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[flemm]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
This is why my original idea was that for ME2 during the SM: She would die if Shepard dies (much like Liara does if your EMS is low in ME3), that way the writers could have more breathing room, so to speak, to implement her in ME3 proper. As a scientist (with ideals and goals  -- remember she wanted a human STG), a combatant, and someone who cares for her sister deeply. Each in equal parts.

Well, that would have been fantastic

[CrutchCricket]

Nightwriter wrote...
As it is, the confrontation we do get is pretty unsatisfying.

Due in no small part to the totally underwhelming presence of Lawson himself.

[flemm]

Nightwriter wrote...

flemm wrote...

Well, Nightwriter, I think you should send those thoughts to Visii in a PM, well put ;-)

I dunno. All I really said there was, "Please fix it." I'm not sure that's a unique sentiment, or one worth adding, since it's bound to be stated anyway.

I think it's worth it. What you said may boil down to "please fix it," but it was eloquently and succinctly put. Basically everything we say on the subject is going to boil down to "Please fix it," but we should still say it.

[jtav]

To be perfectly blunt, I don't actually care about Henry or Oriana, and they would stay safely in the background if I were in charge.

But here's my idea:

Henry has found Oriana. However, just kidnapping her is extremely likely to end in Miranda or Cerberus seeking retribution. So, he decides to handle this himself, with Eclipse providing security. You fight through Henry's bodyguards, but Henry has already reached Oriana. He paints himself as a grieving father who just wants to reconnect with his long-lost daughter. He also sells the advantages of having him as a father, tempting Oriana with his vast wealth. Miranda tries to explain why she took Ori, but Henry twists her words to make her seem like a raving lunatic. Shepard must step in and convince Ori her father is bad news, either through P/R or an item picked up on the mission. If he fails to do so, Ori voluntarily leaves with her father and Miranda has what can only be called a nervous breakdown. If Shepard passes the check, Oriana wavers and Henry completely loses it, ranting about how he owns both his children. Miranda shoots him.

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...
Henry has found Oriana. However, just kidnapping her is extremely likely to end in Miranda or Cerberus seeking retribution. So, he decides to handle this himself, with Eclipse providing security. You fight through Henry's bodyguards, but Henry has already reached Oriana. He paints himself as a grieving father who just wants to reconnect with his long-lost daughter. He also sells the advantages of having him as a father, tempting Oriana with his vast wealth. Miranda tries to explain why she took Ori, but Henry twists her words to make her seem like a raving lunatic. Shepard must step in and convince Ori her father is bad news, either through P/R or an item picked up on the mission. If he fails to do so, Ori voluntarily leaves with her father and Miranda has what can only be called a nervous breakdown. If Shepard passes the check, Oriana wavers and Henry completely loses it, ranting about how he owns both his children. Miranda shoots him.

Interesting. But I still don't feel like Lawson is in control enough of that situation. I think he should competely dominate the encounter and Shepard and Miranda could try and talk him down but eventually they realize it's futile and only direct action can save them. I also don't see him trying to convince anyone of anything. He should just demand it and have the power to enforce that demand.

But maybe we just have different visions of the character. Hmm I do have a procedural question for you jtav, asking of advice as it were. How would you a) bring back Lawson post-ME3 and change his characterization without simply denying his portrayal in the game? The first should be child's play given he basically died a Disney death (falling off screen). The second I expect would be more difficult.

[jtav]

I loved Henry, so I'm probably the wrong person to ask. But, in general, you just want to expand without contradicting what's already there. Add traits.

And Henry can be charming. He does pretty much what I describe if Miranda is dead, telling Ori he's sorry and just wants to get to know her. Reading between the lines, I gather Oriana's adoptive parents are dead. She goes with him willingly.

[Nightwriter]

flemm wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

flemm wrote...

Well, Nightwriter, I think you should send those thoughts to Visii in a PM, well put ;-)

I dunno. All I really said there was, "Please fix it." I'm not sure that's a unique sentiment, or one worth adding, since it's bound to be stated anyway.

I think it's worth it. What you said may boil down to "please fix it," but it was eloquently and succinctly put. Basically everything we say on the subject is going to boil down to "Please fix it," but we should still say it.

I was expecting someone like Tywin Lannister.

Henry is so not Tywin Lannister. So not. But in all fairness, he was given very little screentime with which to impress us.

[MisterJB]

Leave ME2 alone. What Miranda needed, much like Cerberus itself, was a proper arc that allowed the game to adress all of the issues inherent to it instead of random encounters and side missions here and there. It could have extended from Citadel Coup or Thessia to Cronos Station and culminated with either destruction or redemption and hope for a new future.

Tuchanka and Rannoch did this perfectly. We had several missions with very clear objectives that all connected to each other somehow. And, best of all, it allowed the writers to present both sides of the argument. The krogans are dangerous but just how much of it is due to the Genophage? Is there no hope for the krogan?
And then , it let the players come to their own conclusions rather than hit us with the morality hammer over and over again.

So, Grissom, Sanctuary, Glexia(? where Jacob was) should all have been connected to each other by more than the type of enemy we fight. And Miranda could have been an integral element on all of these missions much like Wrex is on the Normandy until the very end of the Genophage Arc.

It feels like they blew all their money, resources and best writers on Tuchanka and Rannoch to make them masterpieces while Cerberus; Hell, any issue introduced in ME2; was left as an aftertought.

Modifié par MisterJB, 01 avril 2012 - 12:21 .

[jtav]

Or they could've just done as MisterJB said.

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...
It feels like they blew all their money, resources and best writers on Tuchanka and Rannoch to make them masterpieces while Cerberus; Hell, any issue introduced in ME2; was left as an aftertought.

Meaning Patrick Weekes, basically, I think.

I feel like Walters can't have gotten his way with Cerberus, given the way the crit path in ME2 is written, and how he always talks about loving the organisation's ambiguity. But that's just speculation, of course.

Modifié par flemm, 01 avril 2012 - 12:39 .

[Dr. Doctor]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
This sounds better but, what about her father?

You could always have the shuttle be intercepted by Cerberus forces during the extraction from Gellix. Keep Sanctuary as-is.

[Vertigo_1]

MisterJB wrote...
So, Grissom, Sanctuary, Glexia(? where Jacob was) should all have been connected to each other by more than the type of enemy we fight. And Miranda could have been an integral element on all of these missions much like Wrex is on the Normandy until the very end of the Genophage Arc.

Yep.  And Brynn would have made an excellent replacement to Miranda in this case (if she is dead in your import).

[flemm]

By the way, a couple of posters have asked me via PM about our tweets regarding more Miranda content. I'll just answer in the thread in case anyone else is interested.

It seems that tweeting Michael Gamble, Casey Hudson and Mac Walters makes the most sense (probably more or less in that order).

So that's: @GambleMike, @CaseyDHudson and @macwalterslives

This is the wish list you may want to link in your tweet:

http://social.biowar...9/1772#10778625

Modifié par flemm, 01 avril 2012 - 12:55 .

[MisterJB]

Honestly, I would rather see Oriana step up to the challenge.
Much like I would have preferred if Maelon was Mordin's replacement. Ignoring the fact that he could die, of course.

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...

Honestly, I would rather see Oriana step up to the challenge.
Much like I would have preferred if Maelon was Mordin's replacement. Ignoring the fact that he could die, of course.

Hmmm, that's also a good idea, though Brynn has the Cerberus connection, whereas Orianna really doesn't. Could have been Brynn for part of the time, and Orianna for Sanctuary, I suppose.

[Skullheart]

Couldn't Oriana just die at the beginning of ME3?

It could create a more tragic Miranda, and it will avoid the LM 1.2

[Nightwriter]

flemm wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

flemm wrote...

Well, Nightwriter, I think you should send those thoughts to Visii in a PM, well put ;-)

I dunno. All I really said there was, "Please fix it." I'm not sure that's a unique sentiment, or one worth adding, since it's bound to be stated anyway.

I think it's worth it. What you said may boil down to "please fix it," but it was eloquently and succinctly put. Basically everything we say on the subject is going to boil down to "Please fix it," but we should still say it.

Well, all right then. I copied it and sent it to Visii.

[flemm]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well, all right then. I copied it and sent it to Visii.

Cool

Modifié par flemm, 01 avril 2012 - 01:07 .

[jtav]

We need screens

[jtav]

I will say I like Miranda's new look better.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I will say I like Miranda's new look better.

She looks great

[MisterJB]

Killing Oriana is not going to marginally improve Miranda's role in ME3 no more than Liara thinking Feron was dead stopped her from hunting the Shadow Broker.
It would just be about revenge rather than rescue.

Honestly, the layout of Miranda's role is good. For a start.
Miranda deals with the ghosts of her past by confronting her father (or she should have) and it doesn't feel like a pointless or selfish pursuit because it happens on one of cerberus' most important bases. At the same time, Sanctuary is Cerberus' moral event horizon and one could even find things in common between what Henry did and Miranda's control chip. From there, you can go in many different interesting directions, including the Control Chip Convo we already have.
It's great.

The problem is that it ends there. Miranda doesn't actually come to terms with Cerberus and there is not even a great discussion betwen herself and Henry.

[Skullheart]

For me she's still an impostor. Well, I'll just blame the writer for sacrifing an interesting character, just to avoi her being more interesting than the blue mascot.

Modifié par Skullheart, 01 avril 2012 - 01:18 .

[cyborg2501]

jtav wrote...

We need screens

Anyone else think that Shep looked really goofy in this scene? "C'mere"... looking abit sleazy... still awesome

[Lawrence0294]

flemm wrote...

By the way, a couple of posters have asked me via PM about our tweets regarding more Miranda content. I'll just answer in the thread in case anyone else is interested.

It seems that tweeting Michael Gamble, Casey Hudson and Mac Walters makes the most sense (probably more or less in that order).

So that's: @GambleMike, @CaseyDHudson and @macwalterslives

This is the wish list you may want to link in your tweet:

http://social.biowar...9/1772#10778625

thanx that helps :happy: