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[o Ventus]

Td1984 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

pyro_technician wrote...

Huh. Had a dream that Miranda somehow showed up at my house with my roomies when we were drinking and apparently started lecturing us on how we were wasting our potential by playing video games all the time. I think my brain is trying to tell me something. Either that or it was the tacos I had for dinner. Either way, it was....strange.

That's nothing compared to the dream I had the other night...

Sadly, if I were to go into detail about the events therein, I may be banned from this site.

A few nights ago, I had a dream that as I was headed to see Miranda for that romance culmination scene in the apartments on the Citadel, I found a diamond ring lying on the ground (I finally managed to reach that scene yesterday).

What's the implication?

[CrutchCricket]

redBadger14 wrote...
She was devoted to human advancement when she was with Cerberus. The revelation of what Cerberus's true intentions were put that side of her into question, and I think we see that in her character in ME3. She is not confident she did the right thing when she was with Cerberus, but she tries to right her wrongs by doing what she can to cripple Cerberus. I think that represents her trying to redeem herself and truly advance humanity by putting a stop to Cerberus's assassination of what makes humans "human." Cerberus wants to change humanity for the worse. Miranda is trying to preserve what humanity really is. She does not want humanity to become genetically altered or manufactured, she wants to keep humanity pure. That is what I love about her in ME3.

The shady side of her never went away. We see this constantly with her in ME3. She makes herself scarce. She especially shows her shady side when she asks for Shepard's resources but refuses to tell him why, no matter if you romance her or not. Also, the raids on Cerberus bases in the Shadow Broker terminal mail. She manages to do that while eluding the Alliance (even though the Alliance addresses her activities).

Brilliance, again this never disappeared from Miranda's character. Her brillance is shown throughout ME3. We probably don't see it as much as we should because Miranda makes herself scarce. But she manages to discover the truth of the Sanctuary facility and her father's involvement with Cerberus, she can save Oriana *and* kill her father once and for all, and she also manages to place a tracer on Kai Leng so Shepard can finally finish the fight against Cerberus. If that is not a display of brilliance, I don't know what is.

Well put. Just a little thing in the first paragraph though- human advancement and human dominance aren't the same thing. Cerberus wanted the latter. But you can have the former without it, and without being a dick about it. That's what this thread sees Miranda as doing. And careful about the genetic engineering/alteration. Not all of necessarily bad. Suggesting otherwise is a... touchy issue around here.

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
It's pretty blatant damage control that doesn't quite fit with the game, especially the last vidcomm call.Miranda sounds as if she has only recovered and made overtures to the Alliance recently, both of which are inconsistent with the email.

Didn't you say you like Miranda as in that email? Did anything change?

Yes, it is damage control, but a reasonably good attempt at it. I'm still annoyed they apparently forgot some of her core traits in their writing of ME3, but I think this really saves Miranda in ME3.

I love the email, but it's not exactly a cutscene. It saves her from me disowning her, but it's like a student passing a course by one point when you thought they were an honor student.

[redBadger14]

CrutchCricket wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...
She was devoted to human advancement when she was with Cerberus. The revelation of what Cerberus's true intentions were put that side of her into question, and I think we see that in her character in ME3. She is not confident she did the right thing when she was with Cerberus, but she tries to right her wrongs by doing what she can to cripple Cerberus. I think that represents her trying to redeem herself and truly advance humanity by putting a stop to Cerberus's assassination of what makes humans "human." Cerberus wants to change humanity for the worse. Miranda is trying to preserve what humanity really is. She does not want humanity to become genetically altered or manufactured, she wants to keep humanity pure. That is what I love about her in ME3.

The shady side of her never went away. We see this constantly with her in ME3. She makes herself scarce. She especially shows her shady side when she asks for Shepard's resources but refuses to tell him why, no matter if you romance her or not. Also, the raids on Cerberus bases in the Shadow Broker terminal mail. She manages to do that while eluding the Alliance (even though the Alliance addresses her activities).

Brilliance, again this never disappeared from Miranda's character. Her brillance is shown throughout ME3. We probably don't see it as much as we should because Miranda makes herself scarce. But she manages to discover the truth of the Sanctuary facility and her father's involvement with Cerberus, she can save Oriana *and* kill her father once and for all, and she also manages to place a tracer on Kai Leng so Shepard can finally finish the fight against Cerberus. If that is not a display of brilliance, I don't know what is.

Well put. Just a little thing in the first paragraph though- human advancement and human dominance aren't the same thing. Cerberus wanted the latter. But you can have the former without it, and without being a dick about it. That's what this thread sees Miranda as doing. And careful about the genetic engineering/alteration. Not all of necessarily bad. Suggesting otherwise is a... touchy issue around here.

Ah, thanks for catching that. That was what I was aiming for was Cerberus's goal for human dominance, disguised by claiming it as human advancement. And yeah, wasn't necessarily saying that genetic engineering/alteration was a bad thing. Apologies if it came across that way. Rather, I was aiming for how Miranda did not want herself to be genetically engineered, and probably did not want the same for humanity when her father's experiments came to light.

But yeah, I think Miranda's key traits are present in ME3. They aren't shoved in your face, but rather you need to extrapolate from her actions in ME3 to find the underlying motivations behind them that almost perfectly link to her traits from ME2 that we loved.

[o Ventus]

redBadger14 wrote...

But yeah, I think Miranda's key traits are present in ME3. They aren't shoved in your face, but rather you need to extrapolate from her actions in ME3 to find the underlying motivations behind them that almost perfectly link to her traits from ME2 that we loved.

If this is the case, then Miranda is the only ME2-exclusive character (Besides Jack) that requires an in-depth analysis of her actions to determine her prioritized traits. Everyone else pretty much makes it in-your-face obvious.

[redBadger14]

o Ventus wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

But yeah, I think Miranda's key traits are present in ME3. They aren't shoved in your face, but rather you need to extrapolate from her actions in ME3 to find the underlying motivations behind them that almost perfectly link to her traits from ME2 that we loved.

If this is the case, then Miranda is the only ME2-exclusive character (Besides Jack) that requires an in-depth analysis of her actions to determine her prioritized traits. Everyone else pretty much makes it in-your-face obvious.

That is true. Mordin and Jack are great examples of the "in-your-face" character development. I dont mind Miranda's being more reserved to extrapolation though. If I can do that and find the underlying traits, then I am happy 

[o Ventus]

redBadger14 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

But yeah, I think Miranda's key traits are present in ME3. They aren't shoved in your face, but rather you need to extrapolate from her actions in ME3 to find the underlying motivations behind them that almost perfectly link to her traits from ME2 that we loved.

If this is the case, then Miranda is the only ME2-exclusive character (Besides Jack) that requires an in-depth analysis of her actions to determine her prioritized traits. Everyone else pretty much makes it in-your-face obvious.

That is true. Mordin and Jack are great examples of the "in-your-face" character development. I dont mind Miranda's being more reserved to extrapolation though. If I can do that and find the underlying traits, then I am happy 

Analyzing her for traits is much more interesting anyway.

... "Analyzing her" sounded much dirtier than I had meant it.

[TomY90]

I guess one thing that did not help Miranda as a character in ME3 is that she had tons of character development in ME2 considering she started out with that cold appearance all professional then we get through the whole ice queen appearance and you find she is very emotional determined and far from perfect of a character and changing from at all cost kind of character to one that does not think the end justifies the means.

this makes it challenging to develop a character further when there is already seen huge changes in what the character appeared to be in the start of ME2 to the end of ME2.

but overall I still say bioware did a great job with Miranda in ME3 did the romance was well done considering she is on the run and is not a full squad member.

[o Ventus]

TomY90 wrote...

I guess one thing that did not help Miranda as a character in ME3 is that she had tons of character development in ME2 considering she started out with that cold appearance all professional then we get through the whole ice queen appearance and you find she is very emotional determined and far from perfect of a character and changing from at all cost kind of character to one that does not think the end justifies the means.

this makes it challenging to develop a character further when there is already seen huge changes in what the character appeared to be in the start of ME2 to the end of ME2.

but overall I still say bioware did a great job with Miranda in ME3 did the romance was well done considering she is on the run and is not a full squad member.

@bold- I don't think I'd say this. She's still the "ends justify the means" person, but to a point. She notes something similar on purgatory-

"I'm all for interrogation, but this is just senseless torture"

[Dr. Doctor]

My personal issue with ME3 is that for most of the characters interaction just stops all of a sudden.

- If you didn't romance Ash or Kaidan they're pretty much stuck in Zaeed discussion mode after the Citadel Coup.

- Vega really only has two conversations (one after Mars, the other in Purgatory)

The overarching story of ME3 is great up until the tail end of the third act, but I really miss all of the character development we got in ME2.

[redBadger14]

o Ventus wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

But yeah, I think Miranda's key traits are present in ME3. They aren't shoved in your face, but rather you need to extrapolate from her actions in ME3 to find the underlying motivations behind them that almost perfectly link to her traits from ME2 that we loved.

If this is the case, then Miranda is the only ME2-exclusive character (Besides Jack) that requires an in-depth analysis of her actions to determine her prioritized traits. Everyone else pretty much makes it in-your-face obvious.

That is true. Mordin and Jack are great examples of the "in-your-face" character development. I dont mind Miranda's being more reserved to extrapolation though. If I can do that and find the underlying traits, then I am happy 

Analyzing her for traits is much more interesting anyway.

... "Analyzing her" sounded much dirtier than I had meant it.

True that!

And lol, its okay 

[MisterJB]

I had a few thoughts on how I would have improved Miranda and Cerberus’ arc in ME3. This might be crappy or clichéd but I’ll post them nonetheless.

The first acts of the game would happen largely unchanged. Shepard speaks with Miranda three times but she feels she will be more useful elsewhere so she doesn’t join the Normandy. The mains difference would be that the topic of Oriana wouldn’t come up at least until the second or even third conversation.

Once you reached Sanctuary, there would be ways for both Miranda and Oriana to survive or for both of them to die.
If Shepard didn’t warn her about Kai Leng, he kills her and if Shepard didn’t give her access to Alliance resources, it’s Oriana who is in trouble because Miranda couldn’t make it through the facility in time to stop her father.
If Miranda spoke with Oriana in ME2, Henry considers Oriana irremediably tainted by their meeting and turns her into the Pariah that Shepard has to destroy. Since no ME2 squadmate ever fights alongside Shepard, we’ll just say Miranda couldn’t bring herself to harm Oriana, even in that state.
If the sisters never met in ME2, Shepard and Miranda reach the tower just in time to see Henry escaping with Oriana in a Cerberus shuttle. Shepard can then let them escape or tell EDI to destroy the shuttle, thus preventing Henry from escaping. This, of course, would make Miranda very antagonistic towards Shepard and break off the romance.
If Miranda is warned about Leng and given Alliance resources, she survives and saves Oriana.
Also, she has an amazing debate with her father that will galvanize the Miranda fan thread for years to come. She is free of the stigma of being genetically engineered. If romanced, she even repeats some of Shepard’s lines from ME2.

She then joins the Normandy much like Mordin or Legion. Insert numerous discussions regarding Cerberus and what to do when they find TIM here.
Tracing Kai Leng’s movements, they arrive at a Cerberus base. If Miranda is alive, she realizes he is not taking them to Cronos Station. Instead, he is going for the facility that has served as base of operations for those who escaped from Cerberus. And he is bringing an army with him.
If Oriana is gone, there is no issue. However, if she survived, Miranda insists that they must drop her off someplace safe first. Shepard can do as she asks or convince her that Oriana will be safe on the Normandy.
If you didn’t take a detour to drop off Oriana, Shepard and Miranda reach the facility in time to help with the defense. However, if you lost that precious time, the facility will have been overrun and most of the people Miranda helped will be dead. This could include Jacob, Brynn, Archer, etc.

After evacuating, Kai Leng finally takes them to Cronos Station. If you saved most of the Ex-Cerberus personnel, they will help the Alliance with the attack.
Once Shepard and Miranda have reached TIM’s inner Sanctum and Kai Leng is dead, it’s the culmination of Miranda’s arc. Depending on Shepard’s actions so far, Miranda can become a benevolent TIW, she can be convinced to destroy Cerberus entirely, she can become more of an extremist than TIM himself or she can be killed to allow Shepard to destroy Cerberus forever.

Modifié par MisterJB, 21 mars 2012 - 06:10 .

[o Ventus]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

My personal issue with ME3 is that for most of the characters interaction just stops all of a sudden.

- If you didn't romance Ash or Kaidan they're pretty much stuck in Zaeed discussion mode after the Citadel Coup.

- Vega really only has two conversations (one after Mars, the other in Purgatory)

The overarching story of ME3 is great up until the tail end of the third act, but I really miss all of the character development we got in ME2.

It seems they traded banter for conversations.

Dunno about anyone else, but I prefer conversations.

[jtav]

MisterJB: I love you. That would have been...perfect.

[ThomGau]

That would have been splendid JB and neither complicated nor restricting to put into the actual game imo, if one was inclined to do so of course ...

Modifié par ThomGau, 21 mars 2012 - 06:17 .

[Skullheart]

Wow,JB, that sounds great.Too bad that the chimps from BW didn't think on that.

[CrutchCricket]

I have but one addition to your otherwise fine points JB: Lawson himself is more than an stock-model average Joe with an Australian accent. He's actually menacing and progressively loathsome as things turn against him. I was so underwhelmed by him. Anyone who's a fan of Miranda and paid attention to her story has wanted to waste this guy since day 1. Instead we get a generic "Henry" I wouldn't even waste a renegade interrupt on. The voice acting was alright but the character design was poor.

[jtav]

I loved Henry way more than I should. He's a twisted, warped version of Miranda.

[Skullheart]

@jtav

Isn't Miranda a twisted, transgender version of him?

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

I loved Henry way more than I should. He's a twisted, warped version of Miranda.

He's utterly bland. Absolutely no defining features apart from the accent, which is the only thing that links him to Miranda apart from the giant sign that says "This is Mr. Lawson."

You might as well have replaced him with a Loki mech.

[cg8900]

has anyone chosen the option "what were you thinking?" after sanctuary when you're talking to miranda, I was wondering if the outcome was any different than the "you did well (somethinglike that)" that everybody seems to choose... including me....

Modifié par cg8900, 21 mars 2012 - 07:15 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

deleted

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 21 mars 2012 - 07:31 .

[Td1984]

Fudge. I'm stuck fighting the Reaper on Rannoch. I can't stay out of the way of the laser and target it at the same time.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

It's too bad they Different Versions of the Mass Effect 3 Cinematic "Take Earth Back" Trailer. I Would have LOVED to see Miri Standing Beside Shepard in the Corn Field with the Large Army behind them charging the Reaper Forces:wub:.

And there would be other Versions of the Trailer, like with Wrex Garrus, Tali, Kaidan, Javik, Samara, Liara, ETC.

You think that would have been too much money to make Different Versions of that Trailer? I mean, they made a FemShep Version of that Trailer.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 21 mars 2012 - 07:33 .

[jtav]

The thing about Henry is that he's brilliant in his own right. Listen to the logs. He was to Sanctuary as Miranda was to Cerberus. Both have a desire to save humanity, though Miranda lacks the ego and the sociopathy. Henry is what Miranda would be if she had no compassion or nobility.