82210 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

Td1984 wrote...

Thanks Lemon.

BTW, did you get banned again?

No, I made another account so I could register my ME3 copy (Don't ask).

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
. Or even better, a scenario where Oriana asserts her independence from Miranda by rejecting what Miranda wants for her, so that Miranda can let some of her protectiveness go. How about Oriana joining a merc group?

God no! Oriana followying her own path is great but mercenaries are uncaring. selfish brutes.
Just keep the original scenario where Oriana sets Sanctuary as a proper refugee camp.

Modifié par MisterJB, 20 mars 2012 - 07:37 .

[o Ventus]

MisterJB wrote...

Just keep the original scenario where Oriana sets Sanctuary as a proper refugee camp.

This. No mercenaries.

[flemm]

enayasoul wrote...
Maybe I'm a little to protective of Miranda having to go through any unnecessary torture.  In general, I don't like seeing anyone suffer.  But I know, we don't live in a world full of sunshine and bunnies but really, it's unnecessary.

The issue I have with Oriana in ME3 is she is used as a ball and chain to keep Miranda away from the main story, and I dislike the writers' focus on Oriana to the exclusion of all else.

So, when I say I want to strangle her, it's because of that aspect.

I like Oriana otherwise, for example in ME2. I think somebody somewhere underestimated how important it was/is for Miranda to have a hard edge. The Oriana stuff is great as a layer that reveals itself gradually to the player, as in ME2, but it doesn't really work as the main focus, and if there is no balance between that and whatever else Miranda is doing.

It's like part of the character was deleted.

The first dialogue is a good example of this. It feels like you are talking to Miranda, because she mentions a bunch of things that are on her mind: Cerberus, Reapers, Shepard, etc. Suddenly, she says, I have a personal matter to deal with, a bit like in ME2. But it's like...    wait...    we skipped the part where you have professional matters to deal with. Actually we didn't skip it, it's just extremely under-developed ("contacts" on the Citadel).

Modifié par flemm, 20 mars 2012 - 07:44 .

[enayasoul]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
So I'm not the only one who wants to nuke Ori from orbit?

Didn't I hear you say she was awesome just a few weeks ago? What changed?

And yeah, you're not the only one. But were the option in the game, I still wouldn't do it because of what that would do to Miranda. I would've preferred she stayed in the background without any link to Miranda's story in ME3. Or even better, a scenario where Oriana asserts her independence from Miranda by rejecting what Miranda wants for her, so that Miranda can let some of her protectiveness go. How about Oriana joining a merc group?

@enyasoul:
Those scenarios are the bad ones. If you're thinking of how you'd write Miranda's story in ME3 you also need to think of the bad outcomes. Read jtav's "Shadow War" to see where she wants Miranda to be. Now thoroughly AU of course.

*Some* of her stories are well written but that's her view on how she perceives Miranda to be with Matt.  Not for me personally.  

I think Oriana was a necessary hook because it brings Miranda's father in to the foreground so that we can actually meet him and judge for ourselves if he really is a bastard or not.  Apparently, Mr. Lawson only cares about himself.  I saw more love in Miranda caring for her sister and more hate Mr. Lawson had for Miranda.  He'd kill his own daughter, he made, because of what Miranda did 20 years ago and still holds a grudge towards Miranda.   No, he really was a monster and had no rights to have Oriana back.  Killing Oriana would break Miranda.  Just dumping Miranda had a big IMPACT on how Miranda got herself killed.   She'd probably kill herself or die intentionally if she lost Oriana. 

You can think of all the bad outcomes you want and write them but it doesn't mean you need to implement them out of some sick thrill that it might give you.   That's the part that disgusts me.  Yeah, Antihero/antagonist will do the unthinkable, unimaginable torture, hurt so you'll hate them and want the hero to stop them.  

I guess it's the violence we do to other people in our own community, country and around the world that makes sad.  We learn to be rude, kill, cheat, steal and think it's acceptable?  Go to war... over ideals.    You name it.  That probably why I detest the ending so much.  It's felt like nothing mattered in the end.  The reapers won... just like shepard said, if we can't think for ourselves or guide our own future we might as well be machine following orders.  The point is, Shepard brought everyone togather in the end and fought against the enemy to their last breath.   I would have been happy with the Reapers finally being defeated and rebuilding of the words would take place.  Why destroy all the relays in the process, that just destroys every world in the galaxy.  Arrival.

But back to Miranda...  I'm sure Miranda would learn to give a little leeway to Oriana leaving her sights to do stuff with Shepard help if he survived...  You know?  It would've been great to see Miranda, Oriana and Shepard all in one room togather chatting.  The banter would/could be hilarious.:happy: 

[jtav]

Ori was quite awesome in the leak if Miranda was dead. But she nearly ruined Miranda for me. I'm not happy.

[flemm]

enayasoul wrote...
I think Oriana was a necessary hook because it brings Miranda's father in to the foreground so that we can actually meet him and judge for ourselves if he really is a bastard or not. 

That part is fine. However, afterwards especially and, in fact, for the first two thirds of the game that she spends looking (i.e. not doing much), other things should have been going on.

It's not Oriana or the family stuff per se, it's the absence of other stuff.

enayasoul wrote...
I would have been happy with the Reapers finally being defeated and rebuilding of the words would take place. Why destroy all the relays in the process, that just destroys every world in the galaxy.

Well, you're probably right in that they were trying to be a bit grim and preachy about how life is all hard 'n' stuff (as if everybody didn't know that already), and forgot they were making a heroic fantasy game.

Modifié par flemm, 20 mars 2012 - 08:05 .

[Shepherd10]

o Ventus wrote...

jtav wrote...

At this point, the thing that matters most about Miranda is that she wants to stop the Reapers. Hackett makes it clear he'll take all the help he can get, and the Alliance politicians who could overrule him are all dead at Arcturus. So she could easily come aboard or even join, but the writers aren't interested. They didn't seem very interested in her at all tbh.

I can agree with this.

That makes two of us.

[enayasoul]

flemm wrote...

enayasoul wrote...
Maybe I'm a little to protective of Miranda having to go through any unnecessary torture.  In general, I don't like seeing anyone suffer.  But I know, we don't live in a world full of sunshine and bunnies but really, it's unnecessary.

The issue I have with Oriana in ME3 is she is used as a ball and chain to keep Miranda away from the main story, and I dislike the writers' focus on Oriana to the exclusion of all else.

So, when I say I want to strangle her, it's because of that aspect.

I like Oriana otherwise, for example in ME2. I think somebody somewhere underestimated how important it was/is for Miranda to have a hard edge. The Oriana stuff is great as a layer that reveals itself gradually to the player, as in ME2, but it doesn't really work as the main focus, and if there is no balance between that and whatever else Miranda is doing.

It's like part of the character was deleted.

The first dialogue is a good example of this. It feels like you are talking to Miranda, because she mentions a bunch of things that are on her mind: Cerberus, Reapers, Shepard, etc. Suddenly, she says, I have a personal matter to deal with, a bit like in ME2. But it's like...    wait...    we skipped the part where you have professional matters to deal with. Actually we didn't skip it, it's just extremely under-developed ("contacts" on the Citadel).

Well, the only way, I can rationalize that aspect of why Miranda is in the background is because it's war time with the Reapers.  It seems, Miranda didn't know if it was the Reapers?  Or why Oriana didn't contact her. So she says she doesn't want to overact but suspects it's her father.

Miranda's a smart cookie.      I REALLY loved the first conversation.  I've rewatched it a dozen or more times from my frap vid I took.

I really like all of the conversations.  First, and third...are really good.  The sanctuary one is another favorite.  I like the ones where Shepards asked how she did all that... and tells her she did good...  I also liked.  "Did you worry?" and Shep's reply, "Of course I worried."  "It wasn't nothing I couldn't handle."   Yeah, Miranda can take care of herself, survive, so I have no doubt she'd survive in the end.  

The thing that bugs me is the end... Maybe it's a closure issue that I have with Shepard keeping his promise to find her in the end?  

It seems Miranda is doing something after the assault on the Illusive man's headquarters... from the shadow broker message.   She's seen doing something good.  Tearing down the old Cerberus operations.  I think Miranda will be fine.  At least there is hope she will be.  

Modifié par enayasoul, 20 mars 2012 - 08:23 .

[jtav]

Yeah, the SB message that's obvious damage control. I like it, but it's rather thin gruel. There are flashes of "my" Miranda, but she's largely a tame and boring character.

Sod BioWare. I can do better.

[o Ventus]

enayasoul wrote...

The thing that bugs me is the end... Maybe it's a closure issue that I have with Shepard keeping his promise to find her in the end?  

I'm using the "find me" promise in my next short story (Figure, with my last story and ME3's endings being bleak, I can do something a little brighter).

At least we can all agree on one thing. Thank god Miranda isn't a squadmate.

I mean, I'd kill for more interaction with her, but I can sacrifice that to keep her from being stranded with the Normandy.

Modifié par o Ventus, 20 mars 2012 - 08:22 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Sorry I make assumptions but from what I read it seems most of you guys have become annoyed with Orianas presence in ME3

[o Ventus]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Sorry I make assumptions but from what I read it seems most of you guys have become annoyed with Orianas presence in ME3

80% of the time she takes precedence over everything else Miranda's involved in. 

"Annoyed" is putting it politely.

[flemm]

enayasoul wrote...

It seems Miranda is doing something after the assault on the Illusive man's headquarters... from the shadow broker message.   She's seen doing something good.  Tearing down the old Cerberus operations. 

Well, something like this is where her focus should have been for most of the game. Which wouldn't exclude dealing with the father at the appropriate moment at all.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

@o Ventus
I feel the same way.
But is it wrong her main focus is Oriana and not romanced Shep?

[enayasoul]

o Ventus wrote...

enayasoul wrote...

The thing that bugs me is the end... Maybe it's a closure issue that I have with Shepard keeping his promise to find her in the end?  

I'm using the "find me" promise in my next short story (Figure, with my last story and ME3's endings being bleak, I can do something a little brighter).

At least we can all agree on one thing. Thank god Miranda isn't a squadmate.

I mean, I'd kill for more interaction with her, but I can sacrifice that to keep her from being stranded with the Normandy.

 TheNormandy leaving to escape the exploding relays...  that just doesn't make sense at all. Apparently ME3 needed a lot more time develop, debug and so forth.  If they'd ask for another extension I would have said yes.  The whole, traynors head turning around towards the back talking to Shep breaks the whole illusion of being in that world. What is she some zombie that her head spins around?  Also there is a spot next to Joker's chair that Shepard can get stuck. I had to reload just to get unstuck. laughs.

[ThomGau]

Yep, I don't hate Oriana in herself, moreover in ME2 she added more depth to Miranda's character. However in ME3 she is a plot hook to Miranda which prevents her from being part of the bigger picture, it's somewhat irritating.
It would have been nice to see both paths crossing (the bigger picture and her family issues) but well ...

Indeed it is paradoxically and ironically a good thing that she isn't part of the Normandy Crew who crashed on Gilligan's Planet. At least it makes it easier for us to imagine some reunion scenario between her and Shep.

Modifié par ThomGau, 20 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[pyro_technician]

So what were the dialogue options from the leak with Miranda? Or was there any change at all?

[flemm]

pyro_technician wrote...

So what were the dialogue options from the leak with Miranda? Or was there any change at all?

Not much. The end of the third dialogue is different. In the leak it wasn't clear that this led into a romance scene (somebody seemed to interrupt them), so that might have been a late "damage control" adjustment as well.

I think there are a couple of other minor adjustments, from memory, possibly to the last dialogue.

Modifié par flemm, 20 mars 2012 - 08:37 .

[o Ventus]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

@o Ventus
I feel the same way.
But is it wrong her main focus is Oriana and not romanced Shep?

Shepard isn't the one kidnapped by Miranda's tyrannical father though. She still worries a great deal about Shepard ("Promise me you'll be safe"), but Oriana is the one directly in danger.

It's still retarded, no matter how you see it.

[pyro_technician]

@ Flemm
Shame, I was hoping that there would have been more and that the dialogue was cut because of EA or something else

Modifié par pyro_technician, 20 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

@o Ventus
Yeah I know

[ThomGau]

flemm wrote...

pyro_technician wrote...

So what were the dialogue options from the leak with Miranda? Or was there any change at all?

Not much. The end of the third dialogue is different. In the leak it wasn't clear that this led into a romance scene (somebody seemed to interrupt them), so that might have been a late "damage control" adjustment as well.

I think there are a couple of other minor adjustments, from memory, possibly to the last dialogue.

Indeed, not much has changed, a few modifications here and there + damage control.
I was disappointed to see that ~70% of her lines were already present in the leaked script when I thought her role was quite incomplete (and still is imo).

Modifié par ThomGau, 20 mars 2012 - 08:46 .

[enayasoul]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

@o Ventus
I feel the same way.
But is it wrong her main focus is Oriana and not romanced Shep?

I think Miranda's motivation was to keep Oriana safe.  Miranda said it herself.  "You have a war to win, Shepard."  Miranda knows that Shepard needs to concentrate on the war effort.   Miranda's doing what she can to survive... remember Cerberus assassins were after her. IF Miranda was easily located on the Normandy, they'd(Cerberus) would focus on getting to her from there?  Hiding was better...

They've both expressed they have their hands full with other things but yeah, another meeting before taking back earth would have been nice.  The last conversation... They both wanted to be with each other.  Miranda is a strong woman.  She'll survive.   She told shepard.  "Finish this... and find me."  IF that wasn't a kick in the pants to get Shepard motivated to win it and get back to her... 

[flemm]

pyro_technician wrote...

@ Flemm
Shame, I was hoping that there would have been more and that the dialogue was cut because of EA or something else

Nah. but it's not really surprising, since basically the whole script for the game was leaked. There are some other minor adjustments, but nothing major.

We speculated at the time that it might be an older build, due to Miranda's dialogue with her father not being in the leak.

Little did we know that that it wasn't there because there is no such dialogue

Modifié par flemm, 20 mars 2012 - 08:51 .