82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Skullheart]

The writers wanted Miranda dead. A post-ending or fix-ending DLC is a perfect chance to kill her how they wanted.

[CrutchCricket]

Skullheart wrote...

The writers wanted Miranda dead. A post-ending or fix-ending DLC is a perfect chance to kill her how they wanted.

You don't know that. Maybe they thought it'd be good drama to kill her but you have no proof for the view that they just want her dead. If they added a survival scenario to appease us, they wouldn't undo that in a further fix.

[jtav]

I can fix it, but every additional bit of canon is an additional hurdle. And I have a pretty nice set up now. I fear any additional DLC would be malicious and mean-spirited. And if Miranda shows up, she'll be degraded further.

Basically, I want the writers to shut up.

[Skullheart]

Her survival means nothing. Her dead is meaningful that her alive scenario. Too many things to do just to make sure she sruvives, and she does nothing afther that.

[srjepsen]

I personally don't have a problem with the ending considering this: www.youtube.com/watch

[CrutchCricket]

They've already set the biggest hurdle via the RGB. They need to gtfo that sh!t. After that I don't really care what they do. Fixing Miranda would be lovely but it's a much smaller task to do myself if they can't be bothered.

[CrutchCricket]

srjepsen wrote...

I personally don't have a problem with the ending considering this: www.youtube.com/watch

No.

Indoctrination theory doesn't deny the ending it just mitigates it. And that's not good enough. Also some people (Ieldra) don't take too kindly to it round these parts.  Just saying, you may see some exploding.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 02 avril 2012 - 06:32 .

[Jafryn]

CrutchCricket wrote...

srjepsen wrote...

I personally don't have a problem with the ending considering this: www.youtube.com/watch

No.

Indoctrination theory doesn't deny the ending it just mitigates it. And that's not good enough. Also some people (Ieldra) don't take too kindly to it round these parts.  Just saying, you may see some exploding.

If BioWare just rolls with it and pretends that that was what they were planning all along, then they can give us a completely new ending. I don't think there's a way to fix the current one, it's broken beyond belief.

Modifié par Jafryn, 02 avril 2012 - 06:43 .

[srjepsen]

CrutchCricket wrote...

srjepsen wrote...

I personally don't have a problem with the ending considering this: www.youtube.com/watch

No.

Indoctrination theory doesn't deny the ending it just mitigates it. And that's not good enough. Also some people (Ieldra) don't take too kindly to it round these parts.  Just saying, you may see some exploding.

It denies the ending in the sense that it didn't really take place, just as the boy didn't really exist, throught the course of ME3, it was very apparent Shepard was becoming indoctrinated, Harbinger had set up a test for Shepard at the very end, and that's why if you choose the destroy option, the test is passed, thus the gasp for air, waking up from the dream...

[Ieldra]

srjepsen wrote...
I personally don't have a problem with the ending considering this: www.youtube.com/watch

I kindly (for now) request not to discuss this abomination on this thread. If you want to know why I hate it with a passion, ask me by PM or consult this thread and answer there, not here. I wish this thing would just go away. It's worse than the existing endings, adn that's saying something.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I can fix it, but every additional bit of canon is an additional hurdle. And I have a pretty nice set up now. I fear any additional DLC would be malicious and mean-spirited. And if Miranda shows up, she'll be degraded further.

Basically, I want the writers to shut up.

Given what they've done to the universe and the characters in it, that's not surprising. A shame, really. There's so much good stuff in the game. I want to know who wrote the Surkesh/Tuchanka and Rannoch scenarios. There's good writing and excellent scene design there.

[MrNose]

Ieldra2 wrote...

srjepsen wrote...
I personally don't have a problem with the ending considering this: www.youtube.com/watch

I kindly (for now) request not to discuss this abomination on this thread. If you want to know why I hate it with a passion, ask me by PM or consult this thread and answer there, not here. I wish this thing would just go away. It's worse than the existing endings, adn that's saying something.

I really enjoyed reading your take on things.  Seeing TIM at the Control station during the presentation of the options gave me pause, but I still felt it was far and away the best option for MyShep's personality.

Modifié par MrNose, 02 avril 2012 - 06:59 .

[keegdarv1]

Skullheart wrote...

Her survival means nothing. Her dead is meaningful that her alive scenario. Too many things to do just to make sure she sruvives, and she does nothing afther that.

what to many things do you need to do?

import a loyal Miranda and give her the data thats it
Shepard auto dialogs telling her about Kei Lang

it makes sense if unloyal she dies as some of other unloyal characters can also die Grunt and Zaeed I know for sure can die if unloyal, I would guess Jacob and Kasmui would be on the list of could die

ummm to be fair no character does anything after their missions, the most you get is maybe alittle talk with Jacob, Jack or Sarama the others nothing

Mordin is the character you truely need to jump through hops to keep alive, him living dates back to ME1

also if you dont import and are playing a "default" ME3 game Miranda Mordin and Legion the only ME2 to show up I'm pretty sure. she should die thier as you did nothing for her plus when you kill Kei Lang what are you doing to say to him "this is for ummmmm I dont know faliure at trying to kill me you son of a ****" and I think their reasoing is to add another reason to dislike Kei Lang why new players would care about Miranda I dont know though

ive said it before I'll say it again they didn't add her survival because of leaks thier was always a she could live.  you really think the got Yvonne Strahovsk back for alittle extra content in the four or five month time, and yet many of the same people that believe they got her back for that dont believe they could get her back for dlc is they wanted to wheres the logic thier? 

their is no proof they whated her dead at all yet thier proof they wanted her to live as well she can live, as her death is meaningful, so is the VS Shepard can have a great talk with Joker after, you see thier death hurts Liara, if you dont take the shot and Garrus is with you and does you see how that hurts him. Tali's death is meaningful as it hurts Joker and Garrus well and when I let her kill herself during Earth im 95% sure I heard Garrus yelling "for Tali" as a battle cry, and im sure we all know the impact behind Mordin and Legions deaths 

Sarama and Thane may be the only meaningless deaths in ME3 as t goes to squardmates, as gets nothing from anyone and Sarama only gets a Zaeed type comment from Garrus and Joker

[Ice Cold J]

Post removed... read the one above me.

But do you HAVE to import ME2 to keep her alive?

EDIT:

keegdarv1 wrote...

also if you dont import and are playing a "default" ME3 game Miranda Mordin and Legion the only ME2 to show up I'm pretty sure.

Jacob is alive. "Legion," the REAL Legion, that is, is not. It's a representation of him that follows you around the Rannoch misisons.

Modifié par Ice Cold J, 02 avril 2012 - 07:37 .

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I'd be more passionate if I wasn't worried they'd "fix" things by having Miranda die and dashing my hopes of Matt ever returning and my cool future. So no DLC for me, thanks.

I can't really sympathize with that point of view. For one thing, in head-cannon/fanfic type of perspective, one can always rewrite the endings anyway.

Modifié par flemm, 02 avril 2012 - 07:43 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
This is like politics. Being overly polite never gets you anything. You don't need to be rude, but you need to be passionate. Or do you think Bioware would have reacted if so many people hadn't said "I feel betrayed. I am so depressed I don't want to play any ME game anymore."

Yes, unfortunately, that is the dynamic. Which is why, in passing, it's disingenuous for Bioware to play the victim in light of how vociferous the complaining has been. That's not to say that I condone any personal attacks and such things, but the reality is, if the reaction hadn't been so virulent, probably no adjustments would have been contemplated.

Modifié par flemm, 02 avril 2012 - 07:40 .

[CrutchCricket]

srjepsen wrote...
It denies the ending in the sense that it didn't really take place, just as the boy didn't really exist, throught the course of ME3, it was very apparent Shepard was becoming indoctrinated, Harbinger had set up a test for Shepard at the very end, and that's why if you choose the destroy option, the test is passed, thus the gasp for air, waking up from the dream...

No it doesn't. Accepting one so called "choice" is as bad as accepting any of them. The whole thing must be purged. See my post for what a full denial might entail (added bonus: I don't actually have to use indoctrintion for my denial. I can simply attribute it to garden-variety hallucinations brought on by blood loss/shock). You can substitute what happens afterwards with whatever you see fit, but nothing short of destroying everything after Anderson dies is acceptable.

But anyway, derailing has gone on long enough, and we'll spare Ieldra the pain of talking about this here.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 02 avril 2012 - 07:47 .

[hot_heart]

I always felt it was a bit annoying that Miranda's situation didn't parallel Tali's in ME2. You know, sort out your own matters and then focus on the bigger picture.

Then again, that could come off as making her appear needy like Tali. Man, do I not like Tali...

[flemm]

hot_heart wrote...

I always felt it was a bit annoying that Miranda's situation didn't parallel Tali's in ME2. You know, sort out your own matters and then focus on the bigger picture.

Well, really, that's roughly how it should have worked. It helps that the personal stuff actually intersects with the big picture. So much so that better writing could have really improved the whole thing without any additional content.

But anyway, yeah, Miranda should join up for a while after Sanctuary.

Modifié par flemm, 02 avril 2012 - 08:11 .

[CrutchCricket]

See the thing that works for us is that Miranda errors (unlike the RGB) are errors of omission which can be fixed by additional content. There's no need to drastically rework anything. Now whether they'll actually provide these additions is another matter entirely.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 02 avril 2012 - 08:13 .

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

See the thing that works for us is that Miranda errors (unlike the RGB) are errors of omission which can be fixed by additional content. There's no need to drastically rework anything. Now whether they'll actually provide these additions is another matter entirely.

Yes, very true.

Modifié par flemm, 02 avril 2012 - 08:17 .

[jtav]

Yes, but it's become increasingly obvious that they had a plan for Miranda and they executed that plan methodically. I don't see them changing course too drastically, though we may get a bone like the e-mail.

And I'm now more or less okay with the endings, to the point that I think it would be more likely for clarification to make things much worse by removing gaps where we could plausibly insert hope without violating canon.

[Alessar1288]

Skullheart wrote...

Her survival means nothing. Her dead is meaningful that her alive scenario. Too many things to do just to make sure she sruvives, and she does nothing afther that.

Ash/Kaiden's survival on the citadel doesn't really mean anything either, therefore they must be destined to death too. And too many things to keep her alive? You have to warn her about Leng and give her supplies, while having her loyal, that isn't that much. Seriously I get people are annoyed by Miranda's role in ME 3, but just because a generic upload has her unloyal and dead, doesn't invalidate her living in loyal playthroughs. Pretty sure a lot of ME3 characters are dead if you don't load an ME 2 file, yet I don't hear cries about how they wanted them dead or no thanks to dlc for the character.

[jtav]

Miranda will die in all non-import games. That's about half of all games right there. That death scenario is quite elaborate, well-acted and animated. The survival dialogue on Sanctuary feels rushed and disjointed, like there should be more but isn't. And even within the romance, the death is where you get the love confession as well as physical tenderness lacking in the other version.

[flemm]

Alessar1288 wrote...
Ash/Kaiden's survival on the citadel doesn't really mean anything either, therefore they must be destined to death too. And too many things to keep her alive? You have to warn her about Leng and give her supplies, while having her loyal, that isn't that much. Seriously I get people are annoyed by Miranda's role in ME 3, but just because a generic upload has her unloyal and dead, doesn't invalidate her living in loyal playthroughs. Pretty sure a lot of ME3 characters are dead if you don't load an ME 2 file, yet I don't hear cries about how they wanted them dead or no thanks to dlc for the character.

Agreed, no need to go overboard. I find the way Miranda was used in this story to be reprehensible, but it's not impossible to fix/improve. Hell, it's already been somewhat improved along the way. Not enough, but bad writing/poor creative choices are not the same as vendetta/conspiracy/etc. lol.