]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
And I don't know why you think squadmate = sidekick. She was Shepard's equal in ME2, she can do the same in ME3. She has more knowledge on Cerberus than anyone, including Liara, and excluding TIM. That alone should land her a more permanent presence. Instead, we get 2-3 conversations, 1 mission, and a romance continuation.

No, the shadowbroker has more knowledge on cerberus, Miranda is useless. She is unable to tell me who sleeps with TIM, how many cigarettes he smokes. The shadowbroker knows many things about Miranda Herself.

She may have useful information, but I doubt she has really critical information against TIM.

Liara is the new shadowbroker, So she has the human resources (spies) that had the previous shadowbroker who learned many things about Cerberus thanks to them. ( and other resources as well )

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 février 2012 - 01:01 .

[outmane]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

outmane wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

outmane wrote...

Personally I find that Garrus is well done sidekick character. His charactre arc lets you bond with him and care for what happens with him and you can also feel he cares for Shepard.
Opposite to that is Miranda, the perfect plot related character. she is bonded not to Shepard but to the mission. So she's pretty great too in her way. My Sheps loves hating her and having to recognize she needs her at the same time.

Miranda is in a different situation than Garrus. Since Garrus was established in ME1 (And isn't a romance then), he's set as one of Shepard's friends from the get-go. Miranda was introduced in ME2, and is a romance. Her importance to Shepard depends on her relationship with him. It can go from loyal XO to lover (In my case).

So I can argue that Miranda is the most important person to Shepard.

Of course she can be. And also you could hate Garrus. I mean everything is possible as the player.

But its clear that Garrus was written to be a 'second shepard'. He ultimatly wants what Shepard wants. I find it well done and love having him around but i know others dont. 
Miranda is written to have a plot relevance. And she is so well written that she makes sense either as a rival (if you dont like her renage persona or her goals) or as and close relationship (if oyu do liek her persona and her goals).

And the game lets you roleplay a sensical rival relationship with Miranda. Wether you like Garrus or not, your Shepard will always tear up at the end of the recruitment mission. Even as a fan of Garrus that is something that always bothered me. 

I know. I was saying that the extent of Miranda's personal importance to Shepard is almost entirely dependant on her relationship with him. If she's loyal but not romanced, then she's little more than a co-worker with contacts and resources. If she's romanced, then it's much more personal.

You dont feel like Miranda's plot role has an influence on the way Shepard appreciate her? To me that has a big impact on their relationship. Cause even if I dislike her, I still need her. Whereas a character like Garrus, if I dont like him... then I dont need him. Its totally and simply personal.

Maybe that makes it more clear the diffrence i see between the 2 types of character.

[AgitatedLemon]

Sylvianus wrote...

No, the shadowbroker has more knowledge on cerberus, Miranda is useless. She is unable to tell me who sleeps with TIM, how many cigarettes he smokes. The shadowbroker knows many things about Miranda Herself.

She may have useful information, but I doubt she has really critical information against TIM.

Liara is the new shadowroker, So she has the human resources (spies) that had the previous shadowbroker who learned many things thanks to them.

Liara has been the Shadow Broker for less than 6 months. No one knows how much she knows of anything.

And there's nothing to imply that the Shadow Broker knows more about Cerberus than anyone. His having a dossier on them means nothing, since it's filled with obvious information you can read from the codex and ask Miranda about.

And I never once said she has insider info on TIM. Not even the Shadow Broker had any private information on him.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 17 février 2012 - 01:05 .

[AgitatedLemon]

outmane wrote...

You dont feel like Miranda's plot role has an influence on the way Shepard appreciate her? To me that has a big impact on their relationship. Cause even if I dislike her, I still need her. Whereas a character like Garrus, if I dont like him... then I dont need him. Its totally and simply personal.

Maybe that makes it more clear the diffrence i see between the 2 types of character.

I never said that at all. The extent of Shepard's respect for Miranda depends on her relationship with him. The EXTENT. She's important to him regardless, she's just more important if Shepard and her are together.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 17 février 2012 - 01:08 .

[CuseGirl]

jtav wrote...

It's not so much Garrus being in it--I could fix that if I wanted to--as "What the hell have they done to my favorite character?" I feel like I have to romance Liara now.

That's exactly how I feel. After Miranda, Grunt, and Samara, she's my next fav. But because Samara isn't romanceable, Liara is my LI in only one save. Now I gotta cook up a little Liara because I know what's in store for like 5 of my Miranda-LI saves.

Modifié par CuseGirl, 17 février 2012 - 01:17 .

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

No, the shadowbroker has more knowledge on cerberus, Miranda is useless. She is unable to tell me who sleeps with TIM, how many cigarettes he smokes. The shadowbroker knows many things about Miranda Herself.

She may have useful information, but I doubt she has really critical information against TIM.

Liara is the new shadowroker, So she has the human resources (spies) that had the previous shadowbroker who learned many things thanks to them.

Liara has been the Shadow Broker for less than 6 months. No one knows how much she knows of anything.

And there's nothing to imply that the Shadow Broker knows more about Cerberus than anyone. His having a dossier on them means nothing, since it's filled with obvious information you can read from the codex and ask Miranda about.

And I never once said she has insider info on TIM. Not even the Shadow Broker had any private information on him.

The implication is that the Shadow Broker operates like a government intelligence body, so she's supposed to know everything about everything. That being said, its a real reason why Liara shouldn't have a spot reserved on the ship, and knowing BW there wont be a way to opt out.

[Sylvianus]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

No, the shadowbroker has more knowledge on cerberus, Miranda is useless. She is unable to tell me who sleeps with TIM, how many cigarettes he smokes. The shadowbroker knows many things about Miranda Herself.

She may have useful information, but I doubt she has really critical information against TIM.

Liara is the new shadowroker, So she has the human resources (spies) that had the previous shadowbroker who learned many things thanks to them.

Liara has been the Shadow Broker for less than 6 months. No one knows how much she knows of anything.

And there's nothing to imply that the Shadow Broker knows more about Cerberus than anyone. His having a dossier on them means nothing, since it's filled with obvious information you can read from the codex.

And I never once said she has insider info on TIM. Not even the Shadow Broker had any private information on him.

The most important thing IS that she has the human resources to know more about Cerberus in M3, than Miranda who left cerberus and doesn't know anymore what's going on in this organisation after 6 months.

And yes, in the game, there's evidence, the shadow broker knows pretty much many things about Cerberus, the dossiers are just another proof. it begins first with M1, thanks to him, Admiral Haku found who killed his team,  and which is Cerberus and gave base's localisation. The shadowbroker gave him critical informations. Without the Shadowbroker, nobody would know which is Cerberus. Also there's Wilson, another guy who worked for him. Another proof.  The shadow broker implies that he is very interested by Cerberus and confident to destroy it. 

And nobody knows who is TIM since 2157. How the hell could he know who is this guy ?

Liara has won his spies since they still believe they respond to the shadowbroker's orders.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 février 2012 - 01:15 .

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

No, the shadowbroker has more knowledge on cerberus, Miranda is useless. She is unable to tell me who sleeps with TIM, how many cigarettes he smokes. The shadowbroker knows many things about Miranda Herself.

She may have useful information, but I doubt she has really critical information against TIM.

Liara is the new shadowroker, So she has the human resources (spies) that had the previous shadowbroker who learned many things thanks to them.

Liara has been the Shadow Broker for less than 6 months. No one knows how much she knows of anything.

And there's nothing to imply that the Shadow Broker knows more about Cerberus than anyone. His having a dossier on them means nothing, since it's filled with obvious information you can read from the codex and ask Miranda about.

And I never once said she has insider info on TIM. Not even the Shadow Broker had any private information on him.

The implication is that the Shadow Broker operates like a government intelligence body, so she's supposed to know everything about everything. That being said, its a real reason why Liara shouldn't have a spot reserved on the ship, and knowing BW there wont be a way to opt out.

Probably not, in regrds to the opt-out.

Knowing how powerful the Shadow Broker is supposed to be, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a rotating list of passwords between himself and his highest level operatives. If an idiot like Hock can do the same thing, then the SB should have. I'm saying that Liara can be as powerful as she wants, it's useless to her if she doesn't know how to wield it (Like the password thing earlier).

[AgitatedLemon]

Sylvianus wrote...

The most important thing IS that she has the human resources to know more about Cerberus in M3, than Miranda who left cerberus and doesn't know anymore what's going on in this organisation after 6 months.

And yes, in the game, there's evidence, the shadow broker know pretty much many things about Cerberus, the dossiers are just another proof. iI begins first with M1, thanks to him, Admiral Haku found who killed his team and which is Cerberus. He gave critical informations. Without him, nobody would still know which is Cerberus. Also there's Wilson, another guy who worked for him. Another proof.  The shadow broker implies that he is very interested by Cerberus and confident to destroy it. 

And nobody knows who is TIM since 2157. How the hell could he know who is this guy ?



Liara has won his spies since they still believe they respond to the shadowbroker's orders.

If Wilson is your strongest counter point, then don't bother talking to me. That point is as strong as tissue paper. No one knows how long he's been in the Broker's employ. AFAWK, he was just recently hired. Since when has the Broker ever said he wanted to destroy Cerberus? I might have missed that.

None of your other points imply that he had insiders in Cerberus, only that he did basic detective work.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 17 février 2012 - 01:17 .

[CuseGirl]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
Wrex and the VS weren't in ME2 as squadmates because they could beoth die. I don't want the VS on my ME3 squad either for that same reason, plus the fiasco on Horizon.

And I don't know why you think squadmate = sidekick. She was Shepard's equal in ME2, she can do the same in ME3. She has more knowledge on Cerberus than anyone, including Liara, and excluding TIM. That alone should land her a more permanent presence. Instead, we get 2-3 conversations, 1 mission, and a romance continuation.

To the bolded part: Thank you. I'm so annoyed hearing from so many people on here that "Well, Miranda shouldn't be tied to Shepard, that kills her character". How about she finally trusts someone with her life and is willing to fight side by side with them? That's what I thought was going to happen with this game. I thought I was going to get arrested, get put back on the Normandy, walk in with Miranda and see the VS and some other Alliance noobs and have to step in and be like "look, I know we have a hodge podge crew right now, but we gotta put our sh!te together and win this war". Instead, we find out like a year in advance "you must have Garrus and Tali ON your ship, but not the person who has the most knowledge of TiM and Cerberus and is willing to follow you into hell itself".

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

No, the shadowbroker has more knowledge on cerberus, Miranda is useless. She is unable to tell me who sleeps with TIM, how many cigarettes he smokes. The shadowbroker knows many things about Miranda Herself.

She may have useful information, but I doubt she has really critical information against TIM.

Liara is the new shadowroker, So she has the human resources (spies) that had the previous shadowbroker who learned many things thanks to them.

Liara has been the Shadow Broker for less than 6 months. No one knows how much she knows of anything.

And there's nothing to imply that the Shadow Broker knows more about Cerberus than anyone. His having a dossier on them means nothing, since it's filled with obvious information you can read from the codex and ask Miranda about.

And I never once said she has insider info on TIM. Not even the Shadow Broker had any private information on him.

The implication is that the Shadow Broker operates like a government intelligence body, so she's supposed to know everything about everything. That being said, its a real reason why Liara shouldn't have a spot reserved on the ship, and knowing BW there wont be a way to opt out.

Probably not, in regrds to the opt-out.

Knowing how powerful the Shadow Broker is supposed to be, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a rotating list of passwords between himself and his highest level operatives. If an idiot like Hock can do the same thing, then the SB should have. I'm saying that Liara can be as powerful as she wants, it's useless to her if she doesn't know how to wield it (Like the password thing earlier).

Anyone with that many resources would figure out some way of being useful with a private army and spy network at their disposal. Considering that the Shadow Broker is a genius, well educated archeologist, I imagine she could figure it out very easily. It's simple, tow different organizations (The Alliance Military and the SB army) would be much more effective than having its leader in the line of fire sticking with one team.

The fact that BW wrote that in but wanted to cater to fans show that the consideration for content isn't present, so the whole SB story arc is washed away since it was made irrelevant. If they wanted to redeem themselves with this story arc, there should be an option to tell Liara to go, take her SB resources, feed us information and use the army to attack the problems in tandem.

Modifié par android654, 17 février 2012 - 01:19 .

[AgitatedLemon]

android654 wrote...

Anyone with that many resources would figure out some way of being useful with a private army and spy network at their disposal. Considering that the Shadow Broker is a genius, well educated archeologist, I imagine she could figure it out very easily. It's simple, tow different organizations (The Alliance Military and the SB army) would be much more effective than having its leader in the line of fire sticking with one team.

The fact that BW wrote that in but wanted to cater to fans show that the consideration for content isn't present, so the whole SB story arc is washed away since it was made irrelevant.

If there's 1 lesson to be learned from Liara and ME3, it's "don't place the buildup of major plot devices in DLC".

I agree with you about Liara being on the squad. I was speaking in hypotheticals in my last post, too. I was saying that if Liara doesn't know how to operate the Broker's systems, then she's useless as the Broker. 

@your edit: I'd take Liara and the Broker's private army as a potential war asset over her squad status any day.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 17 février 2012 - 01:23 .

[Sylvianus]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

The most important thing IS that she has the human resources to know more about Cerberus in M3, than Miranda who left cerberus and doesn't know anymore what's going on in this organisation after 6 months.

And yes, in the game, there's evidence, the shadow broker know pretty much many things about Cerberus, the dossiers are just another proof. iI begins first with M1, thanks to him, Admiral Haku found who killed his team and which is Cerberus. He gave critical informations. Without him, nobody would still know which is Cerberus. Also there's Wilson, another guy who worked for him. Another proof.  The shadow broker implies that he is very interested by Cerberus and confident to destroy it. 

And nobody knows who is TIM since 2157. How the hell could he know who is this guy ?



Liara has won his spies since they still believe they respond to the shadowbroker's orders.

If Wilson is your strongest counter point, then don't bother talking to me. That point is as strong as tissue paper. No one knows how long he's been in the Broker's employ. AFAWK, he was just recently hired. Since when has the Broker ever said he wanted to destroy Cerberus? I might have missed that.

None of your other points imply that he had insiders in Cerberus, only that he did basic detective work.

Wha ?

The point isn't at all how long he's been in the broker's employ. I don't even know why you felt the need to point out that lol. The point is the shadow broker has spies, or managed to hire in cerberus for more informations.  Wilson was one of them, Miranda Killed him. End of line, she was convinced  he was a traitor.
The broker says that the wanted to destroy Cerberus, if you pick with you Miranda in Lotsb.

My points are already better than yours, saying simply that Miranda knows more than anyone.

And my point in general is that the shadow broker knows more than Miranda.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 février 2012 - 01:28 .

[android654]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

Anyone with that many resources would figure out some way of being useful with a private army and spy network at their disposal. Considering that the Shadow Broker is a genius, well educated archeologist, I imagine she could figure it out very easily. It's simple, tow different organizations (The Alliance Military and the SB army) would be much more effective than having its leader in the line of fire sticking with one team.

The fact that BW wrote that in but wanted to cater to fans show that the consideration for content isn't present, so the whole SB story arc is washed away since it was made irrelevant.

If there's 1 lesson to be learned from Liara and ME3, it's "don't place the buildup of major plot devices in DLC".

I agree with you about Liara being on the squad. I was speaking in hypotheticals in my last post, too.

@your edit: I'd take Liara and the Broker's private army as a potential war asset over her squad status any day.

Good point, which makes me wonder if they forgot about Kasumi's "important role" concerning the Alliance and the way the other races will see them when seeking support.

A second army is much more useful than any 1 character.

[AgitatedLemon]

Sylvianus wrote...

Wha ?

The point isn't at all how long he's been in the broker's employ. I don't even know whar you felt the need to point out that lol. The point is the shadow broker has spies in cerberus.  Wilson was one of them, Miranda Killed him. End of line, she was convinced  he was a traitor.

The broker says that the wanted to destroy Cerberus, if you pick with you Miranda in Lotsb.

My points are already better than yours, saying simply that Miranda knows more than anyone.

And my point is that the shadow broker knows more than Miranda.

He never says he wants to destroy Cerberus. He says that Shepard and Miranda's deaths will cripple them. All he did there was state the obvious.

She was convinced he was a triator becasue he WAS a traitor. Even if he wasn't working for the Broker, it wouldn't matter.

We don't know how much the Broker knows about Cerberus, not that it matters now considering he's dead.

We don't know how many agents the Broker has in Cerberus. It's implied Wilson was the only one, since the Broker says in one of the dossiers "With agent Wilson dead, gaining new information will be difficult". Something along those lines.

Your points are not better than mine, seeing as how you've yet to provide an adequate counter to any of my points.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 17 février 2012 - 01:34 .

[Sylvianus]

We don't know how much Miranda knows about Cerberus. Not that it matters now, she left Cerberus and after 6 months she doesn't know what the hell is going on in this organization.

We don't know how useful Miranda could be ? she was just the head of the lazare project. We don't know how close she was with TIM to know critical informations.

etc etc. See how easy is it ?

And for Wilson, you didn't read the comic redemption ? After the shadowbroker lost shepard, in the hand of cerberus, he said he had a spie among them and he wanted to let them to try what they wanted to do with shepard'sbody. Obviously if you use your brain, you know he is talking about wilson.

Unless your are that blind to evidences to admit there are some things interesting that don't go necessarily in your sense.

Let us end this debate, useless, and uninteresting.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 février 2012 - 01:45 .

[Volandrius]

Sylvianus wrote...

we don't know how much Miranda knows about Cerberus. Not that it matters now, she left Cerberus and after 6 monts she doesn't know what the hell is going on in this organization.

We don't know how useful Miranda could be ? she was just the head of the lazare project. We don't know how close she was with TIM to know critical informations.

etc etc. Know how it easy ?

And for Wilson, you didn't read the comic redemption ? fter the shadowbroker lost shepard, in the hand of cerberus, he said he had a spie among them and he wanted to let them to try what they wanted to do with shepard'sbody. Obviously if you use your brain, you know he is talking about wilson.

Unless your are that blind to evidence to admit there are some things interesting that don't go necessarily in your sense.

Let us end this debate, useless, and uninteresting.

I hope you realize that Miranda knows a LOT about cerberus. She was basically TIM's right hand man (woman?), did you not watch the first cutscene in ME2? Delving deeper into the story it goes to say TIM' barely trusted anyone to see him in person and the fact Miranda was shown with him in the first cutscene in ME2 it means she knows damn well what goes on in Cerberus. 

Modifié par Volandrius, 17 février 2012 - 01:45 .

[Labrev]

...I just came here to get a closer look at that Yvonne avy. =P

[AgitatedLemon]

Sylvianus wrote...

We don't know how much Miranda knows about Cerberus. Not that it matters now, she left Cerberus and after 6 months she doesn't know what the hell is going on in this organization.

We don't know how useful Miranda could be ? she was just the head of the lazare project. We don't know how close she was with TIM to know critical informations.

etc etc. See how easy is it ?

And for Wilson, you didn't read the comic redemption ? After the shadowbroker lost shepard, in the hand of cerberus, he said he had a spie among them and he wanted to let them to try what they wanted to do with shepard'sbody. Obviously if you use your brain, you know he is talking about wilson.

Unless your are that blind to evidences to admit there are some things interesting that don't go necessarily in your sense.

Let us end this debate, useless, and uninteresting.

Redemption is referring to Feron. He was doubling for the Broker while working with Cerberus and Liara.

Did you really just say that we don't know how useful Miranda could be? She was TIM'S 2IC. That alone proves how dense you are.

[Td1984]

jtav wrote...

Me too, MisterJB. It's Miranda I fell for, not Strahovski, as good as she was. And it was the hard to like parts that made me love her. Most people love their sister. It was the idealism and ambition that made her unique.

Thing is, if they replaced Yvonne in order to give Miranda a larger part in ME3, they would've either had some serious explaining to do as to why her model and VA were no longer the same person, or do some retconning to deal with the change in both her appearance and loss of her Aussie accent.