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[enayasoul]

Ieldra2 wrote...

enayasoul wrote...
No my knowledge comes from the game itself. You just make up **** to *fit* your story cannon as fact... There is no evidence of any superior qualities you get from the joining. Is it in the codex? Let me go look.

Have you read my thread about it? Look here. I think I have good grounds for my interpretation. Of course there is no canonical interpretation, and I'm not trying to convince you to take this option. What I am trying, however, is to disprove the absurdly negative associations people come up with. "This is what the Reapers wanted" or "We'll all become like husks" is, sorry, bullsh*t of the highest order. The Reapers wanted to fuse whole species into one organism. They turned individual members of species into mindless slaves. That doesn't happen here.

And we should get back to Miranda, Queen of Spades (why is it that I almost wrote Queen of Space, LOL)

That's just it. It's YOUR INTERPRETATION...  If you listend at all to the game dialogue you would HEAR it plainly.  The god-awful child tells you the same thing. How they created the reapers and what the reapers are?  From past civilations they conquered... the best parts of the species... only the "advanced" or one's they take notice of are Ascended, by whatever means you want to think up...  each and every reaper is a past civilization that was utter destroyed and "uplifted" according to harbinger. 

The Protheans failed to be a reaper... thus why the Reapers turned them into slaves, the collectors.  Mordin even tells you in ME2 that the collectors are nothing but mindless creations.  Do you honestly believe you will be BETTER off joining the Reapers?  They won't let you control your own bloody destiny!  The god child tells you this!   Shepard was right you might as well be machines but we'll have NO FREE WILL...  

The Reapers do IN FACT turn all the species in the galaxy into mindless SLAVES... The brutes, the Asari' banshee's you name it?  What do you think you were fighting???  They were not alive!  

[Dr. Doctor]

We know what happens to organics through synthesis, but what do EDI and the Geth become?

My only problem with Synthesis is that:

a) Shepard makes a huge choice for all organic life with it having no choice in the matter

I feel the need to mutter the Green Lantern oath under my breath when the Crucible goes off.

[Blarty]

Just as a quick comment on Synthesis, which ieldra has done a fantastic job of dissecting in another thread, i'm not going to reach to much into the rewriting of DNA at a base level, but if we understand DNA to be the base construct that makes us, erm, us, then is there a possibility that in fact the synthesis is a DNA code locked benign, benevolent nanide enhancement, tailored to each person in effect reaper enhancement without any malignant side effects or loss of free will? And whilst I know it goes against what is said literally in-game, it effectively works as counterpart to DNA; in that it is as individual as the person that it is symbiotic with, in essence it is is perfect synthesis with a individual's DNA?

Just as a quick edit, clearly a DNA code lock wouldn't work for EDI or the Geth, but would instead have to be installed analogous to part of the synthetic subjects free will, in other words, against something which makes the synthetic an individual

Modifié par Blarty, 26 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[Asakawa]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
And we should get back to Miranda, Queen of Spades (why is it that I almost wrote Queen of Space, LOL)

ALL HAIL THE QUEEN OF SPACE!

HUZZAH!!!!

Queen of Space, hahah! I like that! Damn, c'mon shift, you gotta end! i'm crazy to go back home and work on those drawings.

Yeah.

Queen of Space will do =p

[CrutchCricket]

As much as I want to rant on the endings, I really do believe we should get back to Miranda. Hell we just named her Queen of Space. I think Her Grace would like her thread back lol.

[Blarty]

Okay back to Miranda, is everyone happy with her regret over the implant chip?

[jtav]

I'd have phrased it differently. I don't mind it as such, but it's symptomatic of my problem with her in ME3: the loss of her rough edges.

[CrutchCricket]

Blarty wrote...

Okay back to Miranda, is everyone happy with her regret over the implant chip?

I am, and more so by the fact that I didn't see it coming. I guess hanging around here for so many months before the game came out inadvetedly made me expect a... harsher Miranda.

I don' think there can be any doubt as to how much a romanced Miranda cares for Shepard. I don't think she was kidding about the whole "love" thing in ME2...

jtav: The "loss of her rough edges" as you say is no loss at all when it comes to Shepard (if romanced). She should be ruthless with her enemies but Shepard is among those that hold her heart.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 26 mars 2012 - 07:40 .

[flemm]

Blarty wrote...

Okay back to Miranda, is everyone happy with her regret over the implant chip?

Well, I like what Shepard has to say during that dialogue. This was apparently revised, as there is another version in the leaked script and sound files that doesn't have that element of Shepard bringing up Lazarus as a whole to balance out the regret over the chip.

As to Miranda's end of it, I agree with jtav that it is somewhat symptomic of the loss of Miranda's harder edge, which I think is important to maintain.

That said, I think it's actually good that Miranda connects her father's domineering attitude (that she has always wanted to escape) with her own attitude toward Shepard at the beginning. However, it doesn't really go anywhere, partly because the confrontation with the father is basically devoid of content.

So, basically, I think it's ok as such, but should have been part of a larger character arc that never materializes.

Modifié par flemm, 26 mars 2012 - 07:47 .

[MisterJB]

jtav wrote...
the loss of her rough edges.

Perhaps but, at the same time, it is one of the few times her character shows real growth in ME3.
The subject was worthy of introspection and she was not wrong when she compared herself to her father.

I would probrably appreciate it more if there were other examples during the game where she showed her ability to make hard choices for the greater good.

Modifié par MisterJB, 26 mars 2012 - 07:42 .

[Ieldra]

@enyasoul:
You recounted perfectly what the Reapers' goals and methods are, yes.
You said exactly *nothing* about the Synthesis.
The connection you make between the two is completely arbitary.

@all:
Sorry for the continued OP but it had to be said. I've kept it short.

@Blarty:
I think hvaing regrets about it is in-character, but Miranda would've never put in such terms. "I wanted to give Oriana the chance to make her own choices, but I thought nothing about denying you the same" - that would've been appropriate. I don't think Miranda has much appreciation for free will as a metaphysical concept.

[Caihn]

Blarty wrote...

Okay back to Miranda, is everyone happy with her regret over the implant chip?

I really like the conversation (Miranda and Shepard lines), but I also think there were more important things to talk about.

Modifié par Yannkee, 26 mars 2012 - 07:45 .

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
jtav: The "loss of her rough edges" as you say is no loss at all when it comes to Shepard (if romanced). She should be ruthless with her enemies but Shepard is among those that hold her heart.

While the dialogue is not romance-exclusive, I think it's true that Miranda's relationship with Shepard has evolved enough at this point that it makes sense, at least in most scenarios, for her to be relatively open with him.

Moreover (and this is the good side of the whole exchange), it really doesn't have much to do with Shepard, it's the result of introspection on Miranda's part, she feels she needs to take responsability for being too much like her father on that occasion. So, that makes sense.

If it were balanced with Miranda maintaining a harder edge in other contexts, I think it would be fine. But we don't see enough of that. 

Yannkee wrote...

I really like the conversation (Miranda and Shepard lines), but I also think there were more important things to talk about.

Agreed on that point as well.

Modifié par flemm, 26 mars 2012 - 07:47 .

[MisterJB]

flemm wrote...
If it were balanced with Miranda maintaining a harder edge in other contexts, I think it would be fine. But we don't see enough of that.

Mayhaps the answer we are looking for can be found in the execution of her father. She just kills him without hesitation to remove the threat he might pose in the future. Much like she executed Wilson and argued for the destruction of the Heretics.
Unfortunately, we are still lacking an example of her consequentialism.

Agreed on that point as well.

True, it didn't exactly set up a tone for the romance.

Modifié par MisterJB, 26 mars 2012 - 07:52 .

[Caihn]

CrutchCricket wrote...

I don' think there can be any doubt as to how much a romanced Miranda cares for Shepard. I don't think she was kidding about the whole "love" thing in ME2...

Never had doubts about this. That's one of the reason why Miranda's romance is my favorite.


btw, a little gif I made :

Modifié par Yannkee, 26 mars 2012 - 08:24 .

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...
Mayhaps the answer we are looking for can be found in the execution of her father. She just kills him without hesitation to remove the threat he might pose in the future. Much like she executed Wilson and argued for the destruction of the Heretics.

It may have been intended that way. The bit of dialogue where she says something about "I'm glad he's dead, I'm sorry if that sounds cold" picks up a bit on that as well.

I think there are too many good reasons to kill this guy for that to really work as an example of Miranda's harder edge still being present, though. She's also too close to it personally for it to work as an example of "professional" Miranda.

But you could be right as to the intent. 

Modifié par flemm, 26 mars 2012 - 08:13 .

[jtav]

I have no problem with her apologizing, since I think she was wrong and Shepard is very dear to her by then, romance or no. But I wish her more controversial aspects were on display and/or Oriana had been killed of between games.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I have no problem with her apologizing, since I think she was wrong and Shepard is very dear to her by then, romance or no.

I'm not sure if it's possible to have that conversation with an unloyal Miranda, but if so, that probably doesn't really fit. But otherwise, yeah.

Anyway, I agree that more balance was needed. That's basically my issue with the whole thing. The mission on Sanctuary needed to be balanced with Miranda joining up for TIM's base. And the more emotional dialogues with Shepard needed to be balanced by Miranda's all-business side when she's interacting with other characters in other situations.

Modifié par flemm, 26 mars 2012 - 08:05 .

[yesikareyes]

Quick question guys if you reject Miranda and choose not to reaffirm the relationship, does that affect the dialogue or story at all? Or the game simply just reverts to the "just friends/unromanced" dialogue?

[CrutchCricket]

yesikareyes wrote...

Quick question guys if you reject Miranda and choose not to reaffirm the relationship, does that affect the dialogue or story at all? Or the game simply just reverts to the "just friends/unromanced" dialogue?

Miranda drops dead.

Ok not really, but she does get killed by Kai Leng as a result.

[yesikareyes]

CrutchCricket wrote...

yesikareyes wrote...

Quick question guys if you reject Miranda and choose not to reaffirm the relationship, does that affect the dialogue or story at all? Or the game simply just reverts to the "just friends/unromanced" dialogue?

Miranda drops dead.

Ok not really, but she does get killed by Kai Leng as a result.

She'll die during Sanctuary? Will she still contact you talk in the spectre office and in the presidium? 

[flemm]

yesikareyes wrote...

She'll die during Sanctuary? Will she still contact you talk in the spectre office and in the presidium? 

Yes, everything else is the same as a regular non-romance playthrough, but she cannot survive.

[CrutchCricket]

yesikareyes wrote...


She'll die during Sanctuary? Will she still contact you talk in the spectre office and in the presidium? 

Not sure of the details. But basically you need to give everything she wants for her to survive. That means:
Warning about Kai Leng
Alliance Resources
Your love<3

[jtav]

I'll never stop ranting about that particular death condition. It punishes players who are attracted to a LI previously unavailable to them and to wish to do the honorable thing. I just want to run off with Kaidan. Miranda shouldn't die over it.

[MisterJB]

It must be to fit into the "Vixen who seduced the hero away from his true love AKA Liara" and "Redemption equals death" roles.
Who wrote this sh*t?