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"I'll always want you in my life." Miranda Lawson in Mass Effect 3


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#38051
Dr. Doctor

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jtav wrote...

Yeah, Shep's fantastic. Move over Miranda, I'm jealous. Miranda does seem bland, and I'm hoping that's fixed.

Really, I wouldn't be surprised if he dropped to one knee and produced a ring after one line. You know the one.


I agree, Shepard's improved a lot from ME2. As for not having a pre-"We're all going to most likely die" sex scene, I don't really mind. I'm a fan of what DA2 did with romances, the romance scene is the midpoint of the arc not the end. 

What I'm sort of expecting from the romance as a whole is something along the lines of the Imperial Agent from TOR, "Our lives our dangerous and this will never be easy, but it's worth it."

#38052
JosephDucreux

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MEFan, nobody said your art was lousy. In fact, it's really, really good. Calm down and draw more, I like your art.

#38053
shepard1038

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Dr. Doctor wrote...

jtav wrote...

Yeah, Shep's fantastic. Move over Miranda, I'm jealous. Miranda does seem bland, and I'm hoping that's fixed.

Really, I wouldn't be surprised if he dropped to one knee and produced a ring after one line. You know the one.


I agree, Shepard's improved a lot from ME2. As for not having a pre-"We're all going to most likely die" sex scene, I don't really mind. I'm a fan of what DA2 did with romances, the romance scene is the midpoint of the arc not the end. 

What I'm sort of expecting from the romance as a whole is something along the lines of the Imperial Agent from TOR, "Our lives our dangerous and this will never be easy, but it's worth it."

Also he seems more human this time around and his dialogue is better.

#38054
android654

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MisterJB wrote...

android654 wrote...
I think Miranda's "selflessness" stems from a need to fulfil responsibility. Responsibility that is self imposed to stop her father doing to others what he did to her. It's more about her than her sister from where I see it.

And what makes you think that?


Her entire existence since her "emancipation" was centered entirely around Cerberus and its work. Her time spent as an operative in that organization is such a strong part of her identity, so much so that anyone seeing her for the first time would beleive that she had no identity at all. This goal isn't something that was a part of her or her father's breeding until she got to Cerberus. Knowing how the way Cerberus operates is also the way she operates it's not hard to see that the reasons why she does things ultimately circle back to her and her need to be the problem solver for all things that even remotely touch her life. Saving Oriana has nothing to do with her but more that it's Miranda's responsibility to do something about it.

#38055
JosephDucreux

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Eh. I'm just going to drive up north to Edmonton in my panda suit if we're right and Miranda really DOES get screwed over as badly as we think she will be. Goddammit Casey Hudson, WHY did you have to f*ck everything up when it was all nice and perfect?

#38056
Totally Not Swaggacide

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Anyone even bothering with that whole ME3 in space and tracking it down

#38057
SmartBase

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I love the sense of entitlement in this thread

I'm still hoping for a decent part in the game for Lawson (at least LI-wise), I doubt they'd go through the trouble of hiring a VA just to record a few lines but I guess I've seen stranger (and dumber) things happen.

Modifié par SmartBase, 23 février 2012 - 02:32 .


#38058
jtrook

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Dr. Doctor wrote...

android654 wrote...

Luckily I have no dilemma on this. I pretty much see no longevity for a Shepard and Miranda romance, so regardless of how she's treated in ME3 they'll be split up. Either she dies, giving him some degree of guilt and regret for letting her go or she lives and they separate like I originally thought they would. I think a better fit for Beau Shepard would be to have him go back to Ashley, she's the more "stable" of the two and after the whirlwind that was his time fighting the reapers he's seeking some normalcy. Miranda couldn't provide that even if she wanted to.


It sort of depends on the Shepard. My Shepard, James doesn't really like the idea of settling down anytime soon. He's fought through the entire galaxy and wants to do something that doesn't involve war and destruction. Ideally an ending with Miranda would involve working for the organization she builds.

In the event that the Miranda romance doesn't satisfy in ME3 and she doesn't survive the war I can sort of see him turning into a Death Seeker . He wins the war, and by sheer luck comes out of it alive. I sort of picture him heading off to fight injustice alongside Samara, seeking a noble end.

I like the story behind both your shepards. Personally my Shepard is more normal guy then wonder warrior. I would aim for him to be sick of fighting and death and give it up, either in a blaze of glory last stand kinda way or takese his LI (Miranda for me. go figure) and dissappears off the face of the earth/ galaxy but I'm somewhat aiming for a blaze of glory. :ph34r:

#38059
MisterJB

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android654 wrote...
Her entire existence since her "emancipation" was centered entirely around Cerberus and its work. Her time spent as an operative in that organization is such a strong part of her identity, so much so that anyone seeing her for the first time would beleive that she had no identity at all.

Correct.


This goal isn't something that was a part of her or her father's breeding until she got to Cerberus.

Or perhaps the goal, help humans rather than oneself, was something that Miranda nurtured in her as a rebellion against her father selfish reasons (her hatred for her father's selfishness is all but stated in the second conversation) and it is, in fact, the reason she seek out Cerberus in particular.
Either theory is valid.


Knowing how the way Cerberus operates is also the way she operates it's not hard to see that the reasons why she does things ultimately circle back to her and her need to be the problem solver for all things that even remotely touch her life.

The way Cerberus operates? Cerberus does not have a need to solve every problem in the galaxy and neither does Miranda. For example, she is the first to admit that Omega can't be changed.
Cerberus' help is targeted at a very specific group, humans and while the claim could be made that Miranda places trust more in herself to get the job done than in anyone else due to her natural abilities, there is no indication that Miranda or Cerberus will be upset if the goal is reached by someone else. Thus, the goal itself is the reason for taking action. 


Saving Oriana has nothing to do with her but more that it's Miranda's responsibility to do something about it.

Miranda didn't really have any responsability towards Oriana. She did not create her, she was in no way responsible for the way their father would treat her. The act of risking recapture without getting anything in return is selfless. Keeping herself away from her sister to protect her is even more selfless.
Phrases like "It's not about what I want, it's about what's right for her." show that it is, in fact, about Oriana.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 février 2012 - 03:32 .


#38060
jtav

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You could argue she doesn't love Oriana as much as she's projecting her ideals of normalcy onto her. Oriana isn't real for her, she's her perfect little sister who's going to get everything Miranda was denied. Miranda doesn't love Oriana because she doesn't know her. Depends on exactly how dysfunctional you think she is.

#38061
MisterJB

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jtav wrote...

You could argue she doesn't love Oriana as much as she's projecting her ideals of normalcy onto her. Oriana isn't real for her, she's her perfect little sister who's going to get everything Miranda was denied. Miranda doesn't love Oriana because she doesn't know her. Depends on exactly how dysfunctional you think she is.


Just like you could argue that she just wanted to strike back at her father. Niket does so. However, if Miranda didn't actually have any sort of affection for her sister even before their meeting, she would not be interested in actually meeting her. She could simply check to make sure she is happy and leave it at that.

I don't believe Miranda is that dysfunctional. She loved her sister and wanted her to have what she believed was best for her, a normal life. If that meant she had to keep her distance, so be it.
We can at least agree that meeting Oriana turns her into a real person in Miranda's eyes, rather than an ideal.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 février 2012 - 04:17 .


#38062
jtav

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I don't really believe it, other than a few lines that make me think she might, possibly, in that time line be living through Oriana and idealizes her.

#38063
MisterJB

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I think Miranda's only dysfunction could be a flat out refusal to have a child in any way other than sexual intercourse.

#38064
jtav

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It's only in the leak and only if she dies that I start to wonder. Which makes sense; that Miranda is pretty broken. The living Miranda is much healthier.

#38065
android654

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MisterJB wrote...
The way Cerberus operates? Cerberus does not have a need to solve every problem in the galaxy and neither does Miranda. For example, she is the first to admit that Omega can't be changed.
Cerberus' help is targeted at a very specific group, humans and while the claim could be made that Miranda places trust more in herself to get the job done than in anyone else due to her natural abilities, there is no indication that Miranda or Cerberus will be upset if the goal is reached by someone else. Thus, the goal itself is the reason for taking action.


I didn't say she was trying to fix everything I said she tries to fix everything that even remotely involves itself in her life, this would include cerberus as well. If Miranda is concerned with an issue, she wouldn't trust anyone else to touch it except her. I think if she were trying to save Oriana and Shepard said, "Hang tight, I'll grab Thane and Grunt and we'll go get her for you," she wouldn't only go ahead and do it perhaps on her own, but she'd resent Shepard for it. Not because it has to do with Oriana, but because it has to do with her mission and someone coming in. She's very territorial and that's very evident in her personality.

MisterJB...
Miranda didn't really have any responsability towards Oriana. She did not create her, she was in no way responsible for the way their father would treat her. The act of risking recapture without getting anything in return is selfless. Keeping herself away from her sister to protect her is even more selfless.
Phrases like "It's not about what I want, it's about what's right for her." show that it is, in fact, about Oriana.


Jtav summed it  up pretty well below you. But I'll add one thing. It's not uncommon for someone who's a victim of trauma to want revenge or want to prevent the same fate befalling someone else. The entire relationship between Miranda and Oriana has been by proxy, and the little that has occurred had some dealings with their father. If Miranda loved Oriana so much and wanted normalcy for her, she'd quit Cerberus or go to a research position where she could still be immensely influential and relocate somewhere else with her sister. But this isn't even in the realm of possibility for Miranda. This also points towards the errors I see with her problems reproducing.



MisterJB wrote...

I think Miranda's only dysfunction could be a flat out refusal to have a child in any way other than sexual intercourse.


I personally think Miranda's is rife with dysfunction and is perhaps a tragedy or two away from a breakdown. I think outside of her professionalism, her constant stoic nature is a facade that could crumble under the right circumstances.

#38066
MisterJB

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android654 wrote...
I didn't say she was trying to fix everything I said she tries to fix everything that even remotely involves itself in her life, this would include cerberus as well. If Miranda is concerned with an issue, she wouldn't trust anyone else to touch it except her. I think if she were trying to save Oriana and Shepard said, "Hang tight, I'll grab Thane and Grunt and we'll go get her for you," she wouldn't only go ahead and do it perhaps on her own, but she'd resent Shepard for it. Not because it has to do with Oriana, but because it has to do with her mission and someone coming in. She's very territorial and that's very evident in her personality.


I acknowledged that Miranda prefers to do things herself. However, that is due to knowying that her abilities will allow her to do things others can not rather than some need to do everything herself.
A good example of that is how, at first, she was upset that TIM had placed Shepard in charge of the team rather than her. This was because she did not believe Shepard was up to the task. When she is proven wrong, she has no trouble letting him lead.
In the situation you presented, the problem would indeed be that she would not trust something she holds so dearly (Oriana) to anyone else. Thus, it is about Oriana or the missing colonists, not herself.

Jtav summed it  up pretty well below you.

 jtav presented a different option that had nothing to do with Miranda feeling responsible for saving Oriana from their father like you originally suggested. Rather, Miranda living through Oriana which is a completely different issue.
I already answered to it and jtav has added that her theory derivates from a line in ME3 rather than something we can see in ME2.

But I'll add one thing. It's not uncommon for someone who's a victim of trauma to want revenge or want to prevent the same fate befalling someone else.

In such a case, it is still about the victim to be, not the person who has already suffered.
And Miranda risked more suffering to prevent the same fate for Oriana.

The entire relationship between Miranda and Oriana has been by proxy, and the little that has occurred had some dealings with their father.

True, but that doesn't necessarely stop Miranda from loving Oriana. It could have appeared as early as the time Miranda carried baby Ori away from her home.
It does mean that she does not love Oriana the person, however.

If Miranda loved Oriana so much and wanted normalcy for her, she'd quit Cerberus or go to a research position where she could still be immensely influential and relocate somewhere else with her sister. But this isn't even in the realm of possibility for Miranda.


Quitting Cerberus would be stupid. Oriana is already normal with the possible exception of relocations and that is largely due to TIM's influence that Miranda would, most likely, never accomplish on her own.
And of course, there is also the fact that Miranda wants to work for the good of mankind which she believes is better done through Cerberus. She is not with the group just to protect Oriana, she likes it there.
Are you really suggesting Miranda does not love Oriana? It is one of her core traits.

This also points towards the errors I see with her problems reproducing.

What? Her work would take too much of her time?
Possibly but the her SB dossier seems to suggest Miranda has already attempted to get pregnant.
I don't believe it's a coincidence that her medical report comes after her one night stand.

I personally think Miranda's is rife with dysfunction and is perhaps a tragedy or two away from a breakdown. I think outside of her professionalism, her constant stoic nature is a facade that could crumble under the right circumstances.

I don't think there is any facade. The Miranda that wanted to put a control chip in Shepard's brain is as real and valid as the one that begged him not to die.

#38067
Dr. Doctor

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Miranda reminds me a little bit of Fenris from DA2. She's been running from her problems for a long time and by the time ME3 rolls around she's reached the point where she has to finally face her past. At that point she'll either emerge stronger for her trials or become a broken individual.

Modifié par Dr. Doctor, 23 février 2012 - 05:07 .


#38068
Dr. Doctor

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Darn double posts

Modifié par Dr. Doctor, 23 février 2012 - 05:07 .


#38069
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MisterJB wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Face it! BioWare hates Miri as a Character and THIS is a way of expressing it: Taking it out on us and making us suffer.

Image IPB

I laughed.

#38070
JosephDucreux

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Honestly speaking, the life that Miranda wants Oriana to live is the 'normal' life that she wanted to have but never got, so now Miranda's living out her fantasies via proxy. Also, Miranda must've been very thoroughly convinced by someone or something that her life was far from normal and her ideals of normalcy were probably very convincingly presented to her as the social norm; the status quo.

If Miranda hadn't been somehow convinced that her life was abnormal as a child, she would've thought that her childhood was normal and that other children's childhoods were abnormal, and she would've brought that view forward with her into her adulthood. It is true, as young children, we tend to think that our conditions and situations are perfectly normal if not convinced otherwise.

#38071
MisterJB

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As of ME2, I still have my doubts wheter Miranda really wants a normal life.
Yes, she appears to yearn for a relationship with her sister and a child but she is also very passionate when talking about her work and I don't believe Miranda would ever try to stop Oriana from accomplishing great things.
I think Miranda just whishes she didn't have to be sleep with an eye open, be called a terrorist or have to be on the move constantly and that is what she does not want for Oriana.

#38072
FifthFeedom729

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MisterJB wrote...

I think Miranda just whishes she didn't have to be sleep with an eye open, be called a terrorist or have to be on the move constantly and that is what she does not want for Oriana.


Yea I agree. Must be really debilitating after a while to constantly have your guard up, to function alone, even when working right next to other Cerb. agents... Except maybe Jacob, probably why she keep's him around. Oh and alowing herself to feel them feeling's she has for Shepard, she can acually relax around him... well, eventually that is depends on what point in time you look at of course.

#38073
wright1978

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Skullheart wrote...

If you wanna know, the true romaces are: Liara, Ash, Kaidan, Garrus, Tali, Cortez and Diana.


Part of me just doesn't believe Bioware would be that stupid. So i'll hold off my rage till i play the game.

#38074
JosephDucreux

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FifthFeedom729 wrote...
Yea I agree. Must be really debilitating after a while to constantly have your guard up, to function alone, even when working right next to other Cerb. agents... Except maybe Jacob, probably why she keep's him around. Oh and alowing herself to feel them feeling's she has for Shepard, she can acually relax around him... well, eventually that is depends on what point in time you look at of course.


Yeah, it's called stroke and cardiac failure due to the stress of the paranoia. Also, paranoia and schizophrenia may set in after a prolonged period of this.

#38075
Ieldra

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MisterJB wrote...
I don't think there is any facade. The Miranda that wanted to put a control chip in Shepard's brain is as real and valid as the one that begged him not to die.


This. Miranda isn't one-dimensional. She can be professionally distant, coldly pragmatic in one situation and emotional in the next, and both traits are genuine (and as far as I'm concerned, likeable). Things get interesting in conflicting situations like the one with Oriana, where she clearly wants to make contact but thinks - with some justification - that this would not be good for Oriana. Though I think she's also afraid of making contact with Oriana as much as she wants it.

I also agree with everything else you said :lol: