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[o Ventus]

flemm wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I was honestly thinking EDI was the sort of "fallback" option for a Miranda-dead scenario, similar to how you get a generic geth VI on Rannoch if Legion is dead.

Well, it *could* work that way. It doesn't in actual fact, though it's hard to say how much of this is due to the crunch hitting around that time.

Why not (assuming hypotheticals)?

It wouldn't be terribly hard to program. Just replace character models and have Yvonne record EDI's lines.

[o Ventus]

enayasoul wrote...

I've noticed after going back to do a few scenes with different characters and seeing the romance version vs the non-romance... they are almost identical except for a line or two that was changed. Same thing could apply if they wanted to go that route. I was wondering about all these "dates" the character had...well they did happen but most of them were just friends meeting up andtalking.

Was anyone else hoping to give Miranda a gift bought from the hospital vendor instead of it being just used for the VS. That would have been sweet if Shepard gave Miranda a rose.

I was disappointed by the gifts. Not because I dislike Ashley (Who always survives in my games), but because they're VS exclusive.

Not just Miranda, but all of the non-Liara and non-VS romances felt... weak, for lack of a better term. Hell, Thane and Jacob-mancers got all but shafted.

[redBadger14]

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

The Normandy visit would be hard to integrate, with Miranda being ex-Cerberus and all. I would settle for a meeting in a nice location....somewhere. I agree about the rest.

Why ?

I can have on board :
- an AI (who has full control of the Normandy)
- the SB with her network
- ambassadors of many species (even a geth !), 
- some ex-cerberus crew
I also have the possibility to tell the VS to get out of my ship.

But I can't have a visit in my quarters of my former XO who saved my life, help me to destroy the collectors, proved she can be trusted, and is chased by Cerberus top assassin ?

No, I agree with Ieldra. 

Can't remember if the message was on Liara's terminal or if it was on the Spectre terminal, but you receive it after Sanctuary and the message reveals that Miranda led some strikes against some Cerberus bases. The Alliance acknowedged it but did not condone Miranda's actions and conveyed that they hope her operations would remain "under the radar" and that their paths would not cross.

Miranda may be ex-Cerberus, but the Alliance does not hold her in any high regard whatsoever because she was The Illusive Man's former 2IC. Miranda would not be allowed anywhere near the Normandy. In fact, it's even assumed the Alliance is still looking for Miranda and wish to bring her to trial for being heavily involved in Cerberus activities. The entire Cerberus crew on the Normandy from ME2 was under investigation. Miranda would be the Alliance's biggest "target" in these investigations. Just look what happened to Ken and Gabby; they needed Spectre clearance to be placed back on the Normandy.

And to address your points of "we can have these people on the Normandy but not Miranda" ...

-EDI was unshackled by Joker and was loyal to Shepard and Joker, and proved to be an asset to the Alliance from the get-go and the Alliance could not connect EDI to having strong loyalties with Cerberus. That and I do believe Joker led the Alliance to believe EDI was a VI not an AI.
-The Shadow Broker (Liara) was asked by Hackett to assist with the Prothean artifact on Mars. Liara was also an ally of the Alliance prior to ME2 and ME3.
-Ambassadors needed to unite the races and win the war. Yes, including geth.
-Gabby and Ken, simple engineers that likely had no strong loyalties to Cerberus.

Modifié par redBadger14, 20 mars 2012 - 05:29 .

[flemm]

o Ventus wrote...

It wouldn't be terribly hard to program. Just replace character models and have Yvonne record EDI's lines.

Well, I don't think you would need to have Miranda *replace* EDI, but rather have them both contribute and Miranda provide something new.

As to what plans they had, I'm not sure. There are pieces of the role in the game that don't really *fit* all that well with what we have. The first dialogue foreshadows the idea of Miranda joining up pretty strongly, and then there's the fact that she is now Cerberus' former 2IC for seemingly no reason at all.

So, I'm not sure, and anyway, these things are always in flux.

[Melra]

redBadger14 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

The Normandy visit would be hard to integrate, with Miranda being ex-Cerberus and all. I would settle for a meeting in a nice location....somewhere. I agree about the rest.

Why ?

I can have on board :
- an AI (who has full control of the Normandy)
- the SB with her network
- ambassadors of many species (even a geth !), 
- some ex-cerberus crew
I also have the possibility to tell the VS to get out of my ship.

But I can't have a visit in my quarters of my former XO who saved my life, help me to destroy the collectors, proved she can be trusted, and is chased by Cerberus top assassin ?

No, I agree with Ieldra. 

Can't remember if the message was on Liara's terminal or if it was on the Spectre terminal, but you receive it after Sanctuary and the message reveals that Miranda led some strikes against some Cerberus bases. The Alliance acknowedged it but did not condone Miranda's actions and conveyed that they hope her operations would remain "under the radar" and that their paths would not cross.

Miranda may be ex-Cerberus, but the Alliance does not hold her in any high regard whatsoever because she was The Illusive Man's former 2IC. Miranda would not be allowed anywhere near the Normandy. In fact, it's even assumed the Alliance is still looking for Miranda and wish to bring her to trial for being heavily involved in Cerberus activities. The entire Cerberus crew on the Normandy from ME2 was under investigation. Miranda would be the Alliance's biggest "target" in these investigations. Just look what happened to Ken and Gabby; they needed Spectre clearance to be placed back on the Normandy.

And to address your points of "we can have these people on the Normandy but not Miranda" ...

-EDI was unshackled by Joker and was loyal to Shepard and Joker, and proved to be an asset to the Alliance from the get-go and the Alliance could not connect EDI to having strong loyalties with Cerberus.
-The Shadow Broker (Liara) was asked by Hackett to assist with the Prothean artifact on Mars. Liara was also an ally of the Alliance prior to ME2 and ME3.
-Ambassadors needed to unite the races and win the war. Yes, including geth.
-Gabby and Ken, simple engineers that likely had no strong loyalties to Cerberus.

Meh at that point in the game Alliance has no say over Shepard. He is the reason why the other fleets are coming to join him, -he-. Not the Alliance. He has far more power than any other human. In humanity related matters Hackett would probably have more supporters, but still if Shepard would've had the option to want to say that he wants Miranda onboard Normandy, there wouldn't have been any reasonable way to stop him doing going through with it.

Modifié par Melrache, 20 mars 2012 - 05:32 .

[Vertigo_1]

They let ex-Cerberus peeps work on the Crucible (Jacob, Brynn)...so I can't see them refusing help from the ex second in command.

[o Ventus]

flemm wrote...

Well, I don't think you would need to have Miranda *replace* EDI, but rather have them both contribute and Miranda provide something new.

Whatever floats your boat. I was just hoping for *something*. The glaring lack of *something* is what perturbs me.

[flemm]

o Ventus wrote...
The glaring lack of *something* is what perturbs me.

Agreed. I am equally perturbed

[o Ventus]

Melrache wrote...

Meh at that point in the game Alliance has no say over Shepard. He is the reason why the other fleets are coming to join him, -he-. Not the Alliance. He has far more power than any other human. In humanity related matters Hackett would probably have more supporters, but still if Shepard would've had the option to want to say that he wants Miranda onboard Normandy, there wouldn't have been any reasonable way to stop him doing going through with it.

This. You would think that the Alliance (Or at least Hackett) would show a little faith in the word of the man (Or woman) who's saved the galaxy 3 times. Especially if that man (or woman) trusts someone like Miranda implicitly (And vice-versa). Protocol isn't as highly held, with the whole "interplanetary extermination" thing happening.

Modifié par o Ventus, 20 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
 You also forget: if a DLC had significant romance content for one character, then it will be less interesting for the majority who didn't romance that character.

Lair of the Shadow Broker.

Granted, Lair could be played by everyone since Liara just won't die no matter how much people try but, obviously, that DLC was tailored primarely for her fans.
They did it before, they could do it again. Though I also don't believe it will happen unless it's another Liara DLC.


http://polarityplus....ss effect&qo=28

[flemm]

o Ventus wrote...

This. You would think that the Alliance (Or at least Hackett) would show a little faith in the word of the man (Or woman) who's saved the galaxy 3 times. Especially if that man (or woman) trusts someone like Miranda implicitly.

Yes, and Miranda specifically was part of the team that took down the Collectors and led the one that resurrected Shepard. Plus the intel she can provide on Cerberus.

So, whatever, it's fiction. The story can be written either way. But it would be extremely easy to create a situation where Miranda's presence on the Normandy was feasible and desirable.

[redBadger14]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

They let ex-Cerberus peeps work on the Crucible (Jacob, Brynn)...so I can't see them refusing help from the ex second in command.

Jacob and Brynn were not high up in Cerberus ranks compared to Miranda. Plus, Jacob and Brynn's base were attacked by Cerberus, giving the Alliance plenty of reason to accept their assistance.

o Ventus wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Meh at that point in the game Alliance has no say over Shepard. He is the reason why the other fleets are coming to join him, -he-. Not the Alliance. He has far more power than any other human. In humanity related matters Hackett would probably have more supporters, but still if Shepard would've had the option to want to say that he wants Miranda onboard Normandy, there wouldn't have been any reasonable way to stop him doing going through with it.

This. You would think that the Alliance (Or at least Hackett) would show a little faith in the word of the man (Or woman) who's saved the galaxy 3 times. Especially if that man (or woman) trusts someone like Miranda implicitly.

 
Even Hackett can't sway Alliance politics. Even with Shepard's word, the Alliance nor Hackett are actually aware of Miranda's status, whether she is totally removed from Cerberus activities or not. That is why they want to bring her in for an investigation, possibly a trial. Besides, Miranda was making herself too scarce for Shepard to request her help.

[Melra]

redBadger14 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

They let ex-Cerberus peeps work on the Crucible (Jacob, Brynn)...so I can't see them refusing help from the ex second in command.

Jacob and Brynn were not high up in Cerberus ranks compared to Miranda. Plus, Jacob and Brynn's base were attacked by Cerberus, giving the Alliance plenty of reason to accept their assistance.

o Ventus wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Meh at that point in the game Alliance has no say over Shepard. He is the reason why the other fleets are coming to join him, -he-. Not the Alliance. He has far more power than any other human. In humanity related matters Hackett would probably have more supporters, but still if Shepard would've had the option to want to say that he wants Miranda onboard Normandy, there wouldn't have been any reasonable way to stop him doing going through with it.

This. You would think that the Alliance (Or at least Hackett) would show a little faith in the word of the man (Or woman) who's saved the galaxy 3 times. Especially if that man (or woman) trusts someone like Miranda implicitly.

 
Even Hackett can't sway Alliance politics. Even with Shepard's word, the Alliance nor Hackett are actually aware of Miranda's status, whether she is totally removed from Cerberus activities or not. That is why they want to bring her in for an investigation, possibly a trial. Besides, Miranda was making herself too scarce for Shepard to request her help.

Brynn seemed high enough to have the VI on the main base of CB voiced by her. The politics don't really matter, the station is gone the system is in ruins, everything has to be rebuilt after the war is over. It holds no weight anymore.

[o Ventus]

redBadger14 wrote...

Jacob and Brynn were not high up in Cerberus ranks compared to Miranda. Plus, Jacob and Brynn's base were attacked by Cerberus, giving the Alliance plenty of reason to accept their assistance.

Brynn (and the other scientists) were some of Cerberus' finest. They were working on the remains of the Collector Base. No telling what they could share with the Alliance. Jacob also headed security for Lazarus, and later got romantically involved with Brynn. He should know a thing or two about what they're doing.

Even Hackett can't sway Alliance politics. Even with Shepard's word, the Alliance nor Hackett are actually aware of Miranda's status, whether she is totally removed from Cerberus activities or not. That is why they want to bring her in for an investigation, possibly a trial. Besides, Miranda was making herself too scarce for Shepard to request her help.

The letter about Miranda on Liara's terminal, plus the final talk over vidcomm in London.

[flemm]

redBadger14 wrote...

Jacob and Brynn were not high up in Cerberus ranks compared to Miranda. Plus, Jacob and Brynn's base were attacked by Cerberus, giving the Alliance plenty of reason to accept their assistance.

Miranda is being actively hunted by Cerberus. So, it's similar.

redBadger14 wrote...
Even Hackett can't sway Alliance politics. Even with Shepard's word, the Alliance nor Hackett are actually aware of Miranda's status, whether she is totally removed from Cerberus activities or not. That is why they want to bring her in for an investigation, possibly a trial.

Doesn't really matter. Alliance brass might still want to investigate Miranda and even Shepard himself (in fact, they did). But in the current circumstances, where everyone is basically facing extinction, other considerations would take priority, and Shepard has never been obligated to follow the wishes of the Alliance brass anyway.

Modifié par flemm, 20 mars 2012 - 05:52 .

[Vertigo_1]

redBadger14 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

They let ex-Cerberus peeps work on the Crucible (Jacob, Brynn)...so I can't see them refusing help from the ex second in command.

Jacob and Brynn were not high up in Cerberus ranks compared to Miranda. Plus, Jacob and Brynn's base were attacked by Cerberus, giving the Alliance plenty of reason to accept their assistance.

So?
They left before Cerberus attacked...Brynn is a senior member of Cerberus.  Hackett called it a win against Cerberus when you manage to get everyone out of there (and now working on the Crucible, etc)

And Shepard is a Spectre, so he can overide folks who don't like Miranda on the ship (again she left after ME2...)

Batarians can also join the fleet that is going to retake Earth.
With the entire galaxy at threat, you take any help what you can get.

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 20 mars 2012 - 05:56 .

[redBadger14]

o Ventus wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

Jacob and Brynn were not high up in Cerberus ranks compared to Miranda. Plus, Jacob and Brynn's base were attacked by Cerberus, giving the Alliance plenty of reason to accept their assistance.

Brynn (and the other scientists) were some of Cerberus' finest. They were working on the remains of the Collector Base. No telling what they could share with the Alliance. Jacob also headed security for Lazarus, and later got romantically involved with Brynn. He should know a thing or two about what they're doing.

Even Hackett can't sway Alliance politics. Even with Shepard's word, the Alliance nor Hackett are actually aware of Miranda's status, whether she is totally removed from Cerberus activities or not. That is why they want to bring her in for an investigation, possibly a trial. Besides, Miranda was making herself too scarce for Shepard to request her help.

The letter about Miranda on Liara's terminal, plus the final talk over vidcomm in London.

Even so, the Alliance would focus their attention on Miranda, who would have the same information if not more than Jacob. And again, the Cerberus attack showed that they were doing something Cerberus wouldn't allow. 

Alliance were not aware of her status prior to the message on Liara's terminal. After the message, looks like they will cease trying to chase her down, but they still take an unsupportive stance on Miranda's activities. 

[o Ventus]

flemm wrote...

But in the current circumstances, where everyone is basically facing extinction, other considerations would take priority, and Shepard has never been obligated to follow the wishes of the Alliance brass anyway.

Oh, this too.

Another thing... For all that it counts (at least a bit), Shepard is a Spectre. If he's able to authorize the use of geth comm parts for C-sec via the press of a button, he should be able to say "Hey guys, lay off Miranda. She's alright. She's being hunted by Cerberus as well, just give her a chance".

[redBadger14]

flemm wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

Jacob and Brynn were not high up in Cerberus ranks compared to Miranda. Plus, Jacob and Brynn's base were attacked by Cerberus, giving the Alliance plenty of reason to accept their assistance.

Miranda is being actively hunted by Cerberus. So, it's similar.

redBadger14 wrote...
Even Hackett can't sway Alliance politics. Even with Shepard's word, the Alliance nor Hackett are actually aware of Miranda's status, whether she is totally removed from Cerberus activities or not. That is why they want to bring her in for an investigation, possibly a trial.

Doesn't really matter. Alliance brass might still want to investigate Miranda and even Shepard himself (in fact, they did). But in the current circumstances, where everyone is basically facing extinction, other considerations would take priority, and Shepard has never been obligated to follow the wishes of the Alliance brass anyway.

But the Alliance is not aware that Cerberus is hunting Miranda, that's my point.

And can't argue with everyone facing extinction. I agree on that point in fact. Seems like a plothole regarding the Alliance's treatment of Miranda prior to Sanctuary. *shrugs*

Modifié par redBadger14, 20 mars 2012 - 05:58 .

[Melra]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

They let ex-Cerberus peeps work on the Crucible (Jacob, Brynn)...so I can't see them refusing help from the ex second in command.

Jacob and Brynn were not high up in Cerberus ranks compared to Miranda. Plus, Jacob and Brynn's base were attacked by Cerberus, giving the Alliance plenty of reason to accept their assistance.

So?
They left before Cerberus attacked...Brynn is a senior member of Cerberus.  Hackett called it a win against Cerberus when you manage to get everyone out of there (and now working on the Crucible, etc)

And Shepard is a Spectre, so he can overide folks who don't like Miranda on the ship (again she left after ME2...)

Batarians can also join the fleet that is going to retake Earth.
With the entire galaxy at threat, you take any help what you can get.

This. Spectre authority, pew pew pew.

[o Ventus]

redBadger14 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

Jacob and Brynn were not high up in Cerberus ranks compared to Miranda. Plus, Jacob and Brynn's base were attacked by Cerberus, giving the Alliance plenty of reason to accept their assistance.

Brynn (and the other scientists) were some of Cerberus' finest. They were working on the remains of the Collector Base. No telling what they could share with the Alliance. Jacob also headed security for Lazarus, and later got romantically involved with Brynn. He should know a thing or two about what they're doing.

Even Hackett can't sway Alliance politics. Even with Shepard's word, the Alliance nor Hackett are actually aware of Miranda's status, whether she is totally removed from Cerberus activities or not. That is why they want to bring her in for an investigation, possibly a trial. Besides, Miranda was making herself too scarce for Shepard to request her help.

The letter about Miranda on Liara's terminal, plus the final talk over vidcomm in London.

Even so, the Alliance would focus their attention on Miranda, who would have the same information if not more than Jacob. And again, the Cerberus attack showed that they were doing something Cerberus wouldn't allow. 

Alliance were not aware of her status prior to the message on Liara's terminal. After the message, looks like they will cease trying to chase her down, but they still take an unsupportive stance on Miranda's activities. 

What part of "interplanetary extermination" did you miss?

The world (Or galaxy, in this case) is coming to an end. The Alliance needs every bit of help it can get, as evidenced by all the recruiting Shepard does. They're fine with picking up Balak, who attempted to slam an Asteroid into Terra Nova, and they're fine with Shepard curing the genophage, knowing damn well the krogan could rise up again. They also took my recruiting of the geth well, given their lack of opening fire at first sight.

Again, protocol or not, they need every able body they can get.

Modifié par o Ventus, 20 mars 2012 - 05:59 .

[flemm]

redBadger14 wrote...

But the Alliance is not aware that Cerberus is hunting Miranda, that's my point.

So Shepard makes them aware. Or the story does, some other way. Not to mention that, post-Sanctuary, Miranda has infiltrated and sabotaged an important Cerberus facility on her own, then killed her father, the guy who was running it, in addition to surviving an assassination attempt by Leng.

Now they know

Thanks for the image, by the way, JB.

Modifié par flemm, 20 mars 2012 - 06:00 .

[redBadger14]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

They let ex-Cerberus peeps work on the Crucible (Jacob, Brynn)...so I can't see them refusing help from the ex second in command.

Jacob and Brynn were not high up in Cerberus ranks compared to Miranda. Plus, Jacob and Brynn's base were attacked by Cerberus, giving the Alliance plenty of reason to accept their assistance.

So?
They left before Cerberus attacked...Brynn is a senior member of Cerberus.  Hackett called it a win against Cerberus when you manage to get everyone out of there (and now working on the Crucible, etc)

And Shepard is a Spectre, so he can overide folks who don't like Miranda on the ship (again she left after ME2...)

Batarians can also join the fleet that is going to retake Earth.
With the entire galaxy at threat, you take any help what you can get.

Can't argue that. Like I said in my previous post though, seems to be a plothole that was easily missed by the writing team.

[MisterJB]

redBadger14 wrote...
Jacob and Brynn were not high up in Cerberus ranks compared to Miranda. Plus, Jacob and Brynn's base were attacked by Cerberus, giving the Alliance plenty of reason to accept their assistance.

And Miranda single handedly shut down the very source of all the Cerberus troops that have been plaguing the galaxy, tricked TIM's right hand into leading the Alliance to the Cronos Station and is the only one on their side who was inside the station before.
That is plenty of reason to accept her assistance.

redbadger14 wrote...
Even Hackett can't sway Alliance politics. Even with Shepard's word, the Alliance nor Hackett are actually aware of Miranda's status, whether she is totally removed from Cerberus activities or not. That is why they want to bring her in for an investigation, possibly a trial.

What Alliance politics? The Parliament is dead, the Nation leaders on Earth have been indocrinated and are shooting their own people. This is Martial Law.
Anderson, Hackett and Shepard were the leaders of the human race during the Reaper War. Anderson led the resistance on Earth, Hackett led the Fleet (as evidenced by how he was able to order all other admirals to retreat and abandon Earth early on) and Shepard gathers allies.
No one was thinking about trials at this time. Shepard didn't actually go through one, when the Human councilor was revealed to be a traitor, he was gunned down in the spot.
With all the assistance Miranda can offer, I doubt even the Alliance would be so inflexible as to refuse the help out of principle. And even if they wanted to, they have good reasons to make a few concessions to keep Shepard happy.

Besides, Miranda was making herself too scarce for Shepard to request her help.

Not after Sanctuary, where it would make sense for her accompany Shepard in spearheading the attack on Cronos Station.
Her father is dead and all the help she can offer against Cerberus would be better focused on attacking TIM's stronghold and killing him.

Modifié par MisterJB, 20 mars 2012 - 06:14 .

[jtav]

At this point, the thing that matters most about Miranda is that she wants to stop the Reapers. Hackett makes it clear he'll take all the help he can get, and the Alliance politicians who could overrule him are all dead at Arcturus. So she could easily come aboard or even join, but the writers aren't interested. They didn't seem very interested in her at all tbh.