82210 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

*looks at the art book* I'm never complaining about the catsuit ever again.

As for people leaving Miranda, I can't blame them. I tend to go for whatever gives me the maximum amount of enjoyable content. Miranda is the exception. So I can't fault anyone. And if there really is no future for Shep/Miranda, I'll likely leave her for Cortez. I signed on for tragedy with Thane. I'm not interested in telling that story with Miranda.

[Jynthor]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Jynthor wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Having said, that, Miranda's outfit is far from the worst offender in this regard. *cough* asari *cough* And at least you can pretend it's made from super-durable intelligent material that hardens when hit by a bullet. It's the cheap style I'm mainly criticizing. The high heels, though, are beyond redemption...

What Asari wears an outfit in combat "worse" than Miranda's?

Samara does, in case you've not noticed. But that's not what I meant: what sends me up the wall is that they made the asari look *exactly* like human women for no better reason than the Rule of Sexy and against all biological sense. It's ok to make most aliens humanoid, but this is ridiculous. And then make them omnisexual as well?

The presentation of the asari as omnisexual blue space babes who get it on with everyone *and* look like human women is the worst offense against a coherent, believable universe in the ME universe. 

Right, I forgot about Miss McCleavage. Well, it's worse in some ways, better in some. The material looks stronger, but it has the whole cleavage thing going on which is weird of course.

[Errol Dnamyx]

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

^ 

Though I doubt Miri would----well...would she talk to People on Facebook, more specifically Oriana? 

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 février 2012 - 03:22 .

[flemm]

ThomGau wrote...
However I don't like them because some people are narrow-minded and only tend to see her as a sexual tool. Instead of trying to look deeper through her character they just stop at this this particular aspect and make insulting remarks about her. It says a lot about their personality in real life .

I guess it would be fair to say that I have mixed feelings as well. Overall, I'm not sure that reducing the overtly sexual elements of Miranda's presentation would make her a better/more interesting character. She's a deep character, but also a superficial character.

So you get a variety of reactions ranging from total rejection of her as pure fan service, not to be "taken seriously," to enjoyment of the fan service without any deeper attachment, to digging the sexualized aspects and the deeper aspects, and finally the more militant anti-fan service fans (LoL) who despise the superficial elements for the most part.

So, I dunno. I think the dynamic where you get some people who see her as just walking ****** and *ss, basically, and others who can debate for hours the intricacies of her philosophical beliefs is just part of what makes Miranda Miranda. 

Modifié par flemm, 24 février 2012 - 03:25 .

[CrutchCricket]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

 Here's the Bigger Version: 

Does no one else think Miranda is collapsing/dying in this pic? That's the impression I get from it. I guess it's alright if it's only the former but still... Makes me uneasy.

Regarding the burger wrapper- I've said this before but I'm referring to the old aluminum foil wrappers.  Wendy's had them as did Burger King. Not sure about other places. They're discontinued now.  But the outside was shiny silver while the inside was that exact hue of white with faded grey hexagon outlines. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. I tried googling it to show you but I can't find a picture.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

She's not dying. It's only a Dramatic/Romantic look, like you see on Movie Posters.

[Ieldra]

TomY90 wrote...
I do agree the heels are abit too far and yes they dont have to go such extremes for sexy factors. but it does not matter what the character is wearing to the extent you are saying because the main reason we like mass effect is for the story and the universe not for what the characters wear (in most cases).

Which means that things matter where they go against the consistency or believability of the universe. Being able to fight in high heels is such a thing. Having outfits not protect the vitals is another, because even if Miranda heals fast, everyone would prefer not to get wounded in the first place, even less wounded in the chest. And generally, not dressing for the occasion threatens my suspension of disbelief, and to hell with these "iconic" outfits characters wear everywhere with complete disregard of circumstances. Jack, Miranda and Samara fighting without adequate protection, Shepard drinking stuff through his helmet, and DA2's Fenris picking up a wine glass with a plate-armor glove, it's all the same thing. Any TV show wouldn't get away with that, it's only games that do this. Which shows that this isn't about artistic style, it's just an unwillingness to spend more resources on plausible outfits that fit the occasion. The least they could do is be honest about this.

I complained about the Fenris thing in person at GamesCom in the DA2 Q&A, and what did they tell me? "Next time we'll make the scene so you don't see it". So they'd rather compromise on the visuals of a nice scene than make characters dress for the occasion and let Fenris remove his gloves when he picks up a delicate object. Words cannot express how I hate that approach to characters' presentation.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 février 2012 - 03:40 .

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...
The presentation of the asari as omnisexual blue space babes who get it on with everyone *and* look like human women is the worst offense against a coherent, believable universe in the ME universe. 

Common ancestor Precursor species? Aren't they supposed to be a nod to Star Trek tropes?

Also I'm not in the spoiler group, but I can see people who post in it and I can access the discussions. Only time I'll ever click on it.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

The Asari remind me of the "Green Women" from Star Trek.

[CrutchCricket]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

She's not dying. It's only a Dramatic/Romantic look, like you see on Movie Posters.

Still makes me uneasy. There's sexy, romantic "falling in your lover's arms on the battlefield" and then there's "we need a goddamn medic and a miracle STAT!"

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

lol:lol:

Reports for the Illusive Man eh?

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Any TV show wouldn't get away with that, it's only games that do this. Which shows that this isn't about artistic style, it's just an unwillingness to spend more resources on plausible outfits that fit the occasion.

Ok, but that's a bit of a simplistic comparison. Obviously, tv shows have to manage their budgets and that comes across in roughly analagous ways. An example would be the "bottle show" in sci-fi tv series, which is basically an episode done on a minimal budget because all the money for effects and guest stars was spent on other episodes. Only pre-existing sets are used, etc.

Fans often complain about these episodes, and, to be fair, that is partly because they are often bad.

But the point is: producers in all these media do have to sacrifice in certain areas, often with less-than-ideal results. It just comes across in different ways in each medium.

Modifié par flemm, 24 février 2012 - 03:43 .

[jtav]

They're supposed to remind you.

As for Miranda, my main complaint is that I don't believe she'd dress like that. Miranda isn't a femme fatale nor is she overtly sexual. Outfit and character don't match. Compare with Isabela, who I absolutely believe would dress like that.

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
The presentation of the asari as omnisexual blue space babes who get it on with everyone *and* look like human women is the worst offense against a coherent, believable universe in the ME universe. 

Common ancestor Precursor species? Aren't they supposed to be a nod to Star Trek tropes?

That's just it. They aren't presented as a common ancestor. I would have much less of a problem with them if there was some not too far back common ancestry between humans and asari. That they may be such a nod is no justification.

Also I'm not in the spoiler group, but I can see people who post in it and I can access the discussions. Only time I'll ever click on it.

Thank you. Then it works as intended.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

CrutchCricket wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

She's not dying. It's only a Dramatic/Romantic look, like you see on Movie Posters.

Still makes me uneasy. There's sexy, romantic "falling in your lover's arms on the battlefield" and then there's "we need a goddamn medic and a miracle STAT!"

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

lol:lol:

Reports for the Illusive Man eh?

I'd go for "Falling In Your Lover's Arms On The Battlefield."


And by the looks of that GIF, the Profile Picture on the Facebook Page looks like Grunt.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 février 2012 - 03:46 .

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Any TV show wouldn't get away with that, it's only games that do this. Which shows that this isn't about artistic style, it's just an unwillingness to spend more resources on plausible outfits that fit the occasion.

Ok, but that's a bit of a simplistic comparison. Obviously, tv shows have to manage their budgets and that comes across in roughly analagous ways. An example would be the "bottle show" in sci-fi tv series, which is basically an episode done on a minimal budget because all the money for effects and guest stars was spent on other episodes. Only pre-existing sets are used, etc.

Fans often complain about these episodes, and, to be fair, that is partly because they are often bad.

But the point is: producers in all these media do have to sacrifice in certain areas, often with less-than-ideal results. It just comes across in different ways in each medium.

I can accept that. But as I said (in the part you conveniently snipped), the least they could do is be honest about it instead of insisting it was some kind of "artistic style".

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...

That's just it. They aren't presented as a common ancestor. I would have much less of a problem with them if there was some not too far back common ancestry between humans and asari. That they may be such a nod is no justification.

Maybe it's not stated but there's nothing contradicting it. It's an easy thing to handwave. So it really comes down to a choice: do you want to be upset by it because the writers didn't specifically justify it or do you want to justify it for yourself?

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

That's just it. They aren't presented as a common ancestor. I would have much less of a problem with them if there was some not too far back common ancestry between humans and asari. That they may be such a nod is no justification.

Maybe it's not stated but there's nothing contradicting it. It's an easy thing to handwave. So it really comes down to a choice: do you want to be upset by it because the writers didn't specifically justify it or do you want to justify it for yourself?

It's not easy to handwave. And in fact, handwaving is bad. In this case, the absence of evidence is damning. There are many codex entries about the asari, and nobody in-universe even mentions this extremely weird thing about their appearance except that bachelor party we clearly aren't meant to take seriously. Evidence enough for me that the writers didn't care about consistency and made the asari as they are for pure fanservice, expecting the fans to see this as an acceptable break from reality because yo, they're sexy.

And you know what? It works. For the most part anyway. Most people don't care because they're sexy. I don't know which attitude I despise more.

[Ieldra]

But this is getting OT. Perhaps we should get away from my pet peeves with ME's worldbuilding and back to this woman:

[ThomGau]

jtav wrote...

As for Miranda, my main complaint is that I don't believe she'd dress like that. Miranda isn't a femme fatale nor is she overtly sexual. Outfit and character don't match. Compare with Isabela, who I absolutely believe would dress like that.

You make a good point ma'am.
I found out that BW wanted to give her a femme fatale look after I finished ME2, I was rather surprised. She may have the look but she is definitely not one, she is far from being a tease as evidenced by the ME2 romance arc.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I can accept that. But as I said (in the part you conveniently snipped), the least they could do is be honest about it instead of insisting it was some kind of "artistic style".

I don't think they make too much of an effort to hide the fact that available resources/development cycles, etc. determine some of the choices you are referring to. Some of them undoubtedly are artistic/style choices, though.

Modifié par flemm, 24 février 2012 - 04:29 .

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...
As for Miranda, my main complaint is that I don't believe she'd dress like that. Miranda isn't a femme fatale nor is she overtly sexual. Outfit and character don't match. Compare with Isabela, who I absolutely believe would dress like that.

I think the explanation is simpler- it just puts people off-guard. They're not sure how to react. We've said she can use her sexualization as a weapon and will do so if need be. But even in every day dealings with allies, subtle things to throw them off might come in handy. Of course the outfit is far from subtle but I'm just saying the effect may be intended to be small and subtle.

[SmartBase]

Source of the most recently posted fanart:

http://joyceal.deviantart.com/gallery/

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
As for Miranda, my main complaint is that I don't believe she'd dress like that. Miranda isn't a femme fatale nor is she overtly sexual.

For the second part, I think she is, at least situationally. For the first part, that's true, but it was part of the original concept and therefore of the character's origins.

Arguably (and somewhat pending what happens with the character in ME3), you can probably make the case that part of Miranda's story is her growing away from the conventions/expectations for the femme fatale trope that was the original concept for the character. This already happens to a great extent in ME2, as you state.

But partly that is because the "objectification" of the character is written into the game via her father, whom she is struggling against. So, in essence, I guess you could say the player has a choice to side with the father, or against him.

Oddly enough, this is perhaps clearest during the scene with the infamous buttshot, because that is also the scene where she is telling you about her sister, whom she is hoping to save from essentially that same "fate." I'm sure this was accidental, but it fits in an oddly fortuitous sort of way.

Modifié par flemm, 24 février 2012 - 04:32 .