82210 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Not dehumanize, but having casual sex and not being able to have children is supposed to be a turnoff for men. And a lot of people did dump her.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Not dehumanize, but having casual sex and not being able to have children is supposed to be a turnoff for men.

Sure, but the overall tone and content tend toward the idea that this is not a "real" person, etc. So dehumanize as well, I think.

Modifié par flemm, 17 mars 2012 - 04:18 .

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

Not dehumanize, but having casual sex and not being able to have children is supposed to be a turnoff for men. And a lot of people did dump her.

ohh damn i mustn't be a real man then.

[flemm]

wright1978 wrote...
ohh damn i mustn't be a real man then.

Well, it's more of a cliché or whatever, but it's probably what they were going for.

[CuseGirl]

ThomGau wrote...
Assuming Liara was romanced in ME1, it could be a headcanon interpretation. She seems rather jealous if you talk to her about that in Shepard's cabin.
And indeed as previously debated by many of us, the infertility in itself makes no sense, just an irrelevant reason to dump her.

I hope I cut the quote pyramid properly lolll....

I don't think the infertility thing was a reason for players to dump Miranda (so they could generate saves where Miranda dies). I think it was to avoid an accusation of Miranda being Mary Sue (she's beautiful, she's smart, she's bad-ass with a gun, she'll live 'til she's 120, she's got an accent, etc). She's nearly perfect....but she's infertile. And in society and really in biology, an organisms worth boils down to the ability to replicate itself. So despite being all that an a bag of chips, she can't open the bag. There won't be any mini-Miris or MiriShep hybrids running around after you save the galaxy. It's unfortunate because Miranda and Shep deserve it but it is what it is.

I also wish I could head canon it away but I just can't. Once I read that line in her dossier, it became "real", Miranda can't have children unless somewhere in the ME universe, they devise a way for her to do so.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Miri's Dossier made me sad, but I would NEVER dump Miri. I would NEVER dump Women in Real Life either. Why would other men dump Women for only having casual sex and for not having the ability to bare Children? You should stand by the Woman's side and be there for her. I'm with Miri EVERY Step of the Way:wub:.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 17 mars 2012 - 04:28 .

[flemm]

CuseGirl wrote...
I don't think the infertility thing was a reason for players to dump Miranda (so they could generate saves where Miranda dies). I think it was to avoid an accusation of Miranda being Mary Sue (she's beautiful, she's smart, she's bad-ass with a gun, she'll live 'til she's 120, she's got an accent, etc). She's nearly perfect....but she's infertile. And in society and really in biology, an organisms worth boils down to the ability to replicate itself. So despite being all that an a bag of chips, she can't open the bag.

The infertility itself could actually become an interesting part of the character for a variety of reasons, but, when you combine it with the rest of the dossier and the fact that there is no follow-up in ME3 at all outside of maybe a reference in one of the death scenes, the other hypothesis feels more plausible.

Really, she should be able to (1) cure herself or (2) have children by other means, with (2) probably being the more interesting choice, given her own origins. That could have been a really interesting direction to take, but it doesn't seem to have been considered from that angle.

Modifié par flemm, 17 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[atheelogos]

jtav wrote...

Not dehumanize, but having casual sex and not being able to have children is supposed to be a turnoff for men. And a lot of people did dump her.

Yeah I'm not gonna lie I'm still torn on if I should break up with her or not.

[Ieldra]

I am happy to report that the modded flashback file works perfectly and that Cyrus Shepard has seen his beloved Miranda before going into the light.

He will be back, since my hand of fate is gentler than Bioware's, but neither of them knows it at this time.

[atheelogos]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Why would other men dump Women for only having casual sex and for not having the ability to bare Children?

You answered your own question. Good for you  lol

[Ieldra]

atheelogos wrote...

ThomGau wrote...
And for some people it succeeded.
Anyway, I'm glad the dossier isn't brought up at all, though it shows lack of coherence () in writing.

I like to think Liara lied about that to get Shep back for herself. 

I mean come on they can rebuild sheps entire body, but can't fix Miranda's little problem? And how does she have 20th century medical problem at the end of the 22nd? Makes no sense.

That's what I've always said. It should be child's play to cure that with the technology of the ME universe. And that's what would happen in my headcanon, except for the moment I have more important matters to deal with.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

atheelogos wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Why would other men dump Women for only having casual sex and for not having the ability to bare Children?

You answered your own question. Good for you  lol

It's a stupid reason to dump someone. If you truly Love a woman, you would never leave her! You would stand by her side and Love her, NO MATTER WHAT!

NO-MATTER-WHAT!

[flemm]

It's the kind of thing that just makes me dislike the people writing this stuff, since it's so obviously shoe-horned in as basically a smear campaign (in essence).

I do think the infertility could actually be turned into something interesting, but that just proves it's hard to screw up Miranda as a character, no matter how hard you try.

[jtav]

I'm still trying to figure out how reproduction would even work in my chosen ending, and Matt is basically a robot these days, so infertility isn't on my radar. If they want a child, they'll build one.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
If they want a child, they'll build one.

Bingo

Which is of course what happened with Miranda, essentially, on the level of her genetic make-up. And what she did for/with Shepard via the Lazarus Project.

So, you can actually turn that aspect into something interesting. But it doesn't seem likely it was intended that way.

Modifié par flemm, 17 mars 2012 - 04:49 .

[ThomGau]

Agreed flemm, it could be turned into something interesting, if only it was at least brought up once (and if it could be cured).
I think her inability to give birth may influence her self-esteem problems.

Modifié par ThomGau, 17 mars 2012 - 04:51 .

[Skullheart]

Why would people dump her,,,

- She was presented in ME2 as the hot girl (cheat bait).
- Her dossier makes her look like socially incompetent, a sex predator, and can't have childs.
- They converted Ashley into the new hot girl (new hairstyle, new boobs, botox injections).
- And miranda lack of screen tells a lot.

She was created to dump her and have a deepest relation with the ME1 LI. But I didn't like them in ME1, so my Shepard will always stay loyal to Miranda, and will fulfill his promise one way or the other.

[atheelogos]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Why would other men dump Women for only having casual sex and for not having the ability to bare Children?

You answered your own question. Good for you  lol

It's a stupid reason to dump someone. If you truly Love a woman, you would never leave her! You would stand by her side and Love her, NO MATTER WHAT!

NO-MATTER-WHAT!

Love conquers all huh? It's a nice sentiment, but not at all based in reality. If that were the case people who fall in love would never fall out of it. And we all know that's not the case.

Breaking up with her for that reason is no different than breaking up with another girl who has Aids if children are the end goal.

[atheelogos]

jtav wrote...

I'm still trying to figure out how reproduction would even work in my chosen ending, and Matt is basically a robot these days, so infertility isn't on my radar. If they want a child, they'll build one.

I don't know why I never thought of that. Have an artificially made child. And make sure while building it it doesn't have Miranda's problem. It's perfect!

To bad the endings wont allow for anything happy..... 

[wright1978]

Disappointed we couldn't discuss the whole infertility thing and have various options to reply to her.
"Who cares. Me and you against the world, we just need eachother"
or
"You did the impossible in raising me from the dead. Let's make lightning strike twice."

Instead we got the idiotic control chip convo. Guess so non romanced Miranda wouldn't miss out on content.

[atheelogos]

"While we cannot firmly attribute the cause of the benign neoplasm to the irregularity in your genetic makeup, we can confirm that the progressive damage renders you unable to conceive a child."

Another way to fix this is to simple have someone else carry the child to term. Either a real person or use an artificial uterus.

From the above description it sounds like her eggs are fine. 

Modifié par atheelogos, 17 mars 2012 - 05:03 .

[flemm]

Well, beyond that, it doesn't fit the character as originally presented. She's not socially awkward at all (nor will she be again), she's had a previous relationship with Jacob, which was perfectly normal and healthy, a person she still cares about after the fact. Plus the infertility thing out of nowhere. All presented in a dossier with little context, no interaction with the character, and... it's never discussed again.

So it's obviously designed to get a wtf? reaction, and understandably so. It's not even the content.

It's the sense that the character has been lying to you. In essence the dossier is written to give the impression that Miranda is not who you thought she was.

Modifié par flemm, 17 mars 2012 - 05:05 .

[atheelogos]

wright1978 wrote...

Disappointed we couldn't discuss the whole infertility thing and have various options to reply to her.
"Who cares. Me and you against the world, we just need eachother"
or
"You did the impossible in raising me from the dead. Let's make lightning strike twice."

Instead we got the idiotic control chip convo. Guess so non romanced Miranda wouldn't miss out on content.

Agreed. That would have been a far more powerful conversation to have.

[atheelogos]

flemm wrote...
It's the sense that the character has been lying to you. In essence the dossier is written to give the impression that Miranda is not who you thought she was.

Gives some credit to one of my theories that Liara was lying to Shep, so he'd come back.

[jtav]

Except would be OOC for Liara. Not to mention the dossier isn't romance exclusive.