82210 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

Synthesis is the chance for physical and mental improvement. Imagine if everyone had a superior immune system or the ability to learn via downloading knowledge.

None of this requires synthesis and it certainly doesn't require it via a magic green beam that lays it out on everyone and at the cost of the relays and surrounding solar systems.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

@ jtav I'm NOT going to break Miri's Heart anytime soon, not ever. She is My ONLY LI, which I have been Preaching for basically more than 2 Years now.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 26 mars 2012 - 05:47 .

[Dr. Doctor]

o Ventus wrote...

They also mooch off of other peoples' technology and hide it from people, so they can use it to artificially advance themselves.

Which is intresting because at the same time they condemn other races from trying to do the same thing.

They're the founding species of the Council, they go out and find less advanced races and introduce them to the galactic community out of "goodwill" while they use their powerful economic and political might to further their goals. Meanwhile to the public the Asari Republics form the most advanced civilization in the known universe while in actuallity they're scambling to keep a leg up on everyone else.

[MisterJB]

Sure there is. The turians are imperialistic but they are honest about it. The asari replace your culture with their own, replace your offspring with their own and then act as if they're doing you a favor.
But yes, all three major races should be distrusted equally. I can't wait until human colonies are being attacked by the yahg because of the salarians.

Asari are hypocriticall because they have a seat on the Council, they help make the laws in this galaxy.
One of the most important laws in the galaxy is that no species may hide the existence of prothean technology which, according to the Council, must be shared with all species. The punishments for hoarding prothean tech are amongs the harshest in the galaxy.
And as it turns out, the asari government knew they had the biggest Prothean Beacon in the entire galaxy on Thessia and not only did they not tell anyone about it, they have been using it for millenia to keep themselves above the other species in the galaxy rather than sharing it with them.
At this point, I really wanted to burn Thessia down myself.

Modifié par MisterJB, 26 mars 2012 - 05:52 .

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...

Sure there is. The turians are imperialistic but they are honest about it. The asari replaces your culture with their own, replaces your offspring with their own and then act as if they're doing you a favor.
But yes, all three major races should be distrusted equally. I can't wait until human colonies are being attacked by the yahg because of the salarians.

Asari are hypocriticall because they have a seat on the Council, they help make the laws in this galaxy.
One of the most important laws in the galaxy is that no species may hide the existence of prothean technology which, according to the Council, must be shared with all species. The punishments for hoarding prothean tech are amongs the harshest in the galaxy.
And as it turns out, the asari government knew they had the biggest Prothean Beacon in the entire galaxy on Thessia and not only did they not tell anyone about it, they have been using it for millenia to keep themselves above the other species in the galaxy rather than sharing it with them.
At this point, I really wanted to burn Thessia down myself.

The underlined: not this again. There is no basis for this, that's all I'm going to say.

Regarding the salarians, that has to be bad writing. I can't believe they wouldn't learn after the krogan. And the yahg are so much worse.

As for the beacon on Thessia, yeah it was underhanded and hypocritical. But try and tell me the other species (including us) wouldn't have done the same.

[cbutz]

In the mass effect universe, sicknesses have pretty much become a non-factor. In addition, just because you are synthetic.organic hybrid does not mean you can hypothetically sick, in fact by being both, you can open up the door of being vulnerable to hacking and computer viruses, if you are really really synthetic. Also, just because everyone is part synthetic, that does not solve the problem of war. In fact original synthetics may feel that they are better than the new synthetics and vice-versa. Also, look at today world, everyone is organic and yet we still fight each other.
In addition, other than the reaper War, the greatest threat to the galaxy was first the Rachni and then the Krogans. Both were organic.
This does not exclude the "space-magic" required to do Synthesis. Geth do not have DNA, synthetic beings do not have DNA. How can you create a new DNA into that which does not have DNA?
Needless to say I do not like any of the endings. I apologize this is off topic though.

Heres a question that has no right or wrong answer, How do you think Miranda would respond to being Synthesized? Would she like it? Would she be mad because she did not have a choice in it?

[MisterJB]

[quote]CrutchCricket wrote...
The underlined: not this again. There is no basis for this, that's all I'm going to say.
[/quote]
It's in the Codex. It's in the travel advisory to Thessia. Thane flat out says that many drell have abandoned their gods to follow the godess of the asari. Female humans and asari wear the same style of clothing.
Everything and everyone describes the asary as culturally dominant. What more needs to be said?
[/quote]


[quote]I can't believe they wouldn't learn after the krogan. And the yahg are so much worse.[/quote]
We agree on this. One yahg became the most powerful information broker in the galaxy. They are stronger than the krogan, smarter than the krogan and do not believe in equality. You are either the leader, the servant or dead.
The only advantage we have is that they do not reproduce as fast as the krogan. Hopefully, otherwise, the galaxy is screwed.

[quote] As for the beacon on Thessia, yeah it was underhanded and hypocritical. But try and tell me the other species (including us) wouldn't have done the same.
[/quote]
We let an asari on Mars to help study the Prothean Archives; the existance of which we had already shared with the rest of the galaxy.
No, humans didn't do the same.

Modifié par MisterJB, 26 mars 2012 - 06:06 .

[CrutchCricket]

cbutz wrote...

In the mass effect universe, sicknesses have pretty much become a non-factor. In addition, just because you are synthetic.organic hybrid does not mean you can hypothetically sick, in fact by being both, you can open up the door of being vulnerable to hacking and computer viruses, if you are really really synthetic. Also, just because everyone is part synthetic, that does not solve the problem of war. In fact original synthetics may feel that they are better than the new synthetics and vice-versa. Also, look at today world, everyone is organic and yet we still fight each other.
In addition, other than the reaper War, the greatest threat to the galaxy was first the Rachni and then the Krogans. Both were organic.
This does not exclude the "space-magic" required to do Synthesis. Geth do not have DNA, synthetic beings do not have DNA. How can you create a new DNA into that which does not have DNA?
Needless to say I do not like any of the endings. I apologize this is off topic though.

Heres a question that has no right or wrong answer, How do you think Miranda would respond to being Synthesized? Would she like it? Would she be mad because she did not have a choice in it?

I agree that techno-organics are not immediately and necessarily better than organics or synthetics. True you can gain the strengths of both. But nowhere is it written that you dodge their weaknesses either. One "part" covering the other doesn't always mean you can overcome anything that would've taken down an organic or a synthetic.

A bit of a correction though. Under the current space-magic application, everything becomes techno-organic. So there wouldn't be any "true synthetics" left. Also no current synthetics have DNA (and DNA itself is a very specific organic compound). But it is possible for some to have a DNA-analogue, a basic building block for synthetic life that functions much like DNA. In fact it may be argued that the geth- purely software already have a sort of digital DNA- being comprised of multiple geth programs which are pesumably distinct from other programs.

Finally regarding your question about Miranda's feelings on it, well that basically adresses one of the biggest problems in general. The problem is choice. Despite whatever advantages may be prescribed to synthesis there is zero chance an entire galaxy would agree to being synthesized. And given Miranda's issues on control I think she'd definitely be in the "you should've asked first" camp.

[cg8900]

about the cards....anyone noticed miranda is queen of spades and shepard king ? lol
not that I know anything about cards...but still

oh, and I have to agree if this would be the "real" ending (I still don't believe it is) synthesis is my favorite

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...
It's in the Codex. It's in the travel advisory to Thessia. Thane flat out says that many drell have abandoned their gods to follow the godess of the asari. Female humans and asari wear the same style of clothing.
Everything and everyone describes the asary as culturally dominant. What more needs to be said?

Ah yes the space wikipedia. We have dismissed that claim. And what a bunch of drell (not all of them mind you) willingly choose to do is hardly indicative of anything. Females wearing the same thing? Could it be, I don't know, generic space fashion? None of this is convincing.

We let an asari on Mars to help study the Prothean Archives; the existance of which we had already shared with the rest of the galaxy.
No, humans didn't do the same.

How much of that was on Liara's own merit as an asari archeologist and how much of that was based on her cred with Shepard and/or the possible knowledge that she was the Shadow Broker? Also this was done during the war. Not the same context. Besides, if it's not our government directly, it's always someone else (think Cerberus, Salarian STG etc.)

Also you still haven't said where you got genocidal from.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 26 mars 2012 - 06:17 .

[enayasoul]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I will hold onto Synthesis with a death grip. Not because I believe in the problem, but because I think the possibilities are neat. I can create hope for the universe, a world of infinite possibility. Including for Matt and Miranda.

So will I. I wonder why so few people see those infinite possibilities. 

Because *it* Synthesis SCREAMS the reaper's plan ALL ALONG!  Take Shepard's body and use it to create a new nation a new being!  We(humanity) are strongest when we are diverse and come together not ALL ONE NATION, ONE RACE, ONE BODY?!

Why isn't that bloody obvious??? 

[jtav]

Except it's clear diversity has been maintained. EDI is EDI and Joker is Joker. They just have extra bits and are probably sexually compatible now. Sign me up.

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Ah yes the space wikipedia. We have dismissed that claim.

The codex is factual. It can make mistake every now and again, example the Reapers, but the idea that it won't have the details on a Council race correct is nonsensical.

And what a bunch of drell (not all of them mind you) willingly choose to do is hardly indicative of anything.

Much like the drell "willingly" choose to serve the hanar? Their culture conditions them serve, they're slaves and don't even realize it.
The same thing happens with the asari and the other species. We believe we are being "accepted into the Galactic Community while remaining a sovereign people", that we "willingly" accept the changes in our culture to fit better.
At least the turians have the balls of calling the volus a "client race". The asari remain self righteous about the entire situation.

 

Females wearing the same thing? Could it be, I don't know, generic space fashion?

 Male Humans, turians and salarians don't wear the same thing. But if there were male asari, I'm sure we would.

How much of that was on Liara's own merit as an asari archeologist

Well, obviously the only person allowed on the dig site will be the one who can make sense of it. It's not a turist attraction.

and how much of that was based on her cred with Shepard and/or the possible knowledge that she was the Shadow Broker?

Doesn't matter. Humanity allowed an asari on Mars to help study the prothean ruins.
 

Also this was done during the war. Not the same context.

During peace time, we still revealed that our ascension was due to prothean archives on Mars.
The asari concealed it, trying to pass themselves off as superior.

Besides, if it's not our government directly, it's always someone else (think Cerberus, Salarian STG etc.)

So? If the Council has the Spectres, Humanity can have Cerberus.

Also you still haven't said where you got genocidal from.

The rachni, the krogan, the cultural genocide the asari inflict on every Citadel Race.

[Ieldra]

enayasoul wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I will hold onto Synthesis with a death grip. Not because I believe in the problem, but because I think the possibilities are neat. I can create hope for the universe, a world of infinite possibility. Including for Matt and Miranda.

So will I. I wonder why so few people see those infinite possibilities. 

Because *it* Synthesis SCREAMS the reaper's plan ALL ALONG!  Take Shepard's body and use it to create a new nation a new being!  We(humanity) are strongest when we are diverse and come together not ALL ONE NATION, ONE RACE, ONE BODY?!

Why isn't that bloody obvious???

Because it isn't. The Synthesis changes the physical makeup of existing llfe at a molecular level. All life on Earth is based on DNA. Is all life on Earth the same? Is there cultural homogenity? Is there racial homogenity?

Your associations are FALSE! Disproven by a whole planet of evidence.

(Besides, Shepard is a biosynthetic organism. Even so, they're still Shepard after Lazarus. ME2 makes a point that they're the same person they were before)

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

Except it's clear diversity has been maintained. EDI is EDI and Joker is Joker. They just have extra bits and are probably sexually compatible now. Sign me up.

I don't know about that. Organic vs synthetic is a pretty big distinction. I don't think you can lump everyone into one category or another and still call them diverse based on appearances. Not to mention that if they were sexually compatible now, then why wouldn't everyone be sexually compatible with everyone else? If that were the case there'd be a lot more interbreeding and you'd eventually arrive at homogenization anyway. So it's not instant it's progressive. But diversity is gone regardless.

[MisterJB]

jtav wrote...
They just have extra bits and are probably sexually compatible now.

I don't think the changes are that deep. Eva Core was supposed to be an infiltration unit, therefore, it's not impossible that it was built with the possiblity of infiltration through seduction in mind thus, why she might be sexually compatible with humans.
But the geth with the quarians for example? I doubt it. They have no distinguishable sexual characteristics.

[enayasoul]

No my knowledge comes from the game itself. You just make up **** to *fit* your story cannon as fact... There is no evidence of any superior qualities you get from the joining. Is it in the codex? Let me go look.

[keegdarv1]

enayasoul wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I will hold onto Synthesis with a death grip. Not because I believe in the problem, but because I think the possibilities are neat. I can create hope for the universe, a world of infinite possibility. Including for Matt and Miranda.

So will I. I wonder why so few people see those infinite possibilities. 

Because *it* Synthesis SCREAMS the reaper's plan ALL ALONG!  Take Shepard's body and use it to create a new nation a new being!  We(humanity) are strongest when we are diverse and come together not ALL ONE NATION, ONE RACE, ONE BODY?!

Why isn't that bloody obvious??? 

plus take into account the thing that tells you it made the reapers pretty much wants you to pick Sythesis

the way I see in when given three choices you have control, destory and submit.  not saying it's wrong if people like it or see it different. I just can't see it as right in anyway, but I dont see destory as killing anyone while other do geth and Edi are just machines as much as they have a nice story of trying to become more thier still just machines

and also your going to tell me after the talk with Miranda about choice and control about the chip she be ok with you making that choice for her or her sister for that fact. I cant think of a squardmate for that matter that would be ok with it, it's the kind of thing I would imange Sarama with her code would try to kill you over changing all people with out their knowing or choice, Edi maybe ok with it but cant picture even Legion would like it

[Ieldra]

enayasoul wrote...
No my knowledge comes from the game itself. You just make up **** to *fit* your story cannon as fact... There is no evidence of any superior qualities you get from the joining. Is it in the codex? Let me go look.

Have you read my thread about it? Look here. I think I have good grounds for my interpretation. Of course there is no canonical interpretation, and I'm not trying to convince you to take this option. What I am trying, however, is to disprove the absurdly negative associations people come up with. "This is what the Reapers wanted" or "We'll all become like husks" is, sorry, bullsh*t of the highest order. The Reapers wanted to fuse whole species into one organism. They turned individual members of species into mindless slaves. That doesn't happen here.

And we should get back to Miranda, Queen of Spades (why is it that I almost wrote Queen of Space, LOL)

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 mars 2012 - 06:56 .

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...
The codex is factual. It can make mistake every now and again, example the Reapers, but the idea that it won't have the details on a Council race correct is nonsensical.

It can be (and probably is) misleading, biased etc. Details aren't everything. Presentation and spin play into it as well.

Much like the drell "willingly" choose to serve the hanar? Their culture conditions them serve, they're slaves and don't even realize it.
The same thing happens with the asari and the other species. We believe we are being "accepted into the Galactic Community while remaining a sovereign people", that we "willingly" accept the changes in our culture to fit better.
At least the turians have the balls of calling the volus a "client race". The asari remain self righteous about the entire situation.

You call the death of their planet and the hanar taking them in "cultural conditions"? Like it or not the drell are now dependent on the hanar. Not so with any other species and the asari. Same thing with the volus. They made a deal with the turians. No one made such a deal with the asari.

 

 Male Humans, turians and salarians don't wear the same thing. But if there were male asari, I'm sure we would.

Humans turians and salarians have different body shapes. That would just be ridiculous. Presumably if there's some cross dressing human male out there he might wear the same thing as an asari. What of it? That doesn't make it an asari fashion. That just makes it generic space fashion (with a twist).

Doesn't matter. Humanity allowed an asari on Mars to help study the prothean ruins.

Yes it does. If the decision was "Hey let's get Shepard's pal to help us" and not "let's get the blue alien chick" then yes it matters. And again different conditions. We were at war, our planet was burning and we didn't have enough resources to do it ourselves.
 

During peace time, we still revealed that our ascension was due to prothean archives on Mars.
The asari concealed it, trying to pass themselves off as superior.

Every race "ascended" because of the Protheans including the asari. What's your point?

So? If the Council has the Spectres, Humanity can have Cerberus.

The council isn't one race, it's a collective. And I wasn't referring to operations but ideologies.

The rachni, the krogan, the cultural genocide the asari inflict on every Citadel Race.

The rachni were everyone's problem, it was a joint decision. The krogan was all turian and salarian doing. I reject any further nonsense of "cultural" genocide.

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Have you read my thread about it? Look here. I think I have good grounds for my interpretation. Of course there is no canonical interpretation, and I'm not trying to convince you to take this option. What I am trying, however, is to disprove the absurdly negative associations people come up with. "This is what the Reapers wanted" or "We'll all become like husks" is, sorry, bullsh*t of the highest order. The Reapers wanted to fuse whole species into one organism. They turned individual members of species into mindless slaves. That doesn't happen here.

And we should get back to Miranda, Queen of Spades (why is it that I almost wrote Queen of Space, LOL)

I'm gonna be honest, I only quoted your post for the underlined:lol:.

But while I'm at it I will say that despite it's problems (mostly in implementation) synthesis doesn't really imply "this is the Reaper Master plan". Hell if that were true why bother with this cycle bull**** anyway? As soon as the Reapers show up, have them construct the Crucible and "synthesise" everyone. They have about as much choice in the matter as they do if Shepard does it.

Of course all this does is further point out how incredibly retarded the RGB really is (as if we needed any more proof).

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 26 mars 2012 - 07:03 .

[Vertigo_1]

Ieldra2 wrote...
And we should get back to Miranda, Queen of Spades (why is it that I almost wrote Queen of Space, LOL)

ALL HAIL THE QUEEN OF SPACE!

[CrutchCricket]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
And we should get back to Miranda, Queen of Spades (why is it that I almost wrote Queen of Space, LOL)

ALL HAIL THE QUEEN OF SPACE!

Reposted for support!

[Ieldra]

LOL.

I suspected this picture would come up.

[Asakawa]

MisterJB wrote...

Asakawa wrote...

if you think that the normandy is the greatest war symbol amongst all battleships in that battle.... and having they simply fleeing away like that.

yeah, talking about morale!

It gets worse. The transmission of matter between Relays is instantaneous. Therefore, if the Normandy barely managed to escape the explosion, Joker had to have used the Relay just mere seconds before it was hit by the Crucible.
So, what the hell was he thinking? "OMG, giant laser beam! It's soooooo pretty! Let's see where it goes!" or maybe he saw what was happening and decided "Hell no! I am not getting trapped in the Sol System with the rest of you losers. Screw you guys, I'ma going to Thessia!"

ok, it's definitely getting COMPLICATED for me to read this while I'm at work. I'm laughing too much!!