82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Skullheart]

There's no good ending:

Blue: doesn't change anything, just delay the things.

Red: Genocide against the geth, just to keep Shepard alive?

Green: violating the evolution itself. There no final stage of evolution, it will steal all the potential of the organics, even the species that still are primitive and haven't achieved his peak as organics. Damn, even the plants are part synthetic now.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

.....What would God/Jesus do? Destroy to save life, or Salvage even the the darkest of creatures, like the Reapers?

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I want and Independence for ALL life. Synthesis STILL doesn't convince me, that there IS Freedom and Independence.

[kookie28]

Honestly, I came to destroy the Reapers and I did. I guess my Shep is kind of a sociopath.

[Skullheart]

I wish we could give free will to the reapers, that should be a better ending. They are the ghosts of the previous civilizations, and slaves of the Catalyst (for me the starchild is the bad guy of the game).

[MisterJB]

Skullheart wrote...
Green: violating the evolution itself. There no final stage of evolution, it will steal all the potential of the organics, even the species that still are primitive and haven't achieved his peak as organics. Damn, even the plants are part synthetic now.

EDI can change any part of herself at will. Thus, the possibility for changes to organics in the future is not out of the table.
Natural evolution is not necessarely better than artifical, forced evolution.

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Why? The Citadel, AND the Relays are gone. 

They could have gone without the Glowing Green eu=ys and glowing skin in Synthesis. What would Everyone's reaction be to THAT? What would Miri's Reaction be?

With Control, Shepard can order the Reapers to rebuild the Relays or simply to transport the aliens to they systems. If his entire ideals are not changed by the communion with the Reapers, of course.

With Synthesis, the possiblities are endless. Organics may be able to survive without food thus, the risks of running out of resources in the Sol System are diminished and the quarians and the turians are not at risk of starving. The lifespan of organics may increase thus, enabling the aliens to survive the trips back to their homeworlds through FTL.
We may even be able to reach consensus, thus preventing war over the resources of the Sol. The geth can still form consensus but they have indiduality now. Who's to say this is impossible for organics.

[Nightwriter]

Giving them free will would be dangerous, but I can't deny that it's an extremely appealing ending.

[MisterJB]

Maybe Synthesis gave them free will now that the Cycle is over.

[Dr. Doctor]

I'd have prefered if Shepard was the only one who was subject to Synthesis. ME3's theme of control versus free will sort of falls apart with how it's currently written with Shepard imposing peace through the combination of synthetic and organic:

Catalyst: There is another way. Synthesis, the blending of organic with synthetic. With the power of the Crucible you could-

Shepard: - could what? Turn the people I've tried to save into nothing better than the abominations your kind twist us into?

Catalyst: No, you fail to comprehend what we are capable of.

Shepard: Then help me understand! 

Catalyst: You would need the abillity to see the universe as we do. To gain that knowlegde would require...alteration.

Shepard: Like what you did to Saren?

Catalyst: No. You would become more like us and we would become more like you. Nothing more, nothing less.

Shepard: I'll still remain free?

Catalyst: Yes.

Shepard: If I accept, can I leave? Can I share the insight I gain with my allies to make my decision?

Catalyst: You must choose.

Shepard: I can't just decide the fate of every civilization.

Catalyst: Their choice is irrelevant. The fact that you are the first organic to stand here makes you singularly qualified to choose how this ends.

Shepard: I refuse. (gestures at the Earth) Every race in the galaxy is fighting down there because they don't want a future that's dictated by your damned cycles. We've made mistakes that lead to chaos, but the fact that we're all here working alongside each other proves that it doesn't have to be that way. I'll let you change me, but in exchange I want the war to stop, and I want the chance to create a peace that isn't forced on everyone.

Catalyst: Very well.

The boy disappears and there is a flash of green light. The scene cuts to the battle above Earth, suddenly the Reapers stop their attack, in the streets of London the machines cease their advance and silence falls over the battlefield. There is a flash of light from the Conduit, and from the beam emerges Shepard; his wounds healed and a green glow emanating from his eyes. The scene then fades to black and the credits roll.

[Td1984]

@MEFFL101:

"Synthesis is the only correct ending."

/sarcasm

Truth is, all of the endings are awful (dare I say dreadful or pathetic?). It's really up to your own personal opinion as to which one is best. Personally, I can't bring myself to take anything other than Synthesis. I hate Destroy because I like the Geth. In fact, if I couldn't push for peace, I'd let them wipe out the Quarians and not think twice about it. Also, I really like EDI. At the risk of sounding like I'd shag anything, if she wasn't strictly for Joker, I'd consider making a Shep for her. Since Destroy would kill them, I can't accept that ending.

As for Control, there's a saying "Absolute Power corrupts absolutely." Plus, there's no way of returning to your LI (that I could headcanon anyway) while remaining wherever you would have to be in order to control the Reapers. Also, assuming the Citadel is still destroyed in that ending, it would be kind of hard for your LI to find you and join you there. So I don't find that option palatable either.

Of course, that's just my opinion and I don't want to force it on anyone either, just like I don't like other people trying to force their opinions down my throat either (not that you are).

Modifié par Td1984, 30 mars 2012 - 05:54 .

[goofyomnivore]

With Synthesis, the possiblities are endless.

Endless in both directions. I mean you could get something great, or you could get stagnation from a galaxy no longer being motivated by basic needs such as food and sleep, and your inevitable natural death.

All the endings suck. I gave up trying to like one. You can paint them all a bit nicer, although none of them solve any problems, and they don't really fix the 'cycles' problem.

Modifié par strive, 30 mars 2012 - 05:58 .

[Ieldra]

Skullheart wrote...
I wish we could give free will to the reapers, that should be a better ending. They are the ghosts of the previous civilizations, and slaves of the Catalyst (for me the starchild is the bad guy of the game).

Guess what? The Synthesis does. Why do you think they leave in the green ending? There isn't a controlling instance any longer since the Citadel is destroyed, they could go on reaping if they wanted, but they don't. This is one thing I find compelling about the Synthesis.

As for Miranda, she always worked for humanity's advancement. This is an advancement, not just of humanity, but of everyone. I think Miranda would be intrigued by the possibilities.

@strive:
What sucks is that you don't have a choice about destroying galactic civilization. They need to fix that.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 mars 2012 - 06:06 .

[MisterJB]

Few things are more natural than fear of the unknown. However, we should not allow it to prevent our development.
What if we had never ventured to discover what lay beyond the oceans? What if we had never activated the Charon Relay?
Synthesis is an enormous risk but the potential rewards are so much greater. Ridding ourselves of all the weaknesses that come with being organic. The things the Reapers could teach us and the wonders organic creativity could create with that knowledge and power.

[goofyomnivore]

I've slowly warmed up to Synthesis. I still think I prefer Control due to it possibly maintaining the status quo. Citadel surviving and solid speculation(god I hate this word now thanks to you Mac) of the relays surviving. Although being mentally entombed in the Citadel seems very unpleasant. I don't know what I'd do with the Reapers.

To be on topic: I think Miranda would pick Synthesis too.

[Dr. Doctor]

All civilizations want control over their own future.

The Krogan want the Genophage cured so their society can develop on its own terms. The Asari use the Prothean Beacon to advance their technology so that they can have control over the galactic community. The Salarians use the STG to manipulate other races so that they don't have to live in fear of the future. Humanity has Cerberus.

All of these races eventually come into conflict with each other because their ideals of freedom of choice disagrees with the similar concepts held by other civilizations. This results in war and the chaos associated with it. The Reapers act as the ultimate limit to unchecked free will. By making civilization develop along the patterns that they set so that they have the ultimate say in the final outcome. They're the self-proclaimed watchdogs of society.

Destroying the Reapers removes this constraint. It works off of the concept that individuals are inherently good and they'll make the right decisions in the long run. Could everything fall to chaos? Perhaps, but it's our risk to take.

Controlling the Reapers affirms their assumption. Intelligent life when left with morality as it's only limiting factor will ultimately destroy itself. The cycle ensures that will never come to pass, and the only way to keep life from destroying itself is to impose limits upon it. It isn't an ideal solution, but considering what's at stake it's a prudent choice.

Synthesis admits that both sides of the argument is wrong and offers the chance to have the benefits of both and the weaknesses of neither. The beacons, Crucible, and the research done by the various races shows that when faced with hurdles we will apply ingenuity and creativity to surmount them. Merging with synthetics could mean that civilization can hold beliefs in the same high-minded ideals such as free will without the issues that currently arise from them. We've been trying to imitate gods by controlling the world around us through science and technology, here's our chance to steal fire from the gods and see what happens.

[wright1978]

I refuse to accept any of the current endings. They are just BS spouted by a genocidal maniac. Don't see why Shep should take anything he says at face value let alone choose between his silly 3 options.

[Ieldra]

@Dr Doctor:
Yes, I think that's part of the philosophy behind the current choices. In that sense, they're all "good" because they all have a rationale that you could get behind. The problem is that the game fails to present them in that way and riddles everything with bad consequences until no choice feels like a victory.

As for Miranda, I started Cerberus HQ yesterday. It never fails to send me up the wall that Miranda/Cerberus is never explored in the game. A whole character-defining aspect of her has been lost. That she's shown by her actions that she doesn't support them any more doesn't count, because any decent person would. Even Kelly has more with her single sentence "That's not the organization I joined" you get when you talk to her after Rannoch.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I get the feeling Miranda was supposed to be with Ori originally, but the letter put things back up in the air.

I think it's very clear she's in the Sol system with her being a war asset and Shepard saying "good that you could make it."

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

Asakawa wrote...
by the way, anyone has a good shot of a class F Fighter? *points to avatar*

I wholeheartedly approve.

The idea of Miranda in one of these makes me smile For some reason I can't put the finger on, that feels utterly appropriate.

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Hmm, maybe not mentioning it actually works in our favor. Right now its omission makes it seems so insignificant, maybe it's not even a thing, just a scribble the writers forgot which somehow ended up ingame.

It's a nonissue, so much so that they don't even need to waste time retracting it or fixing it.

Unfortunately it's not a non-issue. It's referenced in the long death scene, which is the one non-imported games get as well as those where you sided with Jack in ME2, which together is a majority I think.

BTW, does anyone else resent this way of giving her fans what they want while still telling the majority of players what they (Bioware) want, namely Miranda dead? *Fumes*  

[ThomGau]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Unfortunately it's not a non-issue. It's referenced in the long death scene, which is the one non-imported games
get as well as those where you sided with Jack in ME2, which together is a majority I think.

Well the fact that she alludes to her infertility during the extended death scene is up to interpretation.

On one hand, sure you can conclude she refers to her inability to conceive but on the other hand she may mean that she can't and maybe doesn't deserve to have a normal woman life with all the things it involves (husband, children...).
Maybe it alludes to both of these hypothesis. It's unclear like many things in this game.

I don't like this sterility issue but I would have liked it to be brought up. There could have been an interesting and loving dialogue between Miranda and Shepard.
For example, Shepard reassuring her, she surely feels uneasy about it. He'll still love her and would never reject her for that. Then they could envisage resolutions etc... Besides, as we already said many times, it must be child's play for Miranda to cure that problem.

BTW, does anyone else resent this way of giving her fans what they want while still telling the majority of players what they (Bioware) want, namely Miranda dead? *Fumes*  

*scratches head* What do you mean ?

Modifié par ThomGau, 30 mars 2012 - 09:39 .

[Ieldra]

ThomGau wrote...

BTW, does anyone else resent this way of giving her fans what they want while still telling the majority of players what they (Bioware) want, namely Miranda dead? *Fumes*  

*scratches head* What do you mean ?

They wanted Miranda dead. So they made sure she'll end up dead in most players' games. If there's ever a post-ME3 canon, Miranda will be dead in it. Add that her survival leads nowhere....

All right, all ME2-exclusives are treated that way, but this is no way to handle a character with a plot potential like Miranda's.

[ThomGau]

Ah ok silly me

Agreed, I resent this. What they've done to the ME2 cast is despicable, they created great characters but they didn't how to handle them after ME2 so they threw them aside. Some got luckier than others but still ...
Among them, Miranda had the biggest plot-potential, let's hope our voice will be heard and aknowledged.
Frankly, this isn't even just for us, Miranda fans. I think anybody (even haters) who has played ME2 will confirm that, by comparison, her role is lacunar. And the same thing can be applied to the other ME2 characters.

Modifié par ThomGau, 30 mars 2012 - 12:46 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

......Give me ONE Good Reason WHY the Reapers would not use Synthesis to their Advantage, so that they would create a Widespread Galactic Control/Indoctrination? Give me ONE Good Reason WHY Miri and EVERYONE Else would accept Synthesis as a new way of life, instead of freaking out that there bodies have been manipulated/changed.<_<<_<

Tell me why choosing Synthesis doesn't let anyone down, those who fought and sacrificed their lives to defeat the Reapers and END this War.<_<

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 30 mars 2012 - 01:05 .

[Urdnot wpc]

if you synthesize you might not survive if you did not save the collectors base but if you destroy it you will survive but you will kill edi and the geth as well as the reapers