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[Master Chief Petty Officer Alcatraz]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...


I could stare into those baby blues all day. She is so beautiful and hot it's ridiculous!

Perfect woman

[LuxDragon]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

*snip*

I could stare into those baby blues all day. She is so beautiful and hot it's ridiculous!

In that scene, I think its the point. That way, you never see the gun coming.

[Ieldra]

LuxDragon wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
*snip*

I could stare into those baby blues all day. She is so beautiful and hot it's ridiculous!

In that scene, I think its the point. That way, you never see the gun coming.

Note that this is a retouched version. I removed the red pupil Miranda has in the original. That looks quite creepy and also a little threatening. Here's the comparison:

Original


Retouched version:


I do agree, however, that she looks more alluring in this picture than almost anywhere else in the game. Also,  these are made with JeanLuc's high-res textures.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 juillet 2011 - 08:23 .

[Jebel Krong]

AstronautN7 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...i would totally agree if arrival hadn't (stupidly) destroyed your very notion - they had shepard for 2 days and did nothing to him - and the problem being - as a dlc - they can't carry the consequences forward more than in passing if they did decide they had done something in the meantime, because you can't assume everyone played the dlc (and newcomers won't understand a development suddenly compromising them like that).

Sorry to bring above back after a couple of pages. Maybe I don't understand what you wrote correctly (English is not my 1st language) however I thought that the Arrival and Shadow Broker happen anyway for ME 3 regardless if you played them or not in ME2. 

they do, but it's just as hard to insert important plot detail x into ME3 from a line of text because you didn't play the dlc, as it is to retroactively do so if you did play the dlc, but they didn't show it on-screen (and actually, they went out of their way to say nothing happened in that time).

[Jebel Krong]

Arijharn wrote...

I'm not sure why you brought up Sovereign though; because if Shephard is 'insignificant' now as of the events of Arrival, then he was beneath notice during the events of ME1. Shephard was just another face really. It was only after the events of ME1 that Shephard actually started to get 'important' I think, at least as far as how the Reapers view it anyway.

only because sovereign is a reaper and personally tried to kill shepard (took control of saren's body), so i was using that to illustrate evidence against your argument, is all.

[Ieldra]

New old topic: Miranda's father's agenda.

I keep thinking about those notions of a genetic dynasty. Miranda's father never appeared as particularly stupid to me, especially in the face of him being an extremely successful businessman, so I wonder how he planned his way around the problem that a genetic dynasty makes no sense unless you can keep the engineered traits undiluted and distinctive through the generations.

I mean, in every new generation of normal reproduction with a normal human Miranda's (and her sisters') enhancements would be roughly halved in effect, until nothing special would be detectable any more except a few remnants on the genetic level. And should she have unique dominant traits, a similar problem would appear - her children might inherit and express them, but only half of her grandchildren would and so on.

Which means, you can't keep a genetic dynasty distinctive and undiluted without additional measures above and beyond the engineering of the enhanced traits. Which would that be, considering that you can't depend on future generations touching up the genetic engineering?

I'm almost sure the writers didn't think of this when they made Miranda's character concept. Should we do their work for them? At the moment I have a few vague ideas about it, but it might mean getting a little fancy with the science. Any ideas? If we get to deal with these things in ME3, I'd like there to be at least a hint of some scientific grounding.

I'm assuming, btw., that Miranda will be able to have children one way or the other, but the problems with the "genetic dynasty" notion exist even if she can't. Also there's always Oriana.

[Arijharn]

Lux, I really think you should publish the next chapter regardless... in other words me dun wanna wait a week for the next chapter

It isn't one of those correspondence chapters is it?

[Swaggacide]

I want Miranda as a permanent squad and want my romance to be a factor throughout the entire game not just a cut scene or one mission. Miranda is my favorite character and I want her to represented properly in Mass Effect 3.

[Swaggacide]

I want Miranda as a permanent squad and want my romance to be a factor throughout the entire game not just a cut scene or one mission. Miranda is my favorite character and I want her to represented properly in Mass Effect 3.

[GuitarShredUK]

MisterJB wrote...

And just so (get it? I'm hilarious, I know) this post isn't completely useless, here's something that'll annoy jtav.

I'm very much looking forward to the "fight scenes" between your current and "ex" LIs - this pic really brought it home, thanks JB. I keep on playing through this scene in my head where Liara and Miranda have the mother of all biotic b****fights after a really heated argument over each other's differing views on Shepard and their relationship with him (read: me ). However, unlike Jack's outburst against Miri after Pragia I wouldn't want to see this on the Normandy due to the possibility of collateral damage, preferably planetside somewhere (Ilium maybe?).

Now I'm not saying these two would be at each other's throats right from the off, both are great speakers and negotiators although I doubt Miri would take to well to Liara using her "I'll make your body fit into a coffee cup" threat.

[goofyomnivore]

Ieldra2 wrote...

New old topic: Miranda's father's agenda.

I had a left field theory that Mr. Lawson was born with genetic defects and suffers from them. Creating an insecure man that wanted to prove his genetics are perfectly fine, so he created near perfect daughters out of his poor genetics. I could see that going with Miranda's egomaniac comment and unecessary pushing her to the limits to prove the worth of his genes. Maybe by doing this it cleans his genetic pool of defects, so it enables a heathly and very capable Lawsons throught the line.

I also think Miranda wasn't intended to be the heir for the dynasty, and he made her infertile on purpose. I think she was just the one lucky enough to show potential to be a test subject to see how far he can push his genetics. I really think Oriana was his true heir.

I really don't know what his plan is with the word "dynasty", atleast from a gentic pov. As you pointed out Ieldra2 it doesn't really make much sense from the genetic side.

Modifié par strive, 12 juillet 2011 - 11:21 .

[Ieldra]

strive wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
New old topic: Miranda's father's agenda.

I had a left field theory that Mr. Lawson was born with genetic defects and suffers from them. Creating an insecure man that wanted to prove his genetics are perfectly fine, so he created near perfect daughters out of his poor genetics. I could see that going with Miranda's egomaniac comment and unecessary pushing her to the limits to prove the worth of his genes. Maybe by doing this it cleans his genetic pool of defects, so it enables a heathly and very capable Lawsons throught the line.

That would be a setup worthy of a comic book villain. I very much hope it doesn't prove true.

I also think Miranda wasn't intended to be the heir for the dynasty, and he made her infertile on purpose. I think she was just the one lucky enough to show potential to be a test subject to see how far he can push his genetics. I really think Oriana was his true heir.

It doesn't make sense that Miranda was infertile on purpose if you take the LotSB dossier seriously, for it implies that there was a time when Miranda had been fertile. Oriana is also genetically identical to Miranda and that wouldn't make sense if the infertility was (a) intentional or ( caused by a genetic factor. I think it's much more likely it was caused by her eezo implants.

Otherwise, yes, I also think Oriana was to be an improvement on Miranda, but not on the genetic level but rather in the way her biotics would have come about and possibly in her conditioning to whatever he wanted her to be. I'm sure he wanted to make her a biotic as well only it didn't come to that because of Miranda's intervention.

I really don't know what his plan is with the word "dynasty", atleast from a gentic pov. As you pointed out Ieldra2 it doesn't really make much sense from the genetic side.

I think this falls into the "sci-fi writers don't know enough about science" category. But we made sense of other "impossible" things like Miranda being a biotic, and she got more interesting because of it. Maybe we can do it again.

[Lumikki]

Are you saying Oriana isn't bionic?

I allways consider that Miranda and Oriana are geneticly same and differences are comming from life experience it self. Oriana has more normal life and Miranda a lot harder.

[scythe dark 7th]

*de-lurks*

I've been lurking in the different Miranda forums for a while & i feel like speaking up right now. it's always nice to see what the (more vocal) Miranda fans have to say...

Ieldra's post suddenly sparked a lot of ideas in my head considering Miranda's genetics.
we all assume that Miranda was the culmination of her father's genetic dynasty but what if she wasn't. Let's say that because there were many that came before Miranda that it was a bit trial and error. A person like her father, I think, would choose to have his 'genetic dynasty' as male. But then through all that trial and error they discovered that the only was they could make sure those 'Perfect Traits' could be passed on would be if they used females instead. With that, they continued their trial error to make sure the heir was 'Perfect'. Until we get to Miranda. Now, she has all the potential they're looking for, so she's kept. But little do they know that because of the steps they went through, Miranda, as she gets older she gets problems w/ fertility. Making her another 'failure'.

It makes it interesting because that could be the another reason they created Oriana (I'm not sure, which came first between her escape & Oriana's creation), to fix the mistake they made with Miranda. Which could make Oriana the 'dynasty' they're looking for...

What do you guys think?

Oh, and another think. Do any of that there is a possibility that it was actually Cerberus that created Miranda? We know her father is a very wealthy businessman but would he have the the scientists he would need for it? Another thing is the facilities, wouldn't something like their doing be a bit hard to hide(I would assume that even Miranda's father's company would still have some oversight. And that Cerberus has the facilities & scientists to make it happen... It could also be that the massive funds dumped by Miranda's father is meant for the creation of his heirs & that their taking in of Miranda is like 'taking product that he paid for'. It gives Miranda a deeper connection with Cerberus, as if she needed anymore...

Anyway, let me know what you guys think. Keep up the discussions. I'm really liking this thread...
Peace...

*re-lurks*

[Ieldra]

Lumikki wrote...
Are you saying Oriana isn't bionic?

I allways consider that Miranda and Oriana are geneticly same and differences are comming from life experience it self. Oriana has more normal life and Miranda a lot harder.

Biotic ability is not a genetic trait in humans.

The thing is this: Miranda can't be a "standard" biotic created by eezo exposure in the womb, because she was born in 2150, before the first eezo accident in Singapore in 2151. She can't have been intentionally exposed because the effect of manifesting telekinetic powers in some survivors was discovered only in 2156.

We've been over that. The most likely scenario is that Miranda is a biotic artificially created at an age between about 7 and 11 by a surgical procedure adapted from the krogan (see ME wiki about that).

Now, Oriana could have been intentionally exposed, but given the failure rate of that I don't think Mr.X would have done that. Rather I think that Oriana was scheduled to undergo the same procedure as Miranda, only it didn't come to that.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 juillet 2011 - 12:59 .

[MisterJB]

Lumikki wrote...

Are you saying Oriana isn't bionic?

I allways consider that Miranda and Oriana are geneticly same and differences are comming from life experience it self. Oriana has more normal life and Miranda a lot harder.

Biotic abilities are not a genetic trait amongst any race besides the Asari. Miranda's eezo nodules wouldn't carry over to Oriana. Otherwise, biotics would be a lot more widespread across the galaxy.
Exposing fetus to Eezo is leaving things to chance and, if Miranda is anything to go by, the Lawsons don't trust in luck. So, it's possible that Mr. Lawson was waiting for Oriana to mature a few years before the procedure to implant eezo nodules directly into her nervous system. Miranda just got to her first.

Modifié par MisterJB, 12 juillet 2011 - 02:02 .

[Ieldra]

scythe dark 7th wrote...
Ieldra's post suddenly sparked a lot of ideas in my head considering Miranda's genetics.
we all assume that Miranda was the culmination of her father's genetic dynasty but what if she wasn't. Let's say that because there were many that came before Miranda that it was a bit trial and error. A person like her father, I think, would choose to have his 'genetic dynasty' as male. But then through all that trial and error they discovered that the only was they could make sure those 'Perfect Traits' could be passed on would be if they used females instead. With that, they continued their trial error to make sure the heir was 'Perfect'. Until we get to Miranda. Now, she has all the potential they're looking for, so she's kept. But little do they know that because of the steps they went through, Miranda, as she gets older she gets problems w/ fertility. Making her another 'failure'.

The problem with that is the same as above: apparently Miranda's infertility is very likely not not genetic and it was a progressive condition, which means it very likely it was not apparent when Oriana was created. Otherwise, see my answer to strive. The same reasoning applies. It is plausible that Oriana rather than Miranda was intended to be the "true heir", but genetic factors can't come into it.

Oh, and another think. Do any of that there is a possibility that it was actually Cerberus that created Miranda? We know her father is a very wealthy businessman but would he have the the scientists he would need for it? Another thing is the facilities, wouldn't something like their doing be a bit hard to hide(I would assume that even Miranda's father's company would still have some oversight. And that Cerberus has the facilities & scientists to make it happen... It could also be that the massive funds dumped by Miranda's father is meant for the creation of his heirs & that their taking in of Miranda is like 'taking product that he paid for'. It gives Miranda a deeper connection with Cerberus, as if she needed anymore...

if Mr X is the CEO and majority owner of a large conglomerate, which appears likely given what we know of him, it's very possible that he could've hidden things. From whom would he have to hide, anyway? Genetically enhancing existing human traits is not illegal, and back then things had been even more permissive. Also, a biolab can be hidden rather easily. It's not as if you a large infrastructure to support it.

Also, when Miranda was created (2150) Cerberus didn't exist - Jack Harper was put on the path to become TIM in the First Contact War in 2157. Later, though, they would've become very interested in what he was doing once they became aware of it - something I have elaborated on in my fanfic "Promethean Legacy" - but they couldn't have had any influence on Miranda's creation.

[scythe dark 7th]

@Ieldra
Than it's actually possible that neither Miranda nor Oriana is the "Dynasty" their looking for. Oriana could also develop those same fertility problems( being Miranda's genetic twin). And that Mr. X could be misguided in thinking created perfection in those two, when he only only created a dead end instead. But that would depend if Miri's infertility is because of the genetic tampering, i guess.
I don't think Mr. X would have done it on purpose though...

Modifié par scythe dark 7th, 12 juillet 2011 - 01:43 .

[Ieldra]

scythe dark 7th wrote...
@Ieldra
Than it's actually possible that neither Miranda nor Oriana is the "Dynasty" their looking for. Oriana could also develop those same fertility problems( being Miranda's genetic twin). And that Mr. X could be misguided in thinking created perfection in those two, when he only only created a dead end instead. But that would depend if Miri's infertility is because of the genetic tampering, i guess.
I don't think Mr. X would have done it on purpose though...

Let's just say I don't want them to be a dead end. That's the reason why I argue for some solution, however roundabout, to Miranda's fertility problem so vehemently. As I said, I also don't think Miranda's infertility is likely to be genetic and it should be easy to find a way around it given the ME universe's level of biotechnology.

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

New old topic: Miranda's father's agenda.

I keep thinking about those notions of a genetic dynasty. Miranda's father never appeared as particularly stupid to me, especially in the face of him being an extremely successful businessman, so I wonder how he planned his way around the problem that a genetic dynasty makes no sense unless you can keep the engineered traits undiluted and distinctive through the generations.

I mean, in every new generation of normal reproduction with a normal human Miranda's (and her sisters') enhancements would be roughly halved in effect, until nothing special would be detectable any more except a few remnants on the genetic level. And should she have unique dominant traits, a similar problem would appear - her children might inherit and express them, but only half of her grandchildren would and so on.

Which means, you can't keep a genetic dynasty distinctive and undiluted without additional measures above and beyond the engineering of the enhanced traits. Which would that be, considering that you can't depend on future generations touching up the genetic engineering?

I'm almost sure the writers didn't think of this when they made Miranda's character concept. Should we do their work for them? At the moment I have a few vague ideas about it, but it might mean getting a little fancy with the science. Any ideas? If we get to deal with these things in ME3, I'd like there to be at least a hint of some scientific grounding.

I'm assuming, btw., that Miranda will be able to have children one way or the other, but the problems with the "genetic dynasty" notion exist even if she can't. Also there's always Oriana.

geneered genome with permanent dominance expression in desired traits = no dilution. of course given the - apparent - fertility problems, it may well be that artificial means are necessary anyway.

[scythe dark 7th]

@Ieldra
Oh, I see. I respect that. I guess I also wouldn't prefer her possibilities limited in that way. I'm just hope there was a way to reason it out if (Bioware forbid), makes it official. I do wish I'd never even heard of that SB dossier...

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...
geneered genome with permanent dominance expression in desired traits = no dilution. of course given the - apparent - fertility problems, it may well be that artificial means are necessary anyway.

That only applies to traits that act like a 0/1 switch - either they're there or they're not. I don't know enough about genetics and can't say which traits are like that, but I'm sure things like a longer lifespan are determined by many different factors from both parents' genome. Dilution will happen for some traits at least.
And for those dominant traits that do act as 0/1 switch, Mendelian rules still apply: even if Miranda is an 11, her children will be all 01s expressing the trait, but some of her grandchilden will inevitably be 00s. No chance of anything to express itself.
 

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
geneered genome with permanent dominance expression in desired traits = no dilution. of course given the - apparent - fertility problems, it may well be that artificial means are necessary anyway.

That only applies to traits that act like a 0/1 switch - either they're there or they're not. I don't know enough about genetics and can't say which traits are like that, but I'm sure things like a longer lifespan are determined by many different factors from both parents' genome. Dilution will happen for some traits at least.
And for those dominant traits that do act as 0/1 switch, Mendelian rules still apply: even if Miranda is an 11, her children will be all 01s expressing the trait, but some of her grandchilden will inevitably be 00s. No chance of anything to express itself.
 

if you control the expression, then you control the process - it's not presently possible now, but we're only beginning to understand it. in reality, you'd only need to control a few of the important ones anyway - and that's way less than 1% of total number of genes. a lot of expressions - like ageing are dependent on a number of different things, yes, but that adds more control over the sequence, not less. tbh i doubt it's entirely possible to 100% control it naturally, unless you can go in and re-write some genes in-vitro using tailored RNA, perhaps virally introduced, but then some level of genetic modification seems to be the norm for alliance people anyway.

edit: oh an genes are a "yes"/"no" switch - ie. gills: y/n, 4 limbs: y/n, it all comes down to binary choices in the end, reduced to a chemical sequence, just some operate in chains and are dependent on others being triggered as well.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 12 juillet 2011 - 02:23 .

[goofyomnivore]

That would be a setup worthy of a comic book villain. I very much hope it doesn't prove true.

I think he is going to be a villain. I hope he is more morally grey. I hope there is more grey in Mass Effect period.

It doesn't make sense that Miranda was infertile on purpose if you take the LotSB dossier seriously, for it implies that there was a time when Miranda had been fertile. Oriana is also genetically identical to Miranda and that wouldn't make sense if the infertility was (a) intentional or ( caused by a genetic factor. I think it's much more likely it was caused by her eezo implants

I just don't think someone spending that much time/money on something isn't going to have an idea of fertile or infertile. I think if he had any slightest doubt she would become infertile he would of canned her like the ones before her. Although that theory doesn't go well at all with the dossier and "progressive damage". He may not of designed it in Miranda, but I think he would be aware of the possibility, and just used her as Oriana's beta tester to see how far he could push a young girl.

[Melra]

Or he just didn't count on her running away and planned her to have kids quite fast, so it wouldn't have mattered.