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[SNascimento]

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...

And of course, there's the resignation. Miranda pretty clearly fits the role of the henchwoman who's more moral than her boss but feels great personal loyalty to him before being seduced by our hero. The only way it would be more archetypal is if she were TIM's daughter or lover.

Well, we've discussed this before, but you can make the case that, for a while at least, TIM functioned as essentially a surrogate father, after Miranda fled her own father. So, theoretically, that might have led Miranda to overlook/rationalize some of Cerberus' more extreme activities.

But that doesn't really seem to be the main/only reason Miranda is devoted to Cerberus.

Also, re: the resignation, TIM commits the cardinal sin of treating Miranda (and Shepard) as expendable, i.e. repeating the attitude of her own father.

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That is very interesting though. 

[Td1984]

jtav wrote...

Oh, yeah. If Cerberus were still gray, having a Batman/Catwoman dynamic could have been fun. Miranda would make a fantastic boss fight, and they could actually show her as a femme fatale. Maybe she charmed Shep into getting her past C-Sec and pulled off the assassination without a hitch.

Fun times.

Oh boy. Could you imagine coupling allowing the Council to be assassinated with allowing Thessia to fall? That would seriously shake people's faith in Shepard IMO.

Edit: Then again, allowing the Council to be assassinated might not ultimately be much different than allowing the DA to be destroyed with them on board at the end of ME1.

Modifié par Td1984, 23 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[flemm]

SNascimento wrote...

That is very interesting though. 

I think it's an often overlooked part of the resignation scene, but an important one. There's really too much important stuff crammed into that one scene, but TIM orders Miranda to stop Shepard, and she says "Or what, you'll replace me next?" So it's that same idea of "expendability" that seems to be the key.

Also the fact that Shepard has proved her/himself to Miranda by that point, no doubt (works better if Miranda is loyal, obviously), but anyway, TIM behaving too much like her father does seem to be a big part of it. 

She is loyal, and has a hard time believing that he is not (Collector Ship), but in that dialogue, he goes a bit too far.

Modifié par flemm, 23 mars 2012 - 02:38 .

[Skullheart]

Mmm... I have to ask, is miranda antisocial in ME3?

The only character she talks to are Shepard and Oriana. No other characters has any lines to her, it's like she doesn't know anyone besides Shepard and Oriana.

[flemm]

Skullheart wrote...

Mmm... I have to ask, is miranda antisocial in ME3?

The only character she talks to are Shepard and Oriana. No other characters has any lines to her, it's like she doesn't know anyone besides Shepard and Oriana.

I find this irritating. It's partly a biproduct of the fact that she never boards the Normandy, I guess (which she should), but there's no banter at all. It's wierd, and I don't like it. It makes her role feel extremely isolated from the rest of the game.

[Skullheart]

I was replaying Grissom, and almost every character has lines to Jack (Liara, Garrus, EDI, Javik, even Joker on the shuttle). But no one has anything to say to Miranda.

Modifié par Skullheart, 23 mars 2012 - 03:04 .

[jtav]

She also comes off as emotionally fragile and sociopathic. She doesn't care about Cerberus and she dies after being dumped (not directly because of that but still...) If I were trying to make sense of her, I'd come up with someone pathetic.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

She also comes off as emotionally fragile and sociopathic. She doesn't care about Cerberus and she dies after being dumped (not directly because of that but still...) If I were trying to make sense of her, I'd come up with someone pathetic.

Sociopathic? I guess you mean the fact that she doesn't seem to care that she's worked for a terrorist organisation for all those years? It's too clearly bad writing for me to attribute it to the character. But yes, obviously, you'd have to be nuts to not feel more implicated in Cerberus' activities in ME3 than Miranda apparently does. As to the auto-death after break up, it is too dumb to really be worth discussing.

Modifié par flemm, 23 mars 2012 - 03:10 .

[jtav]

Of course it's bad writing and I write it off as such. Hence why I'm still here. But in-universe, well who'd want to date this woman?

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Of course it's bad writing and I write it off as such. Hence why I'm still here. But in-universe, well who'd want to date this woman?

Well, let's leave aside the stupidity of the auto-death upon break-up (which doesn't even really seem to have an anchor in the story, she doesn't behave any differently, it's just gratuitous).

At that point, we only then have to ignore the fact that she was once devoted to Cerberus (which the story basically does), for her actions to be quite courageous and even admirable.

So, if we were starting fresh and this was about some random Alliance operative or whoever, whose sister had been kidnapped by Cerberus, then there really wouldn't be a problem.

Problem is the total disconnect with what we've seen previously, added to the outright wierdness of things like the auto-death on break-up, absence of any interaction with anyone except Oriana and Shepard, etc.

[SNascimento]

Miranda is a bit crazy.
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And Tali getting drunk and speaking about her is pretty cool.

[Vertigo_1]

Always thought it would be interesting if they replaced Dr. Eva with Miranda who's in disguise (Liara wouldn't know it's her), oh the drama that would be had (especially if romanced in 2).

Though I get it, it would require some rewriting of what we got and in ME3 (such as Cerberus being morally grey; I wish they had done this) and ME2 (she would argue to stay back to organize the defense as Shepard moves on to fight the Human Reaper in order to avoid the resignation scene).

Perhaps at some point you can choose between either the VS or her to join your team (the one not chosen would end up as a war asset)

Thoughts? I have an idea what to do with TIM's base as well.

[Skullheart]

What I wanted on TIM base was a dialogue betwen Miranda and him. Then a TIW possible scenario.

[flemm]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Perhaps at some point you can choose between either the VS or her to join your team (the one not chosen would end up as a war asset)

Well, I think this part should have definitely been available as an option, to let you roleplay your allegiance more toward Cerberus and away from the Alliance.

[Skullheart]

Remember the days when someone said that Shepard can choose not to be happry for coming back to the Alliance. Even the most renegade Shepard is happy to be back on blue uniform xD.

[Vertigo_1]

Skullheart wrote...

Remember the days when someone said that Shepard can choose not to be happry for coming back to the Alliance. Even the most renegade Shepard is happy to be back on blue uniform xD.

That was Casey Hudson via Twitter:

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/68335404373377024
"Shepard had no choice but to work with Cerberus in #ME2. But both #ME2 and #ME3 let you roleplay whether you agreed with that."

[SolarTiger24]

Man I just watched the Miranda death scene on youtube. That was more emotionally rewarding than her surviving. But it was just so damn sad to watch, probably the most emotional scene in ME3.

Makes me even more mad they sorta blew her off as a LI in this game.

Modifié par SolarTiger24, 23 mars 2012 - 04:19 .

[SNascimento]

SolarTiger24 wrote...

Man I just watched the Miranda death scene on youtube. That was more emotionally rewarding than her surviving. But it was just so damn sad to watch, probably the most emotional scene in ME3.

Makes me even more mad they sorta blew her off as a LI in this game.

.
It's hard to choose between hers and Mordin's, especially if you shot him. 

[Td1984]

Skullheart wrote...

Mmm... I have to ask, is miranda antisocial in ME3?

The only character she talks to are Shepard and Oriana. No other characters has any lines to her, it's like she doesn't know anyone besides Shepard and Oriana.

Yeah, I brought EDI and Ashley to Horizon. I was hoping Miranda would comment on EDI having gotten a body and/or some words between Miranda and Ash since I brought Miranda to Horizon in ME2 but she said nothing to either of them, which was a bit of a letdown. 

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Perhaps at some point you can choose between either the VS or her to join your team (the one not chosen would end up as a war asset)

Thoughts? I have an idea what to do with TIM's base as well.

I wouldn't mind the idea, so long as the Normandy no longer got stranded on Planet Deliverance (no way I'd want Miranda on the squad if she could wind up stranded, even though headcanon would dictate she gets rescued).

[flemm]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
 I have an idea what to do with TIM's base as well.

Care to share?

Modifié par flemm, 23 mars 2012 - 05:33 .

[Dr. Doctor]

jtav wrote...

Oh, yeah. If Cerberus were still gray, having a Batman/Catwoman dynamic could have been fun. Miranda would make a fantastic boss fight, and they could actually show her as a femme fatale. Maybe she charmed Shep into getting her past C-Sec and pulled off the assassination without a hitch.

Fun times.

Miranda: You know, I deeply regret wanting to implant you with a control chip.

Shepard: I was a complete unknown back then you were being cautious.

Miranda: Caution aside, no one deserves to have someone pulling their strings against their will.

Shepard: Really? And here I thought that's what I have you for?

Miranda: (smirks) I don't seem to recall any resistance on your part Commander. As a matter of fact you're ususally quite receptive.

[Ieldra]

Skullheart wrote...
What I wanted on TIM base was a dialogue betwen Miranda and him. Then a TIW possible scenario.

An encounter between Miranda and TIM should have been there. But I think in ME3, Cerberus as a whole is too tainted to continue. They could've built on the email on the SB terminal and let her create a new organization, added Oleg Petrosky's fleet as resources, but MIranda's hardly the only one who didn't get a story after the events that determined if they died. Everything peters out into nothing. Like the endings. 

[Ieldra]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

As I said in another thread, I saw the Miranda breakup scene yesterday. I had heard there were some tears, but I had no idea what I was in for. Good thing I saved beforehand.

I don't know about anyone else, but I was absolutely mortified when I watched it. I felt like such an ass.

Good
You should feel like an ass breaking up with Miranda. Just know that it gets worse should you play on after breaking up.

[Ieldra]

SNascimento wrote...
Miranda is a bit crazy.
.
And Tali getting drunk and speaking about her is pretty cool.

Except that she always speaks as if Miranda is dead. That soured the scene for me.