82210 réponses à ce sujet

[naledgeborn]

jlb524 wrote...

I got the impression that Kai Leng was willing to throw Cerberus (TIM) under the bus to save his own hide.  Which is why I think he could become one of Miranda's agents in this scenario...which would make him more interesting than just being another villain character (IMO).

If you got to play KotOR back in 2003 I think Leng's role will be similar to Calo Nord/Darth Bandon.  A sub-boss with a mission to kill you if you didn't play KotOR. He'll be chasing Shepard across the galaxy and some how surviving everytime only to make the next encounters more and more challenging as the story progresses.

[Sebby]

There are some things DA2 did with regards to squadmates that I'd like to see like dialogue options where you ask for their opinion when dealing with someone or getting them to try to negotiate or execute someone.

[Sebby]

Arijharn wrote...

Why is it that TIM is the one that automatically is aligned with the Reapers? Given everything that has seemingly happened to him, most notably the fact that he was a victim at some stage by some crazy Reaper device, and considering his actions during the course of ME2, I think he'd be the one in any schism within Cerberus to be against the Reapers.

This is because, as you know, he was completely against the Reapers during the events of ME2, and it makes no sense imo to retcon this as some clever plot within a plot to actively sabotage one of the Reaper's other plots.

My belief is that they needed an enemy for people to draw an emotional response from as opposed to the Reapers who are essentially nothing more than a force of destruction like a natural disaster that illicits only apathy.

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...
@Arijharn:
I agree somewhat. But who could you see leading a faction allied with the Reapers? I really can't see anyone doing such a thing without having been indoctrinated, so TIM - who's been in contact with a Reaper artifact that slowly might have gained influence on him - is the most likely candidate. And should the leader of the Reaper faction retain free will, it's still more likely it's TIM because no one else has such a mind for the devious and the radical and the ability to make it seem reasonable.

Other than miscellaneous (and mysterious) faction leader B? After-all, Cerberus is supposed to be a three headed dog, perhaps if there were some other heads?

Honestly though; you've made a good point. But making TIM utterly unsalvagable is imo such a massive waste for a terrific character and making him just another Indoctrinated slave for the Reapers in a way just further validates most game players opinions on him and his motives, and just serves as another excuse to put a bullet in his head. For a character that was originally touted as representing both the best and worst aspects of humanity, it's a pretty ignoble way to go.

I sorta dislike the idea of any schism within Cerberus though; it just makes Cerberus look even more 'incompetent' and the reason why I object to it so much is that I want people's opinions on Cerberus challenged (although not necessarily changed).

But getting back to the point; I could see perhaps Kai Leng perhaps being twisted in a similar way to Saren, but even then that would just seem to rehashing old content.

[naledgeborn]

I've hoped that a schism is really the reason why Cerberus is attacking Shepard since the news broke..

Modifié par naledgeborn, 10 juillet 2011 - 01:00 .

[jlb524]

strive wrote...
I hate the idea of TIM being reduced to indoctrination. I've also pondered something similar to a Cerberus schism myself, but I had Kai Leng going rogue or indoctrinated. And TIM losing control of Cerberus from many different angles. Gillian causing commotion, Lazarus cell being captured by Alliance, Kai Leng etc. But the 10 "tie ins" you need to know, kind of hinted Kai Leng to be pretty loyal to TIM, so that kind of ruined a piece of my theory.

I think, regardless if TIM is indoctrinated or not, that there will be a schism.  Given that not all will want to support the Reapers and the destruction of the galaxy (and they aren't privy to TIM's actual motives) and the fact that Cerberus is disjointed and is comprised of cells that have no idea what the others are doing.   I can't imagine that it would be too difficult for someone like Miranda to influence a bunch of these other cells and convince them to hop aboard her new vision of the organization which involves trying to stop the Reapers and preserve human life in the galaxy.

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
@Arijharn:
I agree somewhat. But who could you see leading a faction allied with the Reapers? I really can't see anyone doing such a thing without having been indoctrinated, so TIM - who's been in contact with a Reaper artifact that slowly might have gained influence on him - is the most likely candidate. And should the leader of the Reaper faction retain free will, it's still more likely it's TIM because no one else has such a mind for the devious and the radical and the ability to make it seem reasonable.

Other than miscellaneous (and mysterious) faction leader B? After-all, Cerberus is supposed to be a three headed dog, perhaps if there were some other heads?

Honestly though; you've made a good point. But making TIM utterly unsalvagable is imo such a massive waste for a terrific character and making him just another Indoctrinated slave for the Reapers in a way just further validates most game players opinions on him and his motives, and just serves as another excuse to put a bullet in his head. For a character that was originally touted as representing both the best and worst aspects of humanity, it's a pretty ignoble way to go.

While I like the schism scenario, you have a point. In principle I'd like TIM to be a more grey character who actually has a point in some of the things he's doing. He's been that in ME2 after all, if not in the books. Only if he's allying himself with the Reapers, that would be hard to justify. Indoctrinating him would be an incredible waste as well, but in any other case they need to come up with a reason for allying with the Reapers that sounds reasonable to a moderately sane mind.  

I sorta dislike the idea of any schism within Cerberus though; it just makes Cerberus look even more 'incompetent' and the reason why I object to it so much is that I want people's opinions on Cerberus challenged (although not necessarily changed).

I would also like people's opinion of Cerberus to be challenged. I'm getting sick of the hate and would like nothing better that they actually have a reasonable point in what they do come ME3. But I find a schism quite natural after a radical decision like allying with the Reapers. Assuming, of course, that some cell leaders come to know of the new policy and aren't just all kept in the dark with the most potentially recalcitrant being indoctrinated.

Yes....things would be so much more interesting if there was a reasonable point to it. It would mean that we wouldn't know where Miranda stands, and it would mean that it's possible to agree with their policy without appearing completely insane. Only I can't see how that's possible, given the Reapers' stated goal. Working with them only to end up like the Collectors doesn't seem like a good idea.

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

This fanfic is really, really good. Also could explain why Miranda always defends Cerberus so relentlessly.

[Ieldra]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...
This fanfic is really, really good. Also could explain why Miranda always defends Cerberus so relentlessly.

It's an interesting premise. Only there are two things I dislike greatly:

(1) Miranda is conditioned to love Shepard instead as a side effect. I really hate that.
(2) The premise makes it appear as if mind control is the only way why one would ever support Cerberus.

In the end, Miranda loses all agency and independence in this story, before *and* after the "event". Not something I'd like to see in ME3.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 juillet 2011 - 01:41 .

[Arijharn]

Ieldra have you heard my theory before? I've posted it elsewhere about the place but I'm not sure if you or others here have read it.

Basically; the crux is this: Cerberus is working for the Reapers, but there is some 'power play' in regards to it. Cerberus strikes a 'bargain' with the Reapers (taking advantage of their vanity) by also taking advantage of Cerberus' own notoriety. The bargain is this; they will do 'everything' they can to capture/kill Shephard and his group of elite veterans if the Reapers slow their 'consumption' of Earth.

The reason they (Cerberus) could probably get away with this is largely simple; they take advantage of the laws of conservation of energy basically as well as even portray themselves as willing to perform tasks that make them seem like Saren and as eager dogsbodies.

Meanwhile; Cerberus makes a good showing of keeping faith with the the Reapers (by sending kill teams) but meanwhile they continue to send intelligence to Shephard in order for our hero to be 'forewarned' about these sort of attempts. The cold reasoning is that while the operatives deaths are unfortunate, it's infinitely preferable to the Reapers finishing up on Earth and possibly worse; separating into different fleets to attack major locations at once. By keeping them on Earth, Cerberus' true objective is to buy time for Shephard to rally the various races and secure the necessary technology to effectively combat the Reapers.

Then; when Shephard has his forces sufficiently prepared, Cerberus abruptly 'changes' allegiance and sends as much information about the Reapers to all races involved (reasoning their guns are useful too, and they may as well be effective guns) but may have slight differences depending on your choices in the games. Cerberus' military teams actively assist groups like Alliance marines etc and while may not be wholly under their chain of command, are still going to follow common sense etc.

[Ieldra]

@Arijharn:
That sounds really interesting. It would allow Cerberus to act according to their ideology - advancement and preservation of humanity. I like this theory. IIRC it's already confirmed that "indoctrination" is not all of the picture regarding Cerberus' behaviour. I'm looking forward to seeing that mystery resolved.

The only question is where would that leave Miranda?

[Vertigo_1]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Ah well, but then they ruined it all by going overboard with the railroading. Having "Talk to X" pop up in your journal, of all things, as if that were some kind of task, made it all feel schematic to me. I felt as if working on a to-do list. That almost ruined the DA2 relationships for me. Also while there is more talk, what is there is much more shallow than ME2's dialogue. So....no, I don't think they should take DA2's way of doing things as an example.

IMO a result of having each character at "the four corners of Kirkwall" and not close-by like the camp in DAO.
ME2 did that somewhat with Kelly (or EDI) telling you if a character wanted to speak to you (loyalty mission trigger)
But yeah I agree, I don't think they should go that route.  Besides it's two different dev teams.

Ieldra2 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote..
One thing to point out is there are more writers and editors working on ME3 than there ever were for ME1 or ME2.

Are there? How do you know that?

twitter.com/#!/macwalterslives/status/81769192881274880
"Fun Friday Fact - We currently have 8 writers and 2 full time editors working on #ME3. And, yes... That's a Mass Effect record."

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 10 juillet 2011 - 03:16 .

[Bio Addict]

I kind of doubt Miranda's loyalty mission will be one of those that has an impact on ME3 but I love the idea of Miri taking command of her own branch of a re-purposed Cerberus. I want to say that I'd be all in with her but I'm not sure how the VS would feel about that.

[Ieldra]

Bio Addict wrote...
I kind of doubt Miranda's loyalty mission will be one of those that has an impact on ME3 but I love the idea of Miri taking command of her own branch of a re-purposed Cerberus. I want to say that I'd be all in with her but I'm not sure how the VS would feel about that.

I'll attempt to convince Ashley or Kaidan, but if they won't see reason they can go to hell.

[Vertigo_1]

Mass Effect playing cards coming soon!
http://www.comicbook...rticle&id=33181
(Also new comic that talks about Cerberus attacking Omega; search for 'Invasion')

Funny how Shepard is the 'King' and Miranda is the 'Queen' of the same suite:lol:

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 10 juillet 2011 - 05:35 .

[GuitarShredUK]

Vertigo_1 wrote...



Mass Effect playing cards coming soon!
http://www.comicbook...rticle&id=33181
(Also new comic that talks about Cerberus attacking Omega; search for 'Invasion')

Funny how Shepard is the 'King' and Miranda is the 'Queen' of the same suite:lol:

Awesome! Yet another thing ME-related to order along with my Miranda pin-up T-shirt  - still waiting patiently for my non-LE Team lithograph to arrive too 

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I WANT THE MIRI CARD!!!!<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 10 juillet 2011 - 05:39 .

[GuitarShredUK]

^ Those ME playing cards along with a deck for DA2 come out the same day (supposedly) as the replica Normandy SR2 - November 16th.

[Ieldra]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
Funny how Shepard is the 'King' and Miranda is the 'Queen' of the same suite:lol:

Ha! They're acknowledging things here. King and Queen of Spades. Also note that in several classic card games, Spades is the highest suit.

[Vertigo_1]

http://twitter.com/#...115768062197760

"We're having a lot of crazy and awesome things at this year's #ComicCon at the @HiltonGaslamp. What do you hope to see/do there? #ME3 #DA2"

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 10 juillet 2011 - 05:52 .

[GuitarShredUK]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

http://twitter.com/#...115768062197760

"We're having a lot of crazy and awesome things at this year's #ComicCon at the @HiltonGaslamp. What do you hope to see/do there? #ME3 #DA2"

I hope David's question there was rhetorical...I would be all over the Bioware rooms with the ME3 playable demo etc, then taking a break to go to the Chuck signing on the Saturday, then the other many highlights of the convention itself along the way. This would all be if I could actually go of course, which I can't unfortunately due to country/time/distance/money issues .

I do have tickets for Eurogamer Expo in London in September now though, which ME3 will of course be at so I think I can wait 'til then to get my hands on it 

[ViSeiRa]

Right, so anyone of you guys are gonna be at ComicCon? we need an undercover agent for the thread to keep us posted

[jtav]

I've finally got around to doing my hopelessly besotted Renegade. She wants nothing more than to please Miranda--whether it's a good idea or not. Tentative decision list:

Grunt left in tank
Vido killed--mission comes first
Greybox kept
Genophage cure kept--better to keep it and not need it
Tali exonerated via persuade
Veetor given to Cerberus
Legion given to Cerberus
Aresh spared
Side with Miranda against Jack
Save Joram Talid
Shut down Overlord (stretch, but I have my limits)
Kill Morinth
All upgrades purchased
Crew dead due to lack of escort
Miranda does biotic bubble
Destroy base

Thoughts?

[Ieldra]

ViSeirA wrote...
Right, so anyone of you guys are gonna be at ComicCon? we need an undercover agent for the thread to keep us posted

Not me...would take me 1000 Euros to get there. But I'll be at GamesCom in August..

[ViSeiRa]

@jtav: looks reasonable, the only thing I find somehow inconsistent is saving Joram Talid... he was campaigning publicly as anti-human and we get the chance to kill him without causing an incident or a formal investigation, all my renegades kill him.

Modifié par ViSeirA, 10 juillet 2011 - 06:42 .