82210 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

My two cents.
A sex scene is not a priority to me and an achievement has no real importance. I am much more interested in the interaction between my two favorite characters, Shepard and Miranda, than I am in a couple of minutes long scene.

However, the absolute sidelining of every ME2 character is inexcusable. I am one of those original fans, I played ME1 long before ME2. I simply happen to find the ME2 characters, overrall, much more interesting than the ones that came before. And, while the argument that VS fans got "screwed" in ME2 is valid, it is even worse for ME2 characters who, from a trilogy, had significant appearances in just one game compared to others who were squadmates in all 3.

Saying that it is for story purpose is ridiculous since Bioware is the one writing the story and we know for a fact that Bioware is prone to rewrite the story whenever a large enough fanbase gets loud. Garrus and Tali's romances in ME2 and Tali's squadmates status in ME3.
The sidelining of certain squadmates who, for one reason or other are just not that important anymore is completely understandable and acceptable. Wrex is one of my favorite characters but he has an important place outside of the squad so, I don't complain. ME2 introduced too many squadmates so, it was be inevitable that some of them just wouldn't be around that long during the sequel.

However. all ME2 squadmates are gone while all but one of ME1 are there despite some having very good reasons to not be. Shadow Broker and Admiralty.
ME1 and ME2 presented very different aspects of the ME universe but they should both be equally valid and the players should not be punished simply due to preferring one over another.
And this is not evident only on the squadmates, the sanctification of the Alliance and the demonization of Cerberus is another symptom.
ME1 and ME2 are both amazing games and I had hoped that Bioware would give fans of both a fair treatment and not treat ME2 as the retarded cousin that everyone tries to ignore at family dinners.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 février 2012 - 05:38 .

[jtav]

They've confirmed all DLC will be set before the ending. And all LIs are not equal. Just ask people who romanced Jacob and Thane.

[husky husk]

jtav wrote...

Let me state my own feelings on the matter as clearly and politely as I can:

I find the fact that the squad is four ME1 characters plus three new people galling. The only character in that group I like is Kaidan. Not talking to my ME1 squad is very doable. It would be unthinkable for me to do that in ME2. So, I find myself hoping I can connect to the new people and find it deeply unfair I'm being punished for preferring Miranda and Legion to Tali and Liara. And yes, I started with ME1,

I agree with this. I'm only looking forward to Vega for the new squad though.
And as for the DLC thing I don't think the're obligated to make any new content for the story. I'd imagine all if not most post game dlc will be for the multiplayer.

[redBadger14]

jtav wrote...

Let me state my own feelings on the matter as clearly and politely as I can:

I find the fact that the squad is four ME1 characters plus three new people galling. The only character in that group I like is Kaidan. Not talking to my ME1 squad is very doable. It would be unthinkable for me to do that in ME2. So, I find myself hoping I can connect to the new people and find it deeply unfair I'm being punished for preferring Miranda and Legion to Tali and Liara. And yes, I started with ME1,

That makes perfect sense, and I agree. I personally don't have any disposition toward Tali, and would rather have Miranda or Legion on my squad than her. Or, a maybe a new person that I can connect to. Either way. That's the downside, is that even though I'm getting back Ash and Garrus and the people I like, I'm stuck with people that I don't like or don't want. And I would trade Diana Allers for Zaeed that's how much I don't want her on my ship. But, that's my opinion.

@MEFan: I know after the ending, what I mean is what type of DLC. A character one, a mission series one, etc.

[Melra]

No sex scene and Shepard may as well be romancing his trusty right hand an edition of Fornax..

[CrutchCricket]

redBadger14 wrote...
I was reading through the thread, ran into this, and I have to say something because it's really bugging me.

I don't think you realize how self-centered you are being. What right does BioWare have? Oh I don't know, maybe the fact that they are making the game in the first place, not you. That, and as a fan of both Ashley *and* Miranda, this is totally acceptable. Lets face it, Ashley and Kaidan fans were "screwed" over in ME2 with their romances. But, in hindsight, it was for story reasons, and just so why there quite possibly will be a lack of a "sex" scene in ME3 for Miranda. The story is the way it is, and it makes no sense to place a sex scene in the game for Miranda when it realistically is not possible. They do however have a make-out scene of sorts, and that can be just as powerful as a sex scene, if done right. You begging for a sex scene in the game for Miranda and practically crying about it is borderline disgusting. Have some semblance of maturity man. 

The "true romances" are the squaddies from ME1 with exception to Wrex, and this is simply because they were in the very first game. You couldn't romance Garrus or Tali, but since they were squaddies in ME2 they are essentially carried over as "true romances."

The way the story pans out, it would seem that BioWare is rewarding fans of the whole trilogy; those who played the first game when it first came out. I am totally fine with this, being someone who has romanced both Ashley and Miranda. Stop being so pessimistic and be a little optimistic for crying out loud. It may not be the best circumstance sure. But be considerate that BioWare is implementing a romance for a character who may not be a squaddie, and the fact that they are the ones writing the canon.

And let me be clear that you can believe what you want to believe. All I am saying is be a little more respectable to the team that wrote this whole story, all the characters, and is bringing the final chapter in this story to us. Canon is determined by Casey Hudson's team of writers, and I think Casey Hudson and his team deserve at least that much respect.

While I agree with the spirit of this, I do not accept that a) no romance/sex scene for Miranda is a given. Only the full game can confirm or deny this. So peeps on either side of this issue should just chill. Sidelining of ME2 has any sort of rational explanation. The sidelining of the VS and Liara in ME2 served to give them plot armor for the suicide mission, (which was undermined by Garrus and Tali anway) And c) "true romances"- the very concept is bull****. We don't have confirmation that they work the way people seem to think they work but I can't think of a single implementation that would be adequate. The concept itself is flawed. There are other ways to reward long-time fans.

Also you may be wasting your time admonishing MEFan. He's pretty much incorrigible in his fanboy ways.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 23 février 2012 - 05:48 .

[redBadger14]

MisterJB wrote...

My two cents.
A sex scene is not a priority to me and an achievement has no real importance. I am much more interested in the interaction between my two favorite characters, Shepard and Miranda, than I am in a couple of minutes long scene.

However, the absolute sidelining of every ME2 character is inexcusable. I am one of those original fans, I played ME1 long before ME2. I simply happen to find the ME2 characters, overrall, much more interesting than the ones that came before. And, while the argument that VS fans got "screwed" in ME2 is valid, it is even worse for ME2 characters who, from a trilogy, had significant appearances in just one game compared to others who were squadmates in all 3.

Saying that it is for story purpose is ridiculous since Bioware is the one writing the story and we know for a fact that Bioware is prone to rewrite the story whenever a large enough fanbase gets loud. Garrus and Tali's romances in ME2 and Tali's squadmates status in ME3.
The sidelining of certain squadmates who, for one reason or other are just not that important anymore is completely understandable and acceptable. Wrex is one of my favorite characters but he has an important place outside of the squad so, I don't complain. ME2 introduced too many squadmates so, it was be inevitable that some of them just wouldn't be around that long during the sequel.

However. all ME2 squadmates are gone while all but one of ME1 are there despite some having very good reasons to not be. Shadow Broker and Admiralty.
ME1 and ME2 presented very different aspects of the ME universe but they should both be equally valid and the players should not be punished simply due to preferring one over another.
And this is not evident only on the squadmates, the sanctification of the Alliance and the demonization of Cerberus is another symptom.
ME1 and ME2 are both amazing games and I had hoped that Bioware would give fans of both a fair treatment and not treat ME2 as the retarded cousin that everyone tries to ignore at family dinners.

I agree with all this, and let me clarify that while I find some things "acceptable," it doesn't mean I like it. I certainly don't like that great ME2 characters are for the most part being sidelined. Me whining however won't help matters, and there's nothing really now thats going to change the final game, so I am going to deal with the cards I am dealt no matter how bad the cards are.

I contribute most of the fault being on the fact that we had way too many squad members in ME2. It was a long list of characters that BioWare should have known would not all have significant roles in ME3. When we have squaddies, we like to make attachments to them in any way possible, especially if we like the character. I think in this way BioWare doomed the ME2 characters simply by making too many of them squadmates.

[redBadger14]

CrutchCricket wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...
I was reading through the thread, ran into this, and I have to say something because it's really bugging me.

I don't think you realize how self-centered you are being. What right does BioWare have? Oh I don't know, maybe the fact that they are making the game in the first place, not you. That, and as a fan of both Ashley *and* Miranda, this is totally acceptable. Lets face it, Ashley and Kaidan fans were "screwed" over in ME2 with their romances. But, in hindsight, it was for story reasons, and just so why there quite possibly will be a lack of a "sex" scene in ME3 for Miranda. The story is the way it is, and it makes no sense to place a sex scene in the game for Miranda when it realistically is not possible. They do however have a make-out scene of sorts, and that can be just as powerful as a sex scene, if done right. You begging for a sex scene in the game for Miranda and practically crying about it is borderline disgusting. Have some semblance of maturity man. 

The "true romances" are the squaddies from ME1 with exception to Wrex, and this is simply because they were in the very first game. You couldn't romance Garrus or Tali, but since they were squaddies in ME2 they are essentially carried over as "true romances."

The way the story pans out, it would seem that BioWare is rewarding fans of the whole trilogy; those who played the first game when it first came out. I am totally fine with this, being someone who has romanced both Ashley and Miranda. Stop being so pessimistic and be a little optimistic for crying out loud. It may not be the best circumstance sure. But be considerate that BioWare is implementing a romance for a character who may not be a squaddie, and the fact that they are the ones writing the canon.

And let me be clear that you can believe what you want to believe. All I am saying is be a little more respectable to the team that wrote this whole story, all the characters, and is bringing the final chapter in this story to us. Canon is determined by Casey Hudson's team of writers, and I think Casey Hudson and his team deserve at least that much respect.

While I agree with the spirit of this, I do not accept that a) no romance/sex scene for Miranda is a given. Only the full game can confirm or deny this. So peeps on either side of this issue should just chill. And "true romances"- the very concept is bull****. We don't have confirmation that they work the way people seem to think they work but I can't think of a single implementation that would be adequate. The concept itself is flawed. There are other ways to reward long-time fans.

Also you may be wasting your time admonishing MEFan. He's pretty much incorrigible in his fanboy ways.

I don't like the term "true romances" either, I was simply stating what it means to the people that actually prefer to use that term. In fact, true romance is mostly subjective to each person, depending on who we prefer to romance, not what "society" defines them as.

And yeah I mistyped by stating a lack of a sex scene was fact, as I do not know nor does anyone else. To correct it, I should say that if a sex scene isn't present then it will be fine, at least to me. Some of the best written romances are ones that have no presence of a sex scene. As long as the romance is powerful and well-written, I think that is what matters, more so than a brief 30-second sex scene.

And yes after reading the past bunch of pages I realise this about MEFan lol

Modifié par redBadger14, 23 février 2012 - 05:53 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Let me state my own feelings on the matter as clearly and politely as I can:

I find the fact that the squad is four ME1 characters plus three new people galling. The only character in that group I like is Kaidan. Not talking to my ME1 squad is very doable. It would be unthinkable for me to do that in ME2. So, I find myself hoping I can connect to the new people and find it deeply unfair I'm being punished for preferring Miranda and Legion to Tali and Liara. And yes, I started with ME1,

Short and to the point. QFT.

[android654]

This thread moves too damn fast. Was going to address something someone wrote responding to an analysis I made but it's ten pages back.

[Ieldra]

redBadger14 wrote...
I don't like the term "true romances" either, I was simply stating what it means to the people that actually prefer to use that term. In fact, true romance is mostly subjective to each person, depending on who we prefer to romance, not what "society" defines them as.

And yet, Bioware presumes to define for us what - or rather who - will be a "true romance". Had MIranda never been an LI at all, I could live with that. Miranda is just as interesting as a friend. But now that Miranda *is* LI, her romance deserves a fair treatment, and telling those of us who imagine Miranda is their Shepard's true love - if you believe in such a thing - that no, she's rather not that and our Shepards have been wrong to romance her in ME2, that's insulting to say the least.

I just hope the flag that triggered this debate is misleading. Otherwise, it's one more reason for tar and feathers.

@android:
Just wait until the game is out. This thread will explode. Hopefully not with wrath.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 février 2012 - 06:13 .

[D. Carmine]

MisterJB wrote...

My two cents.
A sex scene is not a priority to me and an achievement has no real importance. I am much more interested in the interaction between my two favorite characters, Shepard and Miranda, than I am in a couple of minutes long scene.

However, the absolute sidelining of every ME2 character is inexcusable. I am one of those original fans, I played ME1 long before ME2. I simply happen to find the ME2 characters, overrall, much more interesting than the ones that came before. And, while the argument that VS fans got "screwed" in ME2 is valid, it is even worse for ME2 characters who, from a trilogy, had significant appearances in just one game compared to others who were squadmates in all 3.

Saying that it is for story purpose is ridiculous since Bioware is the one writing the story and we know for a fact that Bioware is prone to rewrite the story whenever a large enough fanbase gets loud. Garrus and Tali's romances in ME2 and Tali's squadmates status in ME3.
The sidelining of certain squadmates who, for one reason or other are just not that important anymore is completely understandable and acceptable. Wrex is one of my favorite characters but he has an important place outside of the squad so, I don't complain. ME2 introduced too many squadmates so, it was be inevitable that some of them just wouldn't be around that long during the sequel.

However. all ME2 squadmates are gone while all but one of ME1 are there despite some having very good reasons to not be. Shadow Broker and Admiralty.
ME1 and ME2 presented very different aspects of the ME universe but they should both be equally valid and the players should not be punished simply due to preferring one over another.
And this is not evident only on the squadmates, the sanctification of the Alliance and the demonization of Cerberus is another symptom.
ME1 and ME2 are both amazing games and I had hoped that Bioware would give fans of both a fair treatment and not treat ME2 as the retarded cousin that everyone tries to ignore at family dinners.

I may not like you...

But god damn it, this is my new favorite post on BSN. +100 points to you sir.

[D. Carmine]

TomY90 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

What do you guys mean Miranda isn't a true love?

There's evidence of a 'true love' flag in leak which ME2 exclusive characters aren't included in. What that means is anyone's guess.

I hope thats not true that is so annoying if they ME2 characters arent classed as true love's. it should be up to the gamer to decide if the character they romance is a true love or not.

I saw those flags the other day. Needless to say, I thought they were very strange. I assume it just means they don't count for the obligatory paramour achievement, which doesn't bother me, personally.

Modifié par D. Carmine, 23 février 2012 - 06:19 .

[redBadger14]

Ieldra2 wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...
I don't like the term "true romances" either, I was simply stating what it means to the people that actually prefer to use that term. In fact, true romance is mostly subjective to each person, depending on who we prefer to romance, not what "society" defines them as.

And yet, Bioware presumes to define for us what - or rather who - will be a "true romance". Had MIranda never been an LI at all, I could live with that. Miranda is just as interesting as a friend. But now that Miranda *is* LI, her romance deserves a fair treatment, and telling those of us who imagine Miranda is their Shepard's true love - if you believe in such a thing - that no, she's rather not that and our Shepards have been wrong to romance her in ME2, that's insulting to say the least.

I just hope the flag that triggered this debate is misleading. Otherwise, it's one more reason for tar and feathers.

@android:
Just wait until the game is out. This thread will explode. Hopefully not with wrath.

True.

Hopefully when the game comes out  we will know for certain.

[Balancer]

I dunno why should bioware invest in more romance options like they did in ME 2 if you dont have a chance to continue the romance and conclude it with a satisfactory ending i've faith in bioware and i think they migth surprise us.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Let me state my own feelings on the matter as clearly and politely as I can:

I find the fact that the squad is four ME1 characters plus three new people galling. The only character in that group I like is Kaidan. Not talking to my ME1 squad is very doable. It would be unthinkable for me to do that in ME2. So, I find myself hoping I can connect to the new people and find it deeply unfair I'm being punished for preferring Miranda and Legion to Tali and Liara. And yes, I started with ME1,

Short and to the point. QFT.

Yep

[MinorPrime]

redBadger14 wrote...

@android:
Just wait until the game is out. This thread will explode. Hopefully not with wrath.

I don't think anyone will be able to keep up with this thread, it's even hard as it is right now:D.
Reading everyone's comments makes me very unsure of how my experience is going to be playing the game, I have to say that I've tried to know the least about any spoilers about Miranda and I don't know if that will pay off or will let me down big time... I think my ME3 beginning will set off a feeling 'when will Shepard meet Miranda?'

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

redBadger14 wrote...

@MEFan: I know after the ending, what I mean is what type of DLC. A character one, a mission series one, etc.

Mission with Miri.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

I'm getting the vibe here that it is pointless to stay Romamced to Miranda in ME3. I hope that's not true

[TomY90]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

I'm getting the vibe here that it is pointless to stay Romamced to Miranda in ME3. I hope that's not true

we do not know that.

It is just that when you compare the special treatment the ME1 characters have recieved compared to the ME2 characters (which were in my opinion better for being more interesting in most cases).

But I am hoping that bioware have not just reduced romances with our romance choices just to a couple of messages and 1 conversation.

Guess we will find out in 2 weeks time.

Modifié par TomY90, 23 février 2012 - 07:21 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

@ Totally Not Swaggacide

That is what BioWare is making ME3 appear to be. Just like the SM in ME2. In the SM, BioWare made it seem like we didn't Romance with Miri at all. They could have at least shown some Acknowledgment. For Example: There could have been a 10 second chat between us and Miri after going over the plans to infiltrate the Collector Base after crash landing and after everyone else in the room left.

It was either a plot hole easily missed, or Miri and Shepard REALLY knew how to hide Personal Emotions.

I sincerely hope there's Acknowledgment when seeing her on the Citadel in ME3.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 23 février 2012 - 07:24 .

[D. Carmine]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

@ Totally Not Swaggacide

That is what BioWare is making ME3 appear to be. Just like the SM in ME2. In the SM, BioWare made it seem like we didn't Romance with Miri at all. They could have at least shown some Acknowledgment. For Example: There could have been a 10 second chat between us and Miri after going over the plans to infiltrate the Collector Base after crash landing and after everyone else in the room left.

It was either a plot hole easily missed, or Miri and Shepard REALLY knew how to hide Personal Emotions.

I sincerely hope there's Acknowledgment when seeing her on the Citadel in ME3.

Some of the leaked dialogue is an affirmation or a cancel of the relationship, for her first conversation.

At least in terms of the SM, it made sense for them to not be all kissy with each other, since they were in the middle of a dangerous mission. That said, after defeating the human Reaper, I sort of expected a snippet of dialogue with Shepard showing relief that Miranda was still alive, after the metal beam fell on her.

Modifié par D. Carmine, 23 février 2012 - 07:33 .

[jtav]

And it's really very sweet. Just not enough meat there.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

D. Carmine wrote...

At least in terms of the SM, it made sense for them to not be all kissy with each other, since they were in the middle of a dangerous mission. That said, after defeating the human Reaper, I sort of expected a snippet of dialogue with Shepard showing relief that Miranda was still alive, after the metal beam fell on her.

It would have been nice to say "Good Luck" to each before leaving the Normandy after crash landing.

[D. Carmine]

TomY90 wrote...

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

I'm getting the vibe here that it is pointless to stay Romamced to Miranda in ME3. I hope that's not true

we do not know that.

It is just that when you compare the special treatment the ME1 characters have recieved compared to the ME2 characters (which were in my opinion better for being more interesting in most cases).

But I am hoping that bioware have not just reduced romances with our romance choices just to a couple of messages and 1 conversation.

Guess we will find out in 2 weeks time.

@ the bold- It's a little more than that. I can PM Miranda's dialogue with Shepard to you, if you'd like.

I agree with you about the ME2 characters being more interesting. Even the ME1 squad mates that returned (Tali and Garrus) were far more intersting to talk to in ME2 than ME1.

Modifié par D. Carmine, 23 février 2012 - 07:36 .