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[Ieldra]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
Posting this here so that people are aware:

ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread - Spoilers Allowed
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10098213

Thanks for posting that. That thread's worth posting in since you can reasonably expect Bioware to read it.

[Mr Plow]

I have no interest in watching any of the death scenes and it's irritating that she won't say those '3 little words' unless she dies. Mind you that ranks pretty low in the wider scheme of the myriad of other things that were disappointing

So for me Miranda joins Bastila and probably Morrigan in going out in an unsatisfying manner.

[Ieldra]

What happened with Bastila? I've played KotOR, but it was long ago. I vaguely recall it was satisfactory. I also didn't mind Morrigan, since there was hope for the future.

[Mr Plow]

Ieldra2 wrote...

What happened with Bastila? I've played KotOR, but it was long ago. I vaguely recall it was satisfactory. I also didn't mind Morrigan, since there was hope for the future.

Well the bad taste for Bastila for me is based on the recent novel Revan Ieldra

*spoilers follow

She is marginalised in the novel only playing a small part.  Depicted as clingy and a little jealous of The Exile from KOTOR 2 and shows nothing of her previous courage/skills.  She is almost an adornment/decoration.  And the novel ends with her decades later as an old woman having raised a successful son on her own but deeply sad and pining/dreaming of Revan who never returned having been imprisoned by The Emperor


end spoilers*


Morrigan is my favorite of the 3 - a wonderful character for me but Witch Hunt was just shameless false advertising.  Albeit it was nice to see The Warden and her together again I doubt we will see anymore of that particular relationship in the future

Modifié par Mr Plow, 17 mars 2012 - 11:44 .

[Ieldra]

Oh my....better I not read that novel. Wasn't it by Karpyshyn? I swear that man can't write without turning everything into a cliché storm.

I can't complain about Morrigan though. In-game, I could respect her decision that her project was more important than love and I wouldn't have it any other way. DAO left me with a "We'll see" attitude and hope for the future and Witch Hunt, while horrible as a DLC, brought some closure. DA2's Isabela, another well-made character, I only couldn't finish the game where I romanced her because I got sick of DA2's combat and exploration.

Miranda is my favorite of the four but right from the start of ME2, I've constantly felt that I had to fight the writers who wanted to turn her into something I wouldn't like anymore.

[jtav]

I have to admit I was almost surprised we didn't get a pregnancy. I would have lived with it in exchange for a more active Miranda. I now believe the dossier existed to get players to dump her.

[ThomGau]

And for some people it succeeded.
Anyway, I'm glad the dossier isn't brought up at all, though it shows lack of coherence () in writing.

[sa55y_cl1k]

jtav wrote...

I still think it's silly. Breaking up with any character shouldn't kill them. I like Miranda. I like Cortez. I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to romance him while keeping her alive.

I will say the break up is some of the best acting in the game. Props to Strahovski and the animators.

Totally agree!!!
All elements combined, after initially deciding to break up with Miranda and viewing the result, I felt like such a freakin' DOG....Reloaded from quick save point and reaffirmed the relationship...
But this was all for nought, as I failed to give her the info on Kai Leng and resulted in her tragic death!

Oh, I am fortune's fool! Was so floored...

Dramatically speaking though, it was brilliantly written and executed! 

[jtav]

I'd actually borrow from Jack for a failure scenario. Miranda is captured in a failed attempt to infiltrate Sanctuary. Lawson's deal was for both his daughters, so you meet her in the final room, implanted and docile toward Henry. Henry siccs her on you, and a boss fight ensues. If romanced, she comes back to herself as she dies in your arms.

[Funker Shepard]

jtav wrote...

I have to admit I was almost surprised we didn't get a pregnancy. I would have lived with it in exchange for a more active Miranda. I now believe the dossier existed to get players to dump her.

Fully agree. Until the end the Awesome of the game kept me from being too unhappy with Miranda's tiny role, but having since progressed to the Anger phase, this is annoying me quite a lot, too.

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

I have to admit I was almost surprised we didn't get a pregnancy. I would have lived with it in exchange for a more active Miranda. I now believe the dossier existed to get players to dump her.

Very glad we didn't get a pregnancy and agree dossier was attempt to show Miranda should be dumped.
Also the  deleted dialogue with Anderson, all about Shep having kids. So glad that was cut given as i doubt i'd have  been given the option to say 'no and by the way Miranda can't apparently'

[atheelogos]

flemm wrote...

Td1984 wrote...

So if you play as FShep, you can't save her?

You can affirm the relationship, then over-write the flag with another romance to bypass this.

Really? 

[atheelogos]

jtav wrote...

I still think it's silly. Breaking up with any character shouldn't kill them.

She's heartbroken. In that state of mind she got sloppy and overlooked things and those oversights ended up costing her her life.

Wouldn't be the first time this has happened. In the game world or the real one.

Modifié par atheelogos, 17 mars 2012 - 02:04 .

[atheelogos]

ThomGau wrote...

And for some people it succeeded.
Anyway, I'm glad the dossier isn't brought up at all, though it shows lack of coherence () in writing.

I like to think Liara lied about that to get Shep back for herself. 

I mean come on they can rebuild sheps entire body, but can't fix Miranda's little problem? And how does she have 20th century medical problem at the end of the 22nd? Makes no sense.

[Mr Plow]

It is easy to get emotionally invested in such characters. (I mean see the depression thread elsewhere on the forum for folks really down over ME3)

I remember the most emotionally affecting moment for me playing a game wasn't a death or love scene etc but came in KOTOR when you confront Bastila after she has turned to the Dark Side. It just stunned and upset me. Sounds silly I know but such is the power of storytelling.

I don't think I will have such an attachment again after the way things turned out in ME3.


Miranda - probably dead in many playthroughs after ME3

Miranda - on a devastated Earth having lost Shepard and unable to reach Oriana

Modifié par Mr Plow, 17 mars 2012 - 02:17 .

[atheelogos]

So question.

Does anyone here like the idea of her dying to save the one innocent thing in her life? I kinda see it as an effort to redeem all her past questionable actions?

[ThomGau]

atheelogos wrote...

I like to think Liara lied about that to get Shep back for herself. 

I mean come on they can rebuild sheps entire body, but can't fix Miranda's little problem? And how does she have 20th century medical problem at the end of the 22nd? Makes no sense.

Assuming Liara was romanced in ME1, it could be a headcanon interpretation. She seems rather jealous if you talk to her about that in Shepard's cabin.
And indeed as previously debated by many of us, the infertility in itself makes no sense, just an irrelevant reason to dump her.

About her dying if dumped, in my opinion, it is logical, as you said, this may affect her performance and behaviour while fighting but it is also rather silly.

Modifié par ThomGau, 17 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[Mr Plow]

atheelogos wrote...

So question.

Does anyone here like the idea of her dying to save the one innocent thing in her life? I kinda see it as an effort to redeem all her past questionable actions?

nope


No to be fair it is a theme that  i could understand folks liking and many would find the redemption/sacrifice themes fitting. 

Not my cup of tea though


I was mildly surprised that she stated she was the second in command of Cereberus though -yes I know she was one of the few who saw TIM in person - but the No2 ? She really was at the very top fof the group

Makes it slightly hard to immerse in a way that she is walking around the Citadel looking exactly the same when she is one of the most wanted outlaws in the galaxy

[jtav]

atheelogos wrote...

So question.

Does anyone here like the idea of her dying to save the one innocent thing in her life? I kinda see it as an effort to redeem all her past questionable actions?

I'd say that's exactly what most of us didn't want. Such a Miranda deserves to die--for being a mockery of the real one. It's not even redemption. Redemption is saying "I've done wrong. How do I atone?" Miranda's past doesn't even register as a motive.

As for why breaking up leading to death is silly: how many of you left a ME1 LI for Miranda? How many of you argued cheating consequences shouldn't be drastic? Miranda shouldn't die because I want a more content-filled romance.

[atheelogos]

ThomGau wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

I like to think Liara lied about that to get Shep back for herself. 

I mean come on they can rebuild sheps entire body, but can't fix Miranda's little problem? And how does she have 20th century medical problem at the end of the 22nd? Makes no sense.

 it could be a headcanon interpretation.

it is  lol

[atheelogos]

messed that post up

Modifié par atheelogos, 17 mars 2012 - 02:54 .

[atheelogos]

"Makes it slightly hard to immerse in a way that she is walking around the Citadel looking exactly the same when she is one of the most wanted outlaws in the galaxy"

I don't think so. She's really only a threat to TIM. Plus the council races seemed happy enough to accept all the ex Cerberus personel they could get to help with their weapon.

"is one of the most wanted outlaws in the galaxy " Again I don't think this mattered much in ME3. Evidenced by Aria.

[ThomGau]

jtav wrote...

As for why breaking up leading to death is silly: how many of you left a ME1 LI for Miranda? How many of you argued cheating consequences shouldn't be drastic? Miranda shouldn't die because I want a more content-filled romance.

Well, personally, I haven't left a ME1 LI for her, none of them were really appealing to me back then. Though I did romanced them out of curiosity in some of my saves wich were forgotten afterwards.

What bothers me is that breaking-up with Ashley (kinda) on Horizon or with Liara don't really have drastic consequences and you can still have them back in ME3, though, if you do break up with Miranda at the begining of ME3, to come back to your ME1 LI (or a new romance), it dooms her.
And something tells me that quite a few people did or will do that since Miranda isn't a squadmate anymore and is far from having the same role she had in ME2.
So, a lot of people will have a dead Miranda in their games, and there's nothing to prevent that from happening, the illusion of choice.

On Miranda's death subject, I'm glad there's no "torture to death by Kai Leng" scenario, as we once speculated. It would only have nourished sadistic thoughts from Miranda's haters.

Modifié par ThomGau, 17 mars 2012 - 03:28 .

[HectorB]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Yes breaking up with Miranda automatically cause her death regardless if you warn her about cereal man and give her the alliance resources

Thanks for clearing that up. That kinda sucks though. Oh well...

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
 I now believe the dossier existed to get players to dump her.

Yeah, probably. It felt/feels like an attempt to dehumanize her, basically. And it has no purpose in ME3, except perhaps as part of one of the death scenes.