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[jtav]

Now if we could just convince them to give us an onscreen kiss that doesn't involve death...

[Skullheart]

What I don't like from that scene is that Miranda is so miserable, she isn't the confident woman I knew in ME2. Then a "come here" changes her totally... I just don't like it, I want my leading woman there.

[merikano]

Hooray, finally got up the nerve to finish ME3 since I bought it when it first came out nearly a month ago. As a latecomer I'm not sure how most others feel about it (though I'm nearly hundred percent positive that most in this thread were unhappy with the amount of screentime - or lack thereof - Miranda got in ME3) but me I think they didn't do bad but it definitely could've been a lot better. I hear that Miranda got mroe screen time than any of the other ME2 characters and I also remember all the talk about how there's no way BW could give each character their due in ME3 during the buildup to ME3 but still. The core game took me about 30 hours to complete? The first game had twice that at least and the second game had a bunch of more hours as well. I understand EA is a **** when it comes to time constraints but I feel as if ME3 was rushed and could've given the Miranda (or any of the ME2 characters really) some more time and maybe even temporary squadmates for a mission.

So just that, I think. More time. Especially since none of the characters had any singular loyalty type missions of their own but simply backed you up as you went through the main storyline.

Modifié par merikano, 01 avril 2012 - 01:24 .

[flemm]

kratos0294 wrote...
thanx that helps :happy:

No problem

[MisterJB]

I like that scene, it's one of the rare moments of growth in ME3. She did some introspection and came to the conclusion she may have been hypocritical and more similar to the person she most despises than she would like.
And when Shepard turned the flirt on, she did the same.
Just counterbalance it with a scene where she shows more confidence.

[flemm]

Skullheart wrote...

What I don't like from that scene is that Miranda is so miserable, she isn't the confident woman I knew in ME2. Then a "come here" changes her totally... I just don't like it, I want my leading woman there.

It's ok, though, conceptually, that Miranda struggles a bit with her demons, even a lot. But it should lead to actual growth. From a standpoint of character development, that dialogue is almost undoubtedly the best in ME3 for Miranda because it shows Miranda pondering her past actions in light of her upcoming confrontation with her father.

A similar line of thinking should have been present with regard to her work with Cerberus. Not necessarily identical, but along the same lines, i.e. Miranda coming to terms with her past actions as she heads out to deal with the current crisis. To really do this, you would need to go from Sanctuary/Henry to Cerberus/TIM's base. But even that's basically lined up so it would be easy to implement.

The pieces are there for a great story that includes a lot of real character growth, but it just doesn't happen. Either the writer just wasn't up to the task, the line budget was stretched too thin, or there was no sincere interest in telling such a story to begin with (or some combination of those things).

Modifié par flemm, 01 avril 2012 - 01:35 .

[merikano]

BTW, am I the only one who thought that maybe having a bedside picture of Shepard's LI would've been too much to ask? In ME2 you had one of Ash or Kaidan or Liara and if you stayed loyal to them then the night before the end rtun you had your Shep just looking at it with longing.

Okay, end rant. The game was awesome and the ending decision was very fitting IMO. Here's to BW and death to EA for being a **** about time restraints.

[MisterJB]

Tali got one.

It would be even better if Miranda and Jack would just join with Shepard for the attack on Cronos Station. They both have very good reasons to be there, thus dispensing with the need for a bedside picture.


edit: Helly, Jack can be found there! As a Panthom!

Modifié par MisterJB, 01 avril 2012 - 01:43 .

[Skullheart]

You can't have a pic of her because she was Ceberus and they are all bad people. Even If Shepard has a pic of her on his desk Liara will go there and replace it with one of hers.

[Nightwriter]

Skullheart wrote...

What I don't like from that scene is that Miranda is so miserable, she isn't the confident woman I knew in ME2. Then a "come here" changes her totally... I just don't like it, I want my leading woman there.

Miranda has always been hard on herself, has always driven herself to meet high standards. It didn't strike me as that much of a change.

In ME2, when Miranda started in on the "the only thing I can take credit for are my mistakes" bit, I felt a palpable invitation to comfort her.

Not so in the apartment scene when she says neither of you have the luxury of going easy on yourselves because there's too much at stake.

[jtav]

And I hate that I'm essentially blackmailed into continuing the romance. My Shepards aren't cads but being honorable means death for her.

[Vertigo_1]

MisterJB wrote...

Tali got one.

It would be even better if Miranda and Jack would just join with Shepard for the attack on Cronos Station. They both have very good reasons to be there, thus dispensing with the need for a bedside picture.


edit: Hell, Jack can be found there! As a Panthom!

Doesn't Kelly give you a picture (of her) if you are romancing her?  Though something tells me she 'gives' you one but you don't actually get to see it.

And, I can't see Jack on Cronos Station.  Miranda? Definately.  Jack has her students now, and we did help her get revenge in her LM (I believe she dies in Grissom Academy if she's not loyal).

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 01 avril 2012 - 01:56 .

[MACharlie1]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Tali got one.

It would be even better if Miranda and Jack would just join with Shepard for the attack on Cronos Station. They both have very good reasons to be there, thus dispensing with the need for a bedside picture.


edit: Hell, Jack can be found there! As a Panthom!

Doesn't Kelly give you a picture if you are romancing her?  Though something tells me she 'gives' you one but you don't actually get to see it.

And, I can't see Jack on Cronos Station.  Miranda? Definately.  Jack has her students now, and we did help her get revenge in her LM (I believe she dies in Grissom Academy if she's not loyal).

I think Jack is more appropiate for a mission where we actually confront the Illusive Man - not just stroll into his office and steal his crap. In my last playthrough, Jack was unloyal (due to siding with Miranda during arguement) and makes it through the entire game unharmed. 

[flemm]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
And, I can't see Jack on Cronos Station.  Miranda? Definately.  Jack has her students now, and we did help her get revenge in her LM (I believe she dies in Grissom Academy if she's not loyal).

Agreed. Not that I'm opposed to seeing Jack there at all, but the way the roles are written, it is less natural. This is due to the fact that Jack has moved on and has new responsabilities. Miranda has simply dealt with her personal demons, she still needs to move on.

Joining up for the base allows this to happen. Had the role been structured differently, it might come across as less necessary (a bit like Jack), for example if Miranda were already leading her own independant organisation of ex-Cerberus operatives. I imagine it would still be desirable for Miranda to be there, but it would probably feel less necessary.

Modifié par flemm, 01 avril 2012 - 01:57 .

[jtav]

It comes down to her role being that of Leng chow. It always comes down to that.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

It comes down to her role being that of Leng chow. It always comes down to that.

Largely, yeah. The fact that she can be killed by Leng is not a problem, but the fact that the role goes nowhere when she survives is a problem.

Modifié par flemm, 01 avril 2012 - 02:06 .

[merikano]

One thing I am wondering about that maybe one of yah could help me with but if you go the option where Shepard sacrifices himself how would continuing a relationship with Miranda through DLC (as unlikely as such DLC even being made) be even possible. I haven't done the other two endings yet but I imagine the one were you kill all synthetic life is really the only one you would have a shot at her with post-reaper invasion.

Heck I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my Shepard now that he's dead but somehow walking and talking on the Normandy. Would this DLC come after or before the final assault? My head hurts.

[flemm]

Well, everybody's head hurts

But I guess DLC would have to preceed the endings. And I suppose it will, regardless of whether or not there is any related to Miranda or the other LIs.

Modifié par flemm, 01 avril 2012 - 02:27 .

[cyborg2501]

Sappy, but I'm still semi-pissed we didn't get an I love you on the last vidcomm. Still, it's interesting how the author can still convey her love for Shepard through the death scene. It's like, well, we don't see it in this playthrough, but we know it exists in her. Almost makes the buildup even better. (For what it's worth, I think we'll see more...)

[Nightwriter]

merikano wrote...

One thing I am wondering about that maybe one of yah could help me with but if you go the option where Shepard sacrifices himself how would continuing a relationship with Miranda through DLC (as unlikely as such DLC even being made) be even possible. I haven't done the other two endings yet but I imagine the one were you kill all synthetic life is really the only one you would have a shot at her with post-reaper invasion.

Heck I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my Shepard now that he's dead but somehow walking and talking on the Normandy. Would this DLC come after or before the final assault? My head hurts.

Either the DLC needs to come out after the ending DLC's, or the DLC needs to take place before the end of the game.

You can do LotSB before the suicide mission, for instance.

[jtav]

I think people place too much stock in "I love you." What I do envy in the death scene is the tenderness: the way she strokes his face as he cradles her, the gentle way he says "let's get you out of here." I like the playfulness, but I wanted a chance for Matt to hold her for awhile.

[Nightwriter]

I don't mind a lack of "I love you's" if it's stated clearly in other ways, but it wasn't.

I want the whole shebang: on screen kisses, declarations of feelings, tenderness, pillow talk, well done sex scenes. Sadly, I cannot have it.

[cbutz]

Remember to PM Visii about ME 2 Li's , it would also be a good time to maybe include some hints about what we would like from a Miranda DLC.

[cyborg2501]

jtav wrote...

I think people place too much stock in "I love you." What I do envy in the death scene is the tenderness: the way she strokes his face as he cradles her, the gentle way he says "let's get you out of here." I like the playfulness, but I wanted a chance for Matt to hold her for awhile.

Still, they're 3 of the most powerful words a person can say. And it's not something you expect to hear, or even feel to some extent, in a game. I actually agree with the authors decision not to include them in anything but the death scene up until this point - Miranda doesn't seem like the type to throw those words out lightly. But when she does, you'll know she means it.

The tenderness was refreshing... I wish in ME2 when you called her up to your cabin in was more like that (except more pillowtalky, less dying...) as opposed to a clunky animation that just felt... awkward

[enayasoul]

cg8900 wrote...

random thought here
I was just watching some vids from me2, and miranda does say if you try to romance someone else, that "...every one on this ship needs to know that you're mine"
now that means she isn't that private about her realtionship right? so a kiss on the first meeting at cidadel wouldn't have hurt at all

Well, if you look/examine the vidcom while Miranda talks with Shepard. She seems to be picking her words carefully because of that Alliance officer close by...

She tells Shepard that she wishes she was there... she pauses looking back at Shepard. "With you."  It's almost as if she is distracted by the alliance guy or something in the background.

Again in the second vidcom she is "looking" at something not in our view... 

Just seems... that she might actually be private about her relationship being known.

Miranda tells Shepard she didn't contact him because of the "alliance"  her being ex-Cerberus and all.  She played it safe for the both of them.