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[jtav]

All other things being equal, I'd handle Miranda's death like Grunt's. She gives her father a speech. "This isn't Cerberus! I gave my life to protect humanity! You're just a monster!" And she sabotages his Reaper signal and reverses integration, but is wounded. If she was unloyal, the wound is mortal and she dies in Shepard or Oriana's arms. If she's loyal, the wound is not mortal and the freed soldiers look to her for leadership and she promises a new Cerberus.

[flemm]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Do you think she had her own Military Regiment/Squad?

I'd like to think so

jtav wrote...

All other things being equal, I'd handle Miranda's death like Grunt's. She gives her father a speech. "This isn't Cerberus! I gave my life to protect humanity! You're just a monster!" And she sabotages his Reaper signal and reverses integration, but is wounded. If she was unloyal, the wound is mortal and she dies in Shepard or Oriana's arms. If she's loyal, the wound is not mortal and the freed soldiers look to her for leadership and she promises a new Cerberus.

*clap, clap*

Simple, effective, and it works within the structure of her current role in the game.

She should still come with Shepard to the base, though

Modifié par flemm, 22 mars 2012 - 11:30 .

[enayasoul]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Do you think that Miri killed a few Brutes on Earth? Or maybe Banshees?

Do you think she had her own Military Regiment/Squad?

The brutes and banshees are a pain in the arse to kill.  I did get a trophy for one brute charging at me. lol.  Kind of hard to kill 2 or 3 on me. hehe  That's when the waves kept coming near the missile on EARTH.  I finally said screw this and ran over to hit the button as fast as I could. HAH!
I'm sure Miranda has her own Military regiment/squad of ex-cerberus people. 

The fifth conversation:
I wasn't sure if Miranda was looking at that alliance guy at the com or something was distracting her wherever she is?  Or just being cautious with her wording...

[cg8900]

those final waves were a pain in the buttock indeed, I finally gave up and changed from hard core to casual when the harvester + brutes showed up (still planning on doing an insanity run though, see how that goes)

Modifié par cg8900, 22 mars 2012 - 11:33 .

[Vertigo_1]

cg8900 wrote...

those final waves were a pain in the buttock indeed, I finally gave up and changed from hard core to casual when the harvester + brutes showed up (still planning on doing an insanity run though, see how that goes)

I'm about to do that part on insanity difficulty

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 22 mars 2012 - 11:36 .

[Td1984]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

cg8900 wrote...

those final waves were a pain in the buttock indeed, I finally gave up and changed from hard core to casual when the harvester + brutes showed up (still planning on doing an insanity run though, see how that goes)

I'm about to do that part on insanity difficulty

Good luck.

[cg8900]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

I'm about to do that part on insanity difficulty

good luck !!    I had soldier though, maybe another class is better? I'll def. have vanguard on my insanity run ....just charge those brutes
problem is, you can't run away from the brutes with the harvester shooting at you all the time....

Modifié par cg8900, 22 mars 2012 - 11:46 .

[Skullheart]

brutes and harvester are easy to kill, at least with my infiltrator. Black Widow and piercing ammo have no mercy to neither of them, even on insanity. Banshees on the other site, are a big pain in the arse.

And talking about Miranda, for me she was running logistics, ordering strike teams to attack where it hurts more.

Modifié par Skullheart, 23 mars 2012 - 12:52 .

[cg8900]

yes infiltrators are very good, might choose that as well....and on the banshees, I use my squamates as baits.....just let her kill them and then revive them again, so she can keep killing them untill I kill her

Modifié par cg8900, 23 mars 2012 - 12:20 .

[pyro_technician]

I ragequit on Rannoch with that reaper. I had to switch from hard core to casual. I got so frustrated. And those Banshees...... ALL MY HATE

[Td1984]

pyro_technician wrote...

I ragequit on Rannoch with that reaper. I had to switch from hard core to casual. I got so frustrated. And those Banshees...... ALL MY HATE

I hated that Reaper with a passion of a thousand firey suns. It took me around 10 tries before I finally figured it out and that was on Narrative! Not looking forward to doing it 3+ more times.

[SNascimento]

What you guys think about this?
.
Miranda in Kai Leng's place.
.
One of the main complains I've read about Kai Leng is how he fails as a character... there is minimal development, he just appears, dance a little, provoke you, and leaves. This might fits his role as TIM's tool, but a lot of people expect more.
.
This got me thinking, what if MIranda was is Kai Leng place? She spent half her life in Cerberus, she was the second in command, she knew the kind of stuff they did, so it makes more sense she stays with them after ME2 than leaving.
.
She fits the profile of an adversary for Shepard. And with all the backstory from ME2, there could be some amazing moments there.
.
What you guys think?
.
It's form a topic I created... figured I could see some feedback from here.

[Draidle]

I think she would have fit into that role brilliantly if you had never met her in ME2. However, after the 2nd game and all the conversations Shepard had with her it's hard to really want to see her in that position. Much better suited as your LI and squadmate.

[jtav]

The problem with that is that Miranda is profoundly principled and Cerberus has gone beyond the pale. It would be OOC for her to stay.

Anyway, I finished Sanctuary. The only significant difference that I saw was that Leng never runs into Ori. I'm pretty sure Ori can die via Henry, but I saved her. Ignoring that I know Miranda does the same thing, Ori comes off as a courageous civilian in the manner of Kate Bowman.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

The problem with that is that Miranda is profoundly principled and Cerberus has gone beyond the pale. It would be OOC for her to stay.

Yeah, I think that's the main issue. There's really nothing about Miranda, as originally presented in ME2, that suggests she would go along with something like Sanctuary, or indoctrinating human beings on a massive scale, etc.

Conceptually, though, it's true that having an antagonist who was once an ally, and who has already been developed as a character, can be much more effective than fighting a guy who is basically just a shallow henchman (in the game anyway, I guess there is more in extended universe stuff).

If Cerberus had never gone off the deep end in ME3, and had stayed more ambiguous, perhaps working alongside Shepard part of the time, but against him at other times, then this might have worked. You could even have continued the romance, theoretically. Which could have been pretty cool.

(The SM makes this really hard to implement, of course, but whatever, just speaking theoretically.)

Modifié par flemm, 23 mars 2012 - 01:48 .

[Dr. Doctor]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Do you think that Miri killed a few Brutes on Earth? Or maybe Banshees?

Do you think she had her own Military Regiment/Squad?

She leads a combined fighter squadron / strike team made up of ex-Cerberus agents. She doesn't strike me as being a heavy-hitter on the battlefield.

If you need something destroyed in a spectacular fashion you call in Shepard, if you need to pull off the impossible or need a plan that's Miranda's department. If you catch her off guard you don't have a problem, but if she's had a chance to plan a course of action you're better off running for your life.

[jtav]

Oh, yeah. If Cerberus were still gray, having a Batman/Catwoman dynamic could have been fun. Miranda would make a fantastic boss fight, and they could actually show her as a femme fatale. Maybe she charmed Shep into getting her past C-Sec and pulled off the assassination without a hitch.

Fun times.

[SNascimento]

Well, she worked with Cerberus for almost 20 years and was the second-in-command. She knew very well was Cerberus was capable of. I don't think staying with Cerberus would go against the character...

[SNascimento]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

She leads a combined fighter squadron / strike team made up of ex-Cerberus agents. She doesn't strike me as being a heavy-hitter on the battlefield.

If you need something destroyed in a spectacular fashion you call in Shepard, if you need to pull off the impossible or need a plan that's Miranda's department. If you catch her off guard you don't have a problem, but if she's had a chance to plan a course of action you're better off running for your life.

.
I agree 100% when you say Miranda's real strength is when she can plan out a mission and execute it, but even though she is not Grunt, Miranda's role as a soldier is underated. I mean, just read her war asset description. If I remember right it says she feels as confortable behind a desk as in a pitched battle.

[jtav]

Yes, it would. Miranda is pretty consistently shown as horrified by things like Teltin. She might be 2IC, but she seems ignorant of their worst excesses and a much better person than shhe really should be.

[flemm]

SNascimento wrote...

Well, she worked with Cerberus for almost 20 years and was the second-in-command. She knew very well was Cerberus was capable of. I don't think staying with Cerberus would go against the character...

Well, the other option is that quite a bit of what Miranda does and says in ME2 is deliberately misleading, intended to deceive Shepard/the player.

I guess it's possible that this was what they had in mind? I dunno. There seems to be a fundamental disconnect somewhere between how Bioware sees the character and how a lot of fans see the character, so maybe that's part of it.

But a lot of what she says in ME2 suggests she sees Cerberus as the equivalent of the Salarian STG, essentially, though not officially sanctioned. She's willing to support some pretty extreme stuff, but not past a certain point (example: not experimenting on Rachni once they were found to be sentient).

So, if the idea was: Miranda knows all about Cerberus atrocities, and condones them, but is just feeding a line of bullsh*t to Shepard, then that certainly doesn't come across in the game.

Modifié par flemm, 23 mars 2012 - 02:10 .

[SNascimento]

jtav wrote...

Yes, it would. Miranda is pretty consistently shown as horrified by things like Teltin. She might be 2IC, but she seems ignorant of their worst excesses and a much better person than shhe really should be.

,
That is in the very least up to debate. I'm not saying she was aware of everything Cerberus have done wrong, but she must have been awere of what TIM was capable of. She is also not a saint. 
.
Shepard must have changed her a lot. 

[flemm]

SNascimento wrote...
She is also not a saint. 

Well, she's not a saint, no. But where she draws the line seems pretty clear in ME2. Pointless cruelty=no. Shooting a traitor=yes. Experimenting on sentient beings=no. Developing controversial weapons technologies=yes. That sort of thing.

Basically she embodies a somewhat more idealistic/moderate view of Cerberus as an organisation that pushes the limit of what's morally acceptable because the goal of protecting humanity/advancing its interests is so important.

Modifié par flemm, 23 mars 2012 - 02:18 .

[jtav]

And of course, there's the resignation. Miranda pretty clearly fits the role of the henchwoman who's more moral than her boss but feels great personal loyalty to him before being seduced by our hero. The only way it would be more archetypal is if she were TIM's daughter or lover.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

And of course, there's the resignation. Miranda pretty clearly fits the role of the henchwoman who's more moral than her boss but feels great personal loyalty to him before being seduced by our hero. The only way it would be more archetypal is if she were TIM's daughter or lover.

Well, we've discussed this before, but you can make the case that, for a while at least, TIM functioned as essentially a surrogate father, after Miranda fled her own father. So, theoretically, that might have led Miranda to overlook/rationalize some of Cerberus' more extreme activities.

But that doesn't really seem to be the main/only reason Miranda is devoted to Cerberus.

Also, re: the resignation, TIM commits the cardinal sin of treating Miranda (and Shepard) as expendable, i.e. repeating the attitude of her own father.

Modifié par flemm, 23 mars 2012 - 02:29 .