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[o Ventus]

jtav wrote...

I think they really wanted to go "Cerberus? What Cerberus?" with Miranda. They're not just indoctrinated, they're evil. Making her have to wrestle with her feelings for them and they she worked for them and rose high in their ranks both makes Miranda a darker character and humanizes Cerberus. Neither of which they want. The side effect is draining Miranda of all that once made her interesting.

In my own opinion, Cerberus turning from the morally ambiguous black op that they were in ME1+2 to the archetypical HYDRA-esque organizations was one of the worst decisions Bioware could have made.

That said, I saw it coming from the other end of town.

Before I forget, they could have had Miranda look back on her time with Cerberus, but decided to ignore all facets of it.

[mrbauxjangles]

jtav wrote...

No, they wanted her to die. You have to jump through a lot of hoops to get her to survive. Her death provides emotional closure. Her survival feels like there's a scene missing somewhere.

Ya i guess when you really think about it they did. I don't know why though but then again no one understand bioware these days. Though atleast you can save miranda unlike thane I feel bad  for the ones who romanced thane.

Modifié par mrbauxjangles, 25 mars 2012 - 07:18 .

[jtav]

I'd actually change places with a Thane fan, at least regarding deaths. He forces Leng to retreat and denies him his goal.

[o Ventus]

mrbauxjangles wrote...

jtav wrote...

No, they wanted her to die. You have to jump through a lot of hoops to get her to survive. Her death provides emotional closure. Her survival feels like there's a scene missing somewhere.

Ya i guess when you really think about it they did. I don't know why though but then again no one understand bioware these days. Though atleast you can save miranda unlike thane I feel bad  for the ones who romanced thane.

Doesn't Thane live if you completely ignore him up to the coup?

Or does it tell you that he died there?

[jtav]

He dies offscreen.

[MisterJB]

I wish you could tell Tali to avoid touching the console much.

jtav wrote...

I think they really wanted to go "Cerberus? What Cerberus?" with Miranda. They're not just indoctrinated, they're evil. Making her have to wrestle with her feelings for them and they she worked for them and rose high in their ranks both makes Miranda a darker character and humanizes Cerberus. Neither of which they want.

Tell me about it. That talk about using the Normandy crew to hide the real Cerberus really got on my nerves.
I always suspected it was meant to keep Shepard comfortable but not only was the 2IC on the ship, saying that there are no other worthwhile people on Cerberus is ridiculous. There are Kai Lengs in Cerberus but there are also Oleg Petrovskys and Mirandas.

jtav wrote...

I'd actually change places with a Thane fan, at least regarding deaths. He forces Leng to retreat and denies him his goal.

If Shepard hadn't been there, Leng would have just walked over Thane's corpse and killed the Councilor.
Miranda planting a tracer on him that ultimately reveals the location of Cronos is more impressive and fruitful.

[yesikareyes]

I really liked the Sanctuary mission, I think Miranda has one of the most memorable roles among the squadmates from ME 2. I'm not counting Garrus and Tali since they were squad mates from ME1 originally.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I think they really wanted to go "Cerberus? What Cerberus?" with Miranda. They're not just indoctrinated, they're evil. Making her have to wrestle with her feelings for them and they she worked for them and rose high in their ranks both makes Miranda a darker character and humanizes Cerberus. Neither of which they want. The side effect is draining Miranda of all that once made her interesting.

You could see that coming - with Cerberus I mean - from way back in ME1, when they depended on emotion-driven faux "morality" to make them come across as evil when they were two-faced. I just didn't expect the degree of the change in ME3. Totally ham-fisted, nothing to think about, just a horde of faceless goons to mow down. No self-respecting written story would get away with this.

[o Ventus]

yesikareyes wrote...

I really liked the Sanctuary mission, I think Miranda has one of the most memorable roles among the squadmates from ME 2. I'm not counting Garrus and Tali since they were squad mates from ME1 originally.

@bold- definitely. Miranda, Thane, Legion, and Mordin all have very memorable roles.

I'm just disappointed that a majority of Miranda's is retreading old ground, whereas Thane, Legion, and Mordin all overcome new challenges (well, maybe not Thane).

[jtav]

And they had Cerberus Redeemed set up beautifully. Miranda the 2IC defeats her boss and "usurps the throne." She, Brynn, and Petrovsky are a spy, a scientist, and a soldier. The three faces of Cerberus on their best form. Together they could have laid the foundation for something better.

[o Ventus]

"Cerberus Redeemed" would likely mean her death, all things considered.

[cg8900]

oh, another thing that got me thinking, in the goodbye talk, miranda says tha she wanted to say goodbye bc if they ever came back, everything would be different....not sure what she meant by that, was she talking about their relationship or just the fact that the reapers would be gone

[o Ventus]

cg8900 wrote...

oh, another thing that got me thinking, in the goodbye talk, miranda says tha she wanted to say goodbye bc if they ever came back, everything would be different....not sure what she meant by that, was she talking about their relationship or just the fact that the reapers would be gone

Probably both.

Earth is decimated, the Reapers are destroyed (or otherwise removed from the equation), your choice of RGB is taken into account, and Shepard may/may not even be alive at the end.

At the very least (for me), I can headcanon and write short stories on Shepard surviving and returning to Miranda.

[TomY90]

cg8900 wrote...

oh, another thing that got me thinking, in the goodbye talk, miranda says tha she wanted to say goodbye bc if they ever came back, everything would be different....not sure what she meant by that, was she talking about their relationship or just the fact that the reapers would be gone

not seen what Miranda says on london if you did not romance with her.

but with the romance one from what I can tell (in my opinion) the reason why she wants say goodbye (but doesnt in the end thanks to shepard) is because of regret, if you knew the person you care about most in your life (maybe except for Oriana) is very likely not to return alive, I know I would regret not saying to your loved one fair well etc.

And plus I think Miranda is one of these peoples who plans for the worst (saying good bye to you) but hopes for the best (you surviving and be able to spend your time together)

[o Ventus]

TomY90 wrote...

And plus I think Miranda is one of these peoples who plans for the worst (saying good bye to you) but hopes for the best (you surviving and be able to spend your time together)

Good point.

[jtav]

I still wanted hologram Miranda to stroke his face.

[cg8900]

I understand why she would want to say goodbye, and I like how shep won't do it...but I don't get why their relationship would be different if they survived and destroy the reapers....

[ThomGau]

Me too. In fact, when Shepard gets closer to her and the camera focuses on their face I though she or he would do that.

[o Ventus]

jtav wrote...

I still wanted hologram Miranda to stroke his face.

Romance exclusive, I would assume.

I was sort of hoping for a conclusion to the conversation to be a little more fulfilling than Shepard and Miranda looking at each other, followed by Miranda dissipating. 

Right before she fizzles out would have been the perfect time for the two of them to confess love to each other, imo.

[jtav]

The galaxy is in ruins win, lose, or draw. Even if the relays hadn't been toast, the galaxy is a very different place from a year ago.

[Ieldra]

cg8900 wrote...
oh, another thing that got me thinking, in the goodbye talk, miranda says tha she wanted to say goodbye bc if they ever came back, everything would be different....not sure what she meant by that, was she talking about their relationship or just the fact that the reapers would be gone

The war reshapes the galaxy. Even without the relays gone, the political landscape would be drastically different. It can also be foreshadowing.

Edit:
Oops, ninja'd.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 mars 2012 - 08:24 .

[Little Red Corvette]

Because people change after war

[jtav]

o Ventus wrote...

jtav wrote...

I still wanted hologram Miranda to stroke his face.

Romance exclusive, I would assume.

I was sort of hoping for a conclusion to the conversation to be a little more fulfilling than Shepard and Miranda looking at each other, followed by Miranda dissipating. 

Right before she fizzles out would have been the perfect time for the two of them to confess love to each other, imo.

Or go the Doctor Who route:

Miranda: Shepard, I l- (fizzles out)

But I don't think we need "I love you." That's what the promises are for. It's their version of "Here's looking at you, kid."

[o Ventus]

Little Red Corvette wrote...

Because people change after war

I don't think that's what Miranda was talking about.

[o Ventus]

jtav wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

jtav wrote...

I still wanted hologram Miranda to stroke his face.

Romance exclusive, I would assume.

I was sort of hoping for a conclusion to the conversation to be a little more fulfilling than Shepard and Miranda looking at each other, followed by Miranda dissipating. 

Right before she fizzles out would have been the perfect time for the two of them to confess love to each other, imo.

Or go the Doctor Who route:

Miranda: Shepard, I l- (fizzles out)

But I don't think we need "I love you." That's what the promises are for. It's their version of "Here's looking at you, kid."

I would prefer they get it out of the way, before Bioware decides to make it another of their pitiful running gags.