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[redBadger14]

o Ventus wrote...

If the indoctrination theory turns out to be real, what potential implications could that hold for Miranda?

For Miranda? None. At least, no implications directly that I can see.

I hope it ends up being true though. It would be nice to have closure with all the LI's. Ash wants to go home, Garrus to the beach....and for some, Jack needs to get laid dammit! 

Modifié par redBadger14, 21 mars 2012 - 01:54 .

[o Ventus]

flemm wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Then let me amend that.  I want her back in my squad once the goddamn endings are fixed 

Or she just takes her leave at Cerberus Headquarters. But anyway, yeah

Would that really be worth it?

Actually, scratch that. She would have the same importance as Mordin and Legion. Totally worth it. 

Either way, more interaction = good.

Modifié par o Ventus, 21 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[Ieldra]

o Ventus wrote...
Actually, scratch that. She would have the same importance as Mordin and Legion. Totally worth it. 

Uh....recall what happens to Mordin and Legion....perhaps not quite worth it.

[o Ventus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...
Actually, scratch that. She would have the same importance as Mordin and Legion. Totally worth it. 

Uh....recall what happens to Mordin and Legion....perhaps not quite worth it.

I meant in terms of screen time.

I thought that was obvious enough. At least Mordin can live.

[jtav]

It would be the kind of death I'm okay with. They accomplish something great, saving entire races. Miranda is stuffed into the fridge.

[o Ventus]

jtav wrote...

It would be the kind of death I'm okay with. They accomplish something great, saving entire races. Miranda is stuffed into the fridge.

And then the ending relegates the entire ordeal pointless.

All that's missing is a sign saying "Congratulations, you accomplished precisely nothing!"

[flemm]

o Ventus wrote...

Would that really be worth it?

Yes, absolutely. It's the difference between having a complete character arc, with an appropriate finale to a core element of Miranda's story, and not having it. Obviously, it would be better if she were not just along for the ride, but had an impact there. However, that would not be difficult to arrange.

Basically, following ME2, other than the romance, there are three main character traits that needed more development/closure (ideally both):

1) Cerberus
2) Genetic Engineering
3) Family issues

In ME3, only #3 really gets any closure, though it's handled in such a way that there is no real development. It's over, but it doesn't go anywhere.

The omission of anything significant to develop/pursue #1 boggles my mind, but would be taken care of by meaningful involvement of some kind at the base.

#2 is ignored entirely (again, how does this happen?). The confrontation with the father should have included a resolution of Miranda's doubts/insecurities regarding her origins. 

Modifié par flemm, 21 mars 2012 - 03:11 .

[o Ventus]

flemm wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Would that really be worth it?

Yes, absolutely.*snip*

Did you only read that single sentence?

[flemm]

o Ventus wrote...

Did you only read that single sentence?

Nope, but I wanted to elaborate

[yesikareyes]

 
So I was browsing through my screenshots and I thought it would be cool to just share this lol

I call it Shep reaching for the goodies! 

[CrutchCricket]

After I finished Sanctuary but before I got to the RGB ending(s) I actually developed a bit of a theory for why Miranda might not be too involved in Cerberus/the war. Admittedly it's weak and you'll probably hate it. Also it doesn't matter anymore. But hey I'm on here anyway so might as well.
Basically it amounts to her being disillusioned about her ability to help humanity. I mean she was such a firm believer in Cerberus for so long. But once she sees what they're doing and more to the point what they're using her work for (whatever projects she worked on pre ME2 and probably stuff from Lazarus as well) culminating with Sanctuary, it's probably a "what have I done/helped do?" Of course this would have far more cred if they explicitly went this way. And it doesn't explain why she has nothing to say on Cerberus, not even a passing remark calling TIM a tosser. But maybe it mitigates her situation somewhat. I guess most of what she does can have a plausible explanation in universe. But as to why it was written this way, it's anyone's guess.

[redBadger14]

All this has only made me think of, if Miranda had a role similar to that of Legion and Mordin, the Renegade options that Shepard would have to "stop" her from accomplishing something. THAT, would be heartbreaking.

It was tough watching the Renegade interrupts on Mordin and Legion on YouTube. I could never do that to them, nor could I ever do that to Miranda should her role have ever been made similar.

[redBadger14]

yesikareyes wrote...

 
So I was browsing through my screenshots and I thought it would be cool to just share this lol

I call it Shep reaching for the goodies! *snip*

Or its just him walking <_<

[o Ventus]

yesikareyes wrote...

 
So I was browsing through my screenshots and I thought it would be cool to just share this lol

I call it Shep reaching for the goodies! 

huehuehuehue

[redBadger14]

CrutchCricket wrote...

After I finished Sanctuary but before I got to the RGB ending(s) I actually developed a bit of a theory for why Miranda might not be too involved in Cerberus/the war. Admittedly it's weak and you'll probably hate it. Also it doesn't matter anymore. But hey I'm on here anyway so might as well.
Basically it amounts to her being disillusioned about her ability to help humanity. I mean she was such a firm believer in Cerberus for so long. But once she sees what they're doing and more to the point what they're using her work for (whatever projects she worked on pre ME2 and probably stuff from Lazarus as well) culminating with Sanctuary, it's probably a "what have I done/helped do?" Of course this would have far more cred if they explicitly went this way. And it doesn't explain why she has nothing to say on Cerberus, not even a passing remark calling TIM a tosser. But maybe it mitigates her situation somewhat. I guess most of what she does can have a plausible explanation in universe. But as to why it was written this way, it's anyone's guess.

I think I can agree on that. Certainly seems like Miranda has that kind of guilt hanging over her head, even though she never hints at it aside from apologising to Shepard for wanting to install the control chip in his head.

[o Ventus]

Miranda's never struck me as the type to linger on guilt. If there's a problem like Cerberus, she goes and tries to fix it, she doesn't let it consume her.

Modifié par o Ventus, 21 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[CrutchCricket]

redBadger14 wrote...
I think I can agree on that. Certainly seems like Miranda has that kind of guilt hanging over her head, even though she never hints at it aside from apologising to Shepard for wanting to install the control chip in his head.

I wasn't expecting her to do that. That totally suprised me. I liked it. I think they really connected there. Made that whole scene worth it. "Completing" the romance is all well and good but since it's just a cut to black it needed more. That was a nice touch.

[jtav]

She says as much. "You atone by fixing your mistakes, not by committing suicide."

ME3 Miranda isn't Miranda. She's a watered down copy with the same voice.

[CrutchCricket]

o Ventus wrote...

Miranda's never struck me as the type to linger on guilt. If there's a problem like Cerberus, she goes and tries to fix it, she doesn't let it consume her.

I wouldn't say lingering on guilt exactly. And something like this wouldn't be a simple "my bad" situation. More like "everything I believed turned out to be wrong and my work is being used for no good".

Also remember ME2 and "all I can take credit for is my mistakes"? Seems like some type of lingering to me.

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...
She says as much. "You atone by fixing your mistakes, not by committing suicide."

When was this?

[flemm]

o Ventus wrote...

Miranda's never struck me as the type to linger on guilt. If there's a problem like Cerberus, she goes and tries to fix it, she doesn't let it consume her.

The odd thing about it is, the way Sanctuary is set up, if the writing had been better, and had been focused on this aspect, her involvement could/should have expressed that very thing.

To really do it, of course, she would then have to continue on to TIM's base. But even Sanctuary *should* have covered this.

Anyway, I don't see her being consumed with guilt. That doesn't come through in her dialogue on Sanctuary at all. I just see writing that ignores the Cerberus aspect entirely, except perhaps on the most superficial level, i.e. it is a Cerberus installation that she infiltrates.

It's a game that works a certain way, so there should be a "mechanical aspect" to it as well, i.e. Miranda's involvement should have a significant impact. Which it unfortunately does not.

Modifié par flemm, 21 mars 2012 - 03:56 .

[jtav]

When Shepard broaches the prospect that Niket wanted to die to atone for his betrayal.

[redBadger14]

o Ventus wrote...

Miranda's never struck me as the type to linger on guilt. If there's a problem like Cerberus, she goes and tries to fix it, she doesn't let it consume her.

And @jtav:

I completely agree, but I look at it from this standpoint: Miranda has always been a confident woman who takes great pride in her work. What happened with Cerberus at the end of ME2 and going into ME3 however I see as the lowest low blow that could have been delivered to Miranda. She put her faith in this organization for 20+ years, and even used the organization to help keep Oriana from her father. To suddenly come to the realization that all her work, that she held such convictions for,  be rendered as horrendous and destroying the heart of what makes humans "human" I think was the worst kind of guilt Miranda could endure. Of course she goes to lengths to fix her mistakes and cripple Cerberus, but I think that guilt will linger over her head for a while. Add that on top of Cerberus supporting Miranda's father in undertaking experiments to fuse Reaper tech in humans, the exact thing Miranda was fighting against her father for, and you have something that weighs heavily on her. Have no illusions though, she finds her strength in doing what she can to cripple Cerberus, and I think that is a powerful aspect of her character in ME3 that can be so easily overlooked.

CrutchCricket wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...
I think I can agree on that. Certainly seems like Miranda has that kind of guilt hanging over her head, even though she never hints at it aside from apologising to Shepard for wanting to install the control chip in his head.

I wasn't expecting her to do that. That totally suprised me. I liked it. I think they really connected there. Made that whole scene worth it. "Completing" the romance is all well and good but since it's just a cut to black it needed more. That was a nice touch.

 
Agreed. I was surprised at how well Miranda's dialogue and romance was in ME3. It could have been better, but I was touched by it, and it was nice to hear her say the things she said.

[CrutchCricket]

Oh. It never came up with me. I assume that's because I always stopped her from killing him. Is this during the second game? Or dialogue in the third as a result?

[o Ventus]

redBadger14 wrote...

Agreed. I was surprised at how well Miranda's dialogue and romance was in ME3. It could have been better, but I was touched by it, and it was nice to hear her say the things she said.

Agreed as well. If there's one good thing about her in ME3, it's that the romance continuation is well done (What parts of are there, anyway).