82210 réponses à ce sujet

[UserForFun]

Your constant trolling puts the topic at shame, and makes Miranda cry ( I have no idea, in the suicide mission, when she felt after the Terminator Reaper is kaboom, her facial-animation changes to crying.. Perhaps she was that injured? Doubtful, but still. )

Also, regarding Miranda's father, we only have Miranda's side over what kind of man he is, + Miranda left him when she was little, perhaps her perception/preconceptions and assumptions may not had been entirely accurate.
 

Modifié par UserForFun, 21 février 2012 - 08:48 .

[MisterJB]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

@husky husk
That's what JB said. We enjoying talking to people not sure if you remember but it's called Bioware SOCIAL network.

True. However, this is also a discussion forum. Page after page after page of one line posts not to mention Off-topic chats about technical support, endless gushing and God knows what else undermines the efforts of certain regulars who have tried for years to turn the Miranda fanbase into a respecteful one, capable of debating intelligent topics, rather than just a bunch of teenagers drooling over "DAT ASS".
Take those conversations into each others profile pages, please.

Modifié par MisterJB, 21 février 2012 - 08:53 .

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
Sadly, according to the leaked script, Miranda's family name really is Lawson.
Bioware seems to think we are not intelligent enough to understand the need for a pseudonym in her line of work. Not to mention the fact that she is hiding.

I always suspected it would turn out that way. Unlike other jarring elements in Mirnada's presentation, the name contributes nothing and it would have been little effort to make "Lawson" be a cover name, so I think you're right and Bioware subscribed to the "players are morons" trope. Fanfics have done much better....

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 février 2012 - 10:03 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

@MisterJB
You know I don't think of Miranda like that.
But how many pages are we going to have to see you guys conplaining about the same stuff yeah it gets annoying believe or not. I don't mean to be so rude. So I apologize

[Awoken Eyes]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

yeah it gets annoying

No, they're keeping a discussion going. YOU think it's annoying, big difference.

Modifié par Awoken Eyes, 21 février 2012 - 09:32 .

[Melra]

Somebody got their panties into a bunch, it seems.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

@Awoken Eyes
Shut up **** you're not even part of this discussion. And yes it annoying. Complaining about the same thing is annoying

[Awoken Eyes]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

@Awoken Eyes
Shut up **** you're not even part of this discussion.

Did I hit a nerv? And, I love myself aswell. Cheers!

[Melra]

Awoken Eyes wrote...

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

@Awoken Eyes
Shut up **** you're not even part of this discussion.

Did I hit a nerv? And, I love myself aswell. Cheers!

You fail to be as awesome as I am, begone thee worthless little thingiedongie.

[Ieldra]

[quote]schemata wrote...
 *awesome fanfic and dialogue snipped*[/quote]
[/quote]
That was very good! Your Mr.Lawson is a true Renegade of the kind I can appreciate. He's sacrificing his daughter's happiness as well as his own for what he thinks must be done. You can debate whether it's worth it, whether all he hopes Miranda can accomplish wouldn't also be possible without suppressing any emotional connection between them, but you can't dismiss him as a cheap villain.

Unfortunately, I expect ME3's version to be cheesier and more one-sided. This is, after all, the man who - *spoiler follows, highlight to read* - sacrifices humans to the Reapers on TIM's orders to get Oriana back.

[JosephDucreux]

Ieldra2 wrote...
That was very good! Your Mr.Lawson is a true Renegade of the kind I can appreciate. He's sacrificing his daughter's happiness as well as his own for what he thinks must be done. You can debate whether it's worth it, whether all he hopes Miranda can accomplish wouldn't also be possible without suppressing any emotional connection between them, but you can't dismiss him as a cheap villain.

Unfortunately, I expect ME3's version to be cheesier and more one-sided. This is, after all, the man who - *spoiler snip*

Now I'm left wondering who's the real retard here, the gamers or the developers and writers for thinking that gamers are stupid.

Owait, Mac Walters is the lead writer. Alrighty then, the devs and writers are all grade A retards. It's confirmed.

Modifié par JosephDucreux, 21 février 2012 - 10:07 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

@Awoken Eyes
Whatever makes you feel better

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

@Joseph
Why do u dislike Mac Walters?

[Ieldra]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...
@MisterJB
You know I don't think of Miranda like that.
But how many pages are we going to have to see you guys conplaining about the same stuff yeah it gets annoying believe or not. I don't mean to be so rude. So I apologize

The problem is that the leaked script is evidence. Not the final word, particularly not in Miranda's case where we know things are missing, but evidence. Any reasonable debate about Miranda's presence cannot afford to ignore that evidence. If the picture painted by it is bleak, that must be taken into account. If the only good part in evidence is some romance content and her death scene (@all: in case you didn't know, her death is avoidable), we must consider the possibility that these may be the only good parts in the final release as well.

Basically any hope of Miranda having a large role in ME3 rests on the belief that Bioware wouldn't squander her potential so completely *in spite of the evidence of the leaked script*. That's a tenuous line to hold on to, don't you think? 

Also there are writers' visions to consider. Of course we can't look into the writers' minds, but the comparably big effort spent on the death scenario suggests that at some time, they intended some sort of redemption story for Miranda where she unavoidably dies in the end. While that appears to be off the table it may serve as an explanation why Miranda appears so unimportant to the plot.

On the other hand, we know there are scenes with Miranda that needed Mac Walters' personal attention. So it *may* be they have something big in mind for her that hadn't made it into the leaked script. In fact, I'm putting my hope on that. But that's all it is...hope.

@Joseph:
Actually, I appreciate Mac Walters quite a bit after it was revealed he apparently wanted to paint TIM more grey but was overruled. ME:Evolution gives a good hint of what that might have resulted in. The excerpt of the Cerberus Manifesto is something I could subscribe to, with the exception of one phrase. I don't think he was involved in developing Miranda's father. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 février 2012 - 10:35 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

@ieldra2
Thanks for the explanation. But how does Miranda go for being the most important ME2 squadmate to a small cameo. I just think it would be silly they did that. Im hoping for more but I'm happy the romance is good

[Ieldra]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...
@ieldra2
Thanks for the explanation. But how does Miranda go for being the most important ME2 squadmate to a small cameo. I just think it would be silly they did that. Im hoping for more but I'm happy the romance is good

To be clear about this: it is not the quantity of content we are concerned about. Miranda's presence will not be limited to a small cameo. It's the quality. Her motivation to work for humanity's advancement appears to be absent in favor of personal concerns, so that any plot contribution appears accidental. There is no closure to Miranda's Cerberus connection in evidence, no reflection on her time with them and no explanation why she left in case you kept the Collector base, which, should it turn out to be the same in the final game, would be an inexcusable omission on Bioware's part given that Cerberus, the organization she's been working for 20 years, is one of the main antagonists in ME3.

The question is: Will Miranda turn from the woman who is driven to achieve the impossible (Lazarus), believed in some ideal of human advancement *and* loved her sister to a woman who cares nothing about the first two anymore? While the love for her sister made her more sympathetic, the first two aspects made her extraordinary. Without them, she wouldn't be worth considering above anyone else, she wouldn't be a woman to admire rather than simply to like, and she definitely wouldn't be an equal to Shepard any more. 

Yes, it would be silly for Bioware to do that, to not use Miranda's plot potential. Which is why I believe there will be *something*. But while the late-game content is mostly missing, the early parts appear to be mostly present in the script, and they don't cast a good light on Miranda's motivations. 

We'll all see in two weeks. Realistically, I don't believe in a worst-case scenario. Will what we get be enough? No idea.

[JosephDucreux]

@Ieldra

Wha...Mac Walters wanted to make TIM ambiguous? Hmph, might have to reconsider my stance on him then...but then again, he purposely wrote the story of ME3 to exclude ME2 characters. Or maybe that's just Casey Hudson dicking around and screwing everything up again, I dunno.

Who was Miranda's writer in ME2 besides Weekes?

[ThomGau]

Thank you for these good explanations Ieldra.

I don't believe in a most case scenario either. Although I think at some point, they decided to make her more likeable, to soften her up a little and to some extent, this is what the leak appears to be. They were somehow surprised to see that our expectations about her role and personality in ME3 were quite different. If I wanted an all-tender character, I would have probably prefered Tali and I'm far from being a fan of her (but I don't hate her either).
I want her to be pretty much the same as she was in ME2 with, of course, some character development, especially regarding her ideals about Human Advancement. However, I know her family issues seems to be a redundant plot-hook but they need to be delt with.

Modifié par ThomGau, 21 février 2012 - 12:03 .

[Ieldra]

JosephDucreux wrote...
@Ieldra

Wha...Mac Walters wanted to make TIM ambiguous? Hmph, might have to reconsider my stance on him then...but then again, he purposely wrote the story of ME3 to exclude ME2 characters. Or maybe that's just Casey Hudson dicking around and screwing everything up again, I dunno.

Who was Miranda's writer in ME2 besides Weekes?

Mac Walters wrote her on the "critical path", which means most of her dialogue on main plot missions. No idea if he was also responsible for the infamous "betrayal" line.

I think the decision which characters to put into the team was a project-level decision not made by any one person, though Casey Hudson's opinion would've had a major impact. There would've been several factors going into it. Unfortunately, Miranda has several problematic aspects in that regard: she's hard to integrate in an Alliance-centered team from a narrative perspective, she can be dead, she is reasonably popular but more controversial than Tali and Garrus, she would be yet another human on an already human-centred team. Possibly she also didn't have quite the internal lobby Tali and Garrus had. Having said that, I'd really like to know which factor contributed most to Miranda's sidelining in particular.

[ThomGau]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mac Walters wrote her on the "critical path", which means most of her dialogue on main plot missions. No idea if he was also responsible for the infamous "betrayal" line.

I think the decision which characters to put into the team was a project-level decision not made by any one person, though Casey Hudson's opinion would've had a major impact. There would've been several factors going into it. Unfortunately, Miranda has several problematic aspects in that regard: she's hard to integrate in an Alliance-centered team from a narrative perspective, she can be dead, she is reasonably popular but more controversial than Tali and Garrus, she would be yet another human on an already human-centred team. Possibly she also didn't have quite the internal lobby Tali and Garrus had. Having said that, I'd really like to know which factor contributed most to Miranda's sidelining in particular.

@Bold : This.

We already know that the ME2 cast has been sidelined.
If this sidelining appears to be really bad and unfulfiling, I'd like BW to have the decency to explicitly tell us the reasons why they did this. As you said, especially about Miranda who, among the whole ME squad, holds the most potential.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mac Walters wrote her on the "critical path", which means most of her dialogue on main plot missions. No idea if he was also responsible for the infamous "betrayal" line.

I think the decision which characters to put into the team was a project-level decision not made by any one person, though Casey Hudson's opinion would've had a major impact. There would've been several factors going into it. Unfortunately, Miranda has several problematic aspects in that regard: she's hard to integrate in an Alliance-centered team from a narrative perspective, she can be dead, she is reasonably popular but more controversial than Tali and Garrus, she would be yet another human on an already human-centred team. Possibly she also didn't have quite the internal lobby Tali and Garrus had. Having said that, I'd really like to know which factor contributed most to Miranda's sidelining in particular.

I'm not bothered about knowing the why. Once the horse has bolted out of the stable door its rather pointless imo.Now i'm just dreading the extent of the butchering her character has received from the sidelining. I even have qualms about romance content to be honest.

[Melra]

This is delicious, people after two years still moping over the same line. Omnomnomnom.

[jtav]

I'd love it if Mr. Lawson were grayer. Not to excuse what he's done but because it makes him more frightening. Mustache-twirling N*zis are easy. But a man who you might actually find yourself agreeing with is scarier. What I did for Robert in Portrait was take Miranda's personality and twist it. He's sterile, so he decided to build a family. But he's very conscious of his duty to humanity. His daughter will be the savior of the human race. Everything he does goes toward that goal. He even loves Miranda, his brilliant darling girl. But he absolutely can't show it. I deliberately made him closed off in the same way Miranda is. But he has no idea when to stop. Locking your disabled kids in a nursing home so you don't have to bother with them is fine. So's crippling Miranda and nearly killing her. He scares me because he's what Miranda would be without compassion. The Mr. Lawson of the leak is too vile to be frightening.

[Melra]

Oh this is funneh.

Critical Mission Failure

Haven't heard some of the dialogue choices myself though.

[Dr. Doctor]

jtav wrote...
He scares me because he's what Miranda would be without compassion. The Mr. Lawson of the leak is too vile to be frightening.

What worries me is having a repeat of Magister Denarius from DA2. Hype him up as being this impressive villain, only to give him two dimensional characterization and a pathetic boss battle.