82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Vertigo_1]

jlb524 wrote...
I agree with this.  I think they did a good job with that.  Similar to how the DA2 companion missions were the way in which you got to know them better.  But in that game, I think they did a better job of continuing the friendship beyond the missions and even developing the companions more via squad banter.  Wouldn't it have been cool if someone like Samara commented on Miranda's loyalty misson (given Samara's troubled relationship with family)?  Or Garrus?  I say...yes!

I just feel like, after you do get to know them for the first time, a little further development (on the friend path) would be gravy.  I've finally gotten to know you better...now what?  There really wasn't anything beyond that.  I hope ME3 takes that and devs the relationships more.

Yeah I felt the same way regarding DA2 companions.  Then again I always felt like the DA team put more effort into companions, while the ME team, less so.  Not to say one team is better than the other of course.

Perhaps ME3 will have more friendship dialogue? I mean everyone's comming back one way or another.  Plus their story arcs will continue and be complete at the end of ME3.  I would think along that path there would be some more friendship dialogue.

One thing to point out is there are more writers and editors working on ME3 than there ever were for ME1 or ME2.
So this gives me hope:wizard:

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 10 juillet 2011 - 05:27 .

[AresXX7]

Thanks again for the kind words everyone!

[Vertigo_1]

I have way too much stuff going on in my 'signature' area...need to figure out where I'm going to put everything.

[AresXX7]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

I have way too much stuff going on in my 'signature' area...need to figure out where I'm going to put everything.

lol
I know what you mean, just look at mine.

[Grishnog]

Just made my profile, but been following the game for quite a while. I hope Miranda is back and has a big role. I wish all Miranda fans the best of luck in ME3. And have to steal one of the the nice banners.

Modifié par Grishnog, 10 juillet 2011 - 06:06 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I just wanted to point out that it is nice to have MORE Miri banners. <3<3<3<3^_^

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 10 juillet 2011 - 06:49 .

[Melra]

Arijharn wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Prime evils? What's that supposed to mean, eh?

Oooh, I leave that to your imagination.

Oh, you mean Diablo, Baal and Mephiston?

Hahah. Aye!.

[Ieldra]

Stardusk78 wrote...
1. A lot of people like her (including myself)

Check:lol:

2. Many people romanced her (I did it on 2 playthroughs)

5 here. All my maleShep playthroughs.

3. She is a very important figure in Cerberus and a central character in ME2, especially considering her 'resignation' if going the Paragon path with Terminator.

Disagree. Why would she be more important when she resigns? And btw, not for the last time I'm getting a little annoyed at the assumption that her resignation is some kind of standard ending. I have no doubt she'll eventually be with us and against Cerberus in ME3, but I really prefer that "Cerberus is working with the Reapers" is the trigger for her switching sides. 

4. A conflict between her and Ashely/Kaidan would make for a fascinating interaction.

Definitely. In my femShep games, I'd love to see some sexual tension between Kaidan and her and Ashley, well, the combination Ashley/Miranda is a guarantee of epic banter.

I seriously think that it would be tragic is Miranda were not a permanent squadmate. If we indeed are going to have more depth but fewer squadmates, then she should be one of them, for all of the reasons above plus her being a central link between ME2 and ME3.

Not so sure about that. I certainly wish to have her with me for *most* of the game, but if she'll get initiative and agency independently from Shepard, which is my No. 1 wish, then she'll have to be absent for a time here and there to do her own thing. Also recall that CH said in the GI article that the core team would consist of characters around which the story revolves. I wonder if they'd put a character who can die in that group.

However it goes, I'd like her to have an impact on the big picture, such as that her presence opens up aspects of the ending that wouldn't otherwise be there. Things like this: If Miranda is present in your games, you'll have the option to let her take over what's left of Cerberus and reshape it along the lines of the salarian STG, but if she's not present you can only destroy it completely.

[Ieldra]

Varus Praetor wrote...
I gotta say, I'm loving the idea of Kai Leng and TIM killing Oriana in retribution for Miranda's betrayal of Cerberus. Obviously this is a horrible act, but that would be a powerful mission from an emotional and story telling aspect. I mean, I hope BW is going to make sure we have a very good reason for wanting Cerberus destroyed other than "um...and yeah, your allies are bad now!" This would more than fit the bill.

Kill those responsible, keep the structure intact. This may be a good setup from a personal viewpoint, but I think ME3 should be very much less about the character's personal problems than about the big picture. I'd tell Miranda to think about it and not let revenge get in the way of a better victory.

Also, I'm contrary ín such things. The more a story wants me to hate something or someone, the more I'm inclined to take a mental step back and make a very detached judgment. Cerberus is the prime example - the more cheap horror the games shout at me to show that they're EVIL, the more I'm inclined to look for redeeming or at least useful features. If they had made the evil more believable, had not tried to manipulate me into blind hate, then I would've been much more likely to follow their lead  
Besides, emotions like hate aren't a good guide in a war for survival, and personal drama, while it definitely needs to be present, should take a backseat this time. There are more important things to worry about.

Edit:
If Oriana must die, then let her die in a Reaper attack. That would be much more appropriate.

Actually, Miranda's character has a lot of interesting story potential just because of her rank in Cerberus, but this could definitely be expanded. Hopefully BW is still interested in that, and I'm clinging to hope that ME3 has many side missions dedicated to expanding/closing back stories from previous fan favorite characters.

I don't think we can expect exactly many. I would like to have Miranda meet her father for a final confrontation again, but that, too, is a personal story that would have to be handled with care. If they can connect it to the big picture, then I'm all for it, otherwise I have my doubts.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 juillet 2011 - 07:33 .

[Ieldra]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
I just feel like, after you do get to know them for the first time, a little further development (on the friend path) would be gravy.  I've finally gotten to know you better...now what?  There really wasn't anything beyond that.  I hope ME3 takes that and devs the relationships more.

Just subscribing to the wish for more friendship dialogue.

Yeah I felt the same way regarding DA2 companions.  Then again I always felt like the DA team put more effort into companions, while the ME team, less so.  Not to say one team is better than the other of course.

Ah well, but then they ruined it all by going overboard with the railroading. Having "Talk to X" pop up in your journal, of all things, as if that were some kind of task, made it all feel schematic to me. I felt as if working on a to-do list. That almost ruined the DA2 relationships for me. Also while there is more talk, what is there is much more shallow than ME2's dialogue. So....no, I don't think they should take DA2's way of doing things as an example.

One thing to point out is there are more writers and editors working on ME3 than there ever were for ME1 or ME2.

Are there? How do you know that?

[Ieldra]

Grishnog wrote...
Just made my profile, but been following the game for quite a while. I hope Miranda is back and has a big role. I wish all Miranda fans the best of luck in ME3. And have to steal one of the the nice banners.

Welcome. Someone who makes his very first post on BSN here in the Miranda thread has definitely set the priorities right.
Also I have no problem with others using my banner. It's a little tricky to put in though, and its size means you can't put text above or below it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 juillet 2011 - 07:48 .

[Arijharn]

I'm inclined to agree with Ieldra (! *gasp* like that *ever* happens) about Oriana. Part of me thinks she should die if only to add some sort of emotional impact. I think if BW doesn't try to make the Reaper War hit you personally on multiple levels than I don't think they're trying hard enough. They can't impact Shephard directly I don't think in regards to his background because his or her parents are dead on two of the three pre-history checks, but they can make peripheral hits on people you presumably care about.

I'm not sure on whether Oriana should die, just that if she does then it's attributable to the Reapers, and not to TIM. Mainly because I think Cerberus has bigger fish to fry (aka; Shephard and co) and for them to waste 'time' hitting Oriana is probably worse usages of it than Paulie Franchetti hitting Jackie Estacado's Jenny (brofist pump to anyone who gets that reference) -- because at least then Jenny is somewhat directly connected. A hit on Oriana would be like a hit using 'six degrees of separation.'

[Mr Plow]

I don't think it should be obligatory that Oriana should die as to show how evil Cereberus or the Reapers are. We get it already, we don't need that as a punch to the gut

[jlb524]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Edit:
If Oriana must die, then let her die in a Reaper attack. That would be much more appropriate.

Would be interesting considering Cerberus' 'new' ties to the Reapers.

[Ieldra]

jlb524 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Edit:
If Oriana must die, then let her die in a Reaper attack. That would be much more appropriate.

Would be interesting considering Cerberus' 'new' ties to the Reapers.

Yes. But that's not the point. The point is that this would result in personal drama without directing hate at someone or something. The Reapers are too big to hate, they just need to be fought. And while it would illustrate on a personal level that Cerberus is on the "wrong" side, they weren't responsible. It would also bring home that the Reapers are the greater "evil", a fact all too many people appear to forget, given how debates about Cerberus usually go.

Not that I want Oriana to die. I'd prefer if she played no significant role in ME3. There has been quite enough family drama in ME2. We need the last act to focus on the big picture.

[jlb524]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Yes. But that's not the point. The point is that this would result in personal drama without directing hate at someone or something. The Reapers are too big to hate, they just need to be fought. And while it would illustrate on a personal level that Cerberus is on the "wrong" side, they weren't responsible. It would also bring home that the Reapers are the greater "evil", a fact all too many people appear to forget, given how debates about Cerberus usually go.

I can't agree with this.

For one, I don't think the Reapers are too big to hate.  

I also don't think it matters if Cerberus was 'responsible' for whatever the Reapers are doing.  As far as we know now about ME3, they are an ally with the Reapers and I think that's the important thing to consider. 

[Jebel Krong]

MisterJB wrote...

We don't really know if she wants kids "so bad". We just know that she does.

we don't even know that - we only know that she wants to find out if she can even conceive (and that only based on the dodgy dossiers).

[goofyomnivore]

I would prefer Oriana to fade out of the plot personally. Oriana's presence shapes Miranda enough already. I wouldn't want more added on to it.

If Oriana must die, I would be in favor of it being collateral damage from the invasions. Because going after Oriana specifically in a fullscale invasion doesn't really make sense to me. I guess they could kidnap Oriana to mess with Miranda or sell to her father, but that seems pretty trivial considering the scale.

Modifié par strive, 10 juillet 2011 - 12:14 .

[jlb524]

/random rambling ahead

Since I've read Retribution I see two possible Cerberus factions forming in the wake of this Reaper attack.

The first involves the Illusive Man at the helm and they are aligned with the Reapers. They are comprised of his most loyal and 'brainwashed' followers. I'm not sure why they have aligned themselves with the Reapers or what they will get out of it...but it is what it is.

Then I think there will be an 'independent' faction comprised of Cerberus agents that were allowed more 'free will' by TIM...like Miranda and/or Kai Leng. I think they will rebel and choose to fight against the Reapers and refuse to go along with TIM's dealings with the Reapers. I'd imagine that Miranda would lead this faction.

So, I basically want to see a schism in Cerberus. One has TIM in control and the other Miranda.

[Arijharn]

Why is it that TIM is the one that automatically is aligned with the Reapers? Given everything that has seemingly happened to him, most notably the fact that he was a victim at some stage by some crazy Reaper device, and considering his actions during the course of ME2, I think he'd be the one in any schism within Cerberus to be against the Reapers.

This is because, as you know, he was completely against the Reapers during the events of ME2, and it makes no sense imo to retcon this as some clever plot within a plot to actively sabotage one of the Reaper's other plots.

[Ieldra]

jlb524 wrote...
Since I've read Retribution I see two possible Cerberus factions forming in the wake of this Reaper attack.

The first involves the Illusive Man at the helm and they are aligned with the Reapers. They are comprised of his most loyal and 'brainwashed' followers. I'm not sure why they have aligned themselves with the Reapers or what they will get out of it...but it is what it is.

Then I think there will be an 'independent' faction comprised of Cerberus agents that were allowed more 'free will' by TIM...like Miranda and/or Kai Leng. I think they will rebel and choose to fight against the Reapers and refuse to go along with TIM's dealings with the Reapers. I'd imagine that Miranda would lead this faction.

So, I basically want to see a schism in Cerberus. One has TIM in control and the other Miranda.

+1

That's exactly what I'm hoping for! Only I don't think Kai Leng will be in the independent faction. He's been established in the books as TIM's next right-hand man, and the reveals so far appear to paint him as an enemy. No hard evidence though.

This scenario would also set the stage for keeping Cerberus structures intact under Miranda after the end.

@Arijharn:
I agree somewhat. But who could you see leading a faction allied with the Reapers? I really can't see anyone doing such a thing without having been indoctrinated, so TIM - who's been in contact with a Reaper artifact that slowly might have gained influence on him - is the most likely candidate. And should the leader of the Reaper faction retain free will, it's still more likely it's TIM because no one else has such a mind for the devious and the radical and the ability to make it seem reasonable.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 juillet 2011 - 12:37 .

[jlb524]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Only I don't think Kai Leng will be in the independent faction. He's been established in the books as TIM's next right-hand man, and the reveals so far appear to paint him as an enemy. No hard evidence though.

I got the impression that Kai Leng was willing to throw Cerberus (TIM) under the bus to save his own hide.  Which is why I think he could become one of Miranda's agents in this scenario...which would make him more interesting than just being another villain character (IMO).

Modifié par jlb524, 10 juillet 2011 - 12:41 .

[naledgeborn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Ah well, but then they ruined it all by going overboard with the railroading. Having "Talk to X" pop up in your journal, of all things, as if that were some kind of task, made it all feel schematic to me. I felt as if working on a to-do list. That almost ruined the DA2 relationships for me. Also while there is more talk, what is there is much more shallow than ME2's dialogue. So....no, I don't think they should take DA2's way of doing things as an example.

I agree for the most part however I'm not fickle when praise is due. One of the *only* "innovations" that DA2 really got right was in the dialouge. Specifically companion interactions. If there were opportunites for Shepard to take a step back and hand Miranda the reigns over in a situation where she's particularly suited to handle it than I would gladly do so. Same for any other squadmate. If I want to intimidate someone Shepard could let Grunt or Jack off the leash. if I want to be convincingly diplomatic I'll let Mordin ramble on a debate of pragmatism vs idealism. And so on.

[goofyomnivore]

I thought Kai Leng was pretty loyal to TIM. Doesn't he save TIM's life on top of all the "messy" work he does for TIM.

I hate the idea of TIM being reduced to indoctrination. I've also pondered something similar to a Cerberus schism myself, but I had Kai Leng going rogue or indoctrinated. And TIM losing control of Cerberus from many different angles. Gillian causing commotion, Lazarus cell being captured by Alliance, Kai Leng etc. But the 10 "tie ins" you need to know, kind of hinted Kai Leng to be pretty loyal to TIM, so that kind of ruined a piece of my theory.

[jlb524]

According to the Wiki, Kai Leng will be sent against Shepard...so what I said is bollocks XD