Aller au contenu

Photo

"I'll always want you in my life." Miranda Lawson in Mass Effect 3


82210 réponses à ce sujet

#44851
CrutchCricket

CrutchCricket
  • Members
  • 7 750 messages

jtav wrote...

Yes, but it's become increasingly obvious that they had a plan for Miranda and they executed that plan methodically. I don't see them changing course too drastically, though we may get a bone like the e-mail.

And I'm now more or less okay with the endings, to the point that I think it would be more likely for clarification to make things much worse by removing gaps where we could plausibly insert hope without violating canon.

If by plan you mean "hurry up and write some **** so we can get out of here, Family Guy's on" then yes there was a plan. And if we have to subscribe to reality, then yes I don't hold out much hope for meaningful content. But it doesn't hurt to ask right?

Otherwise I accept there are some things I'm not meant to understand, and one of them seems to be how the hell can anyone like this bull**** RGB, or even "be ok with it". So I'll just leave it alone I guess.

The notion that Miranda was initially set to die but this was later patched but not terribly well, possibly as a result of fan complaints is a reasonable assumption. Anything more is undue pessimism.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 02 avril 2012 - 08:29 .


#44852
hot_heart

hot_heart
  • Members
  • 2 682 messages
'****-up before conspiracy'

(**** = another word for a cockerel/rooster)

Modifié par hot_heart, 02 avril 2012 - 08:31 .


#44853
Alessar1288

Alessar1288
  • Members
  • 72 messages

jtav wrote...

Miranda will die in all non-import games. That's about half of all games right there. That death scenario is quite elaborate, well-acted and animated. The survival dialogue on Sanctuary feels rushed and disjointed, like there should be more but isn't. And even within the romance, the death is where you get the love confession as well as physical tenderness lacking in the other version.


You mean you get more physical tenderness in a moment where she realizes that there is no rush to get her sister away from sanctuary in comparison to her living and just wanting to get Ori out of there? Seriously I get it her role is horrible in ME3 in comparison to ME2, but a lot of you are just grasping. I get a good bye scene if she is alive, oh man obviously this is what bioware wanted!

#44854
flemm

flemm
  • Members
  • 5 786 messages

jtav wrote...

Miranda will die in all non-import games. That's about half of all games right there.
That death scenario is quite elaborate, well-acted and animated. The survival dialogue on Sanctuary feels rushed and disjointed, like there should be more but isn't. And even within the romance, the death is where you get the love confession as well as physical tenderness lacking in the other version.


The bolded part is irrelevant since many characters are not even alive in non-import games.

As to the death scenario being well-acted, including tenderness and so on, that's good. Would we rather there was none?

Quite a few fans have even argued that it only really makes sense for Miranda to get that overtly emotional in an extreme situaton anyway (I don't necessarily agree, but that is one opinion).

Agreed 100% on the problem with the scenario where she survives. But the "they wanted her dead" thing is overkill. They wanted a lot of characters dead in this game, for one thing. For another, a big chunk of the design is devoted to her surviving, including Persuade options that do nothing otherwise, etc.

Modifié par flemm, 02 avril 2012 - 11:19 .


#44855
Alessar1288

Alessar1288
  • Members
  • 72 messages

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...

Miranda will die in all non-import games. That's about half of all games right there.
That death scenario is quite elaborate, well-acted and animated. The survival dialogue on Sanctuary feels rushed and disjointed, like there should be more but isn't. And even within the romance, the death is where you get the love confession as well as physical tenderness lacking in the other version.


The bolded part is irrelevant since many characters are not even alive in non-import games.

As to the death scenario being well-acted, including tenderness and so on, that's good. Would we rather there was none?

Quite a few fans have even argued that it only really makes sense for Miranda to get that overtly emotional in an extreme situaton anyway (I don't necessarily agree, but that is one opinion).

Agreed 100% on the problem with the scenario where she survives. But the "they wanted her dead" thing is overkill. They wanted a lot of characters dead in this game, for one thing. For another, a big chunk of the design is devoted to her surviving, include Persuade options that do nothing otherwise, etc.


I don't know I tend to agree with the overly emotional in an extreme situation. That's just me though. Yes her surviving is rushed, but then again you get more content. The presence or lack of content at that moment doesn't validate or invalidate whether she is supposed to live or not.

#44856
flemm

flemm
  • Members
  • 5 786 messages

Alessar1288 wrote...
I don't know I tend to agree with the overly emotional in an extreme situation. That's just me though.


Well, I'm not opposed to the idea. What I'm saying is: if the death were not emotional, we would be complaining about that.

And there is tenderness when she survives. I want more, obviously. And more content in that scenario in general. But it's better to just identify what the problem is without creating a giant pool of angst about everything.

Modifié par flemm, 02 avril 2012 - 08:42 .


#44857
Alessar1288

Alessar1288
  • Members
  • 72 messages

flemm wrote...

Alessar1288 wrote...
I don't know I tend to agree with the overly emotional in an extreme situation. That's just me though.


Well, I'm not opposed to the idea. What I'm saying is: if the death were not emotional, we would be complaining about that.

And there is tenderness when she survives. I want more, obviously. And more content in that scenario in general. But it's better to just identify what the problem is without creating a giant pool of angst about everything.


Agreed.

#44858
jtav

jtav
  • Members
  • 13 965 messages
I'm not saying she's unusual in having more attention and polish lavished on her death scenario. Mordin is another. I'm also not saying that this decision was driven by any particular dislike of the character. But if Leng can cut down the beautiful woman who has finally forsaken the evil Cerberus and reunited with her beloved sister, we'll you're awaken latent chivalry of a good portion of the player base. And they are going to be really emotionally invested next mission when they finally get to gut her murderer. The death was the primary scenario, the one that feels the most finished from a narrative and design standpoint. Survival was secondary.

#44859
Lawrence0294

Lawrence0294
  • Members
  • 2 826 messages

Td1984 wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...

pyro_technician wrote...

Am I the only one that headcannons that when Liara takes over Miranda's old cabin Shepard gets nervous because of what has happened in that cabin? Like she KNOWS that he and Miranda have done things in that cabin. Even when Shepard didn't romance Liara, it's like both Ashley and Liara both know that Shepard and Miranda have had relations in so many parts on the Normandy.... Or am I the only one who thinks like that? :P


Not so much Liara as Javik:

Shepard: How goes the tour of the ship?

Javik: I visited the engine room.

Shepard: I'm sure Adams was interested in your opinion on our propulsion technology.

Javik: You fail to understand I visited the engine room.

Shepard: I can explain!

Javik: There is no need Commander. If you excuse me I must go  wash my hands...thoroughly.

I admit, that was classic.

As far as Ashley and Liara knowing about Thomas & Miranda, I don't give a damn what they think about it. I'm unapologetic about it and regret nothing. After all, it's not like I cheated on either of them with her. I also have Sheps who romance each of them anyway and stay loyal (outside of the fling with Kelly to ensure her survival in ME3- Thomas was the only one of my 4 Sheps who haven't or won't do so and *that* does kind of bother me that I couldn't save her on one playthrough).

Whait, do you get this dialogue only if you romanced Miri? What other exclusive comments do you have?

#44860
flemm

flemm
  • Members
  • 5 786 messages

jtav wrote...

I'm not saying she's unusual in having more attention and polish lavished on her death scenario. Mordin is another. I'm also not saying that this decision was driven by any particular dislike of the character. But if Leng can cut down the beautiful woman who has finally forsaken the evil Cerberus and reunited with her beloved sister, we'll you're awaken latent chivalry of a good portion of the player base. And they are going to be really emotionally invested next mission when they finally get to gut her murderer. The death was the primary scenario, the one that feels the most finished from a narrative and design standpoint. Survival was secondary.



That part is not the giant pool of angst part. The giant pool of angst part is reading that story choice as some sort of absolute that defines how the character will be written forever and ever to the point of paranoia that additional content would be along the same lines.

It likely would not because the story structure would be different.

I don't like that the story was outlined this way in the first place, it was a mistake. But there are adjustments from the early drafts that make it more palatable than it otherwise would have been, and some late additions that are along the lines of what we would like to see. So, that's good.

I would like to see additional content build on that.

Modifié par flemm, 02 avril 2012 - 08:55 .


#44861
Skullheart

Skullheart
  • Members
  • 4 345 messages
@kratos

Not, that is just a fan banter from Doc. It's just that the writer wasted comedy material with Javik while he explores the Normandy. The only comment he has about her is that she is unusual, artificial. I liked more his comment from the leak "Human, female. Perfect in every regard."

#44862
jtav

jtav
  • Members
  • 13 965 messages
Oh, the paranoia? That's because I just don't trust the writers anymore. There's a mean-spirited streak to the series now, and it's become something of a pattern whenever BW returns to previously established characters. I don't want a Bastila or Aribeth redux.

#44863
CrutchCricket

CrutchCricket
  • Members
  • 7 750 messages

jtav wrote...

I'm not saying she's unusual in having more attention and polish lavished on her death scenario. Mordin is another. I'm also not saying that this decision was driven by any particular dislike of the character. But if Leng can cut down the beautiful woman who has finally forsaken the evil Cerberus and reunited with her beloved sister, we'll you're awaken latent chivalry of a good portion of the player base. And they are going to be really emotionally invested next mission when they finally get to gut her murderer. The death was the primary scenario, the one that feels the most finished from a narrative and design standpoint. Survival was secondary.

I still don't think that was a conscious decision. The death was meant to invoke drama sure but I seriously doubt they thought that much into it. We're on here discussing her to death day in and day out. And maybe we lose sight of the fact that not everything's about Miranda. That sounds outlandish but the point is straight up neglect is much more likely.

I wonder if people want to see intent just so they'll think Miranda has more meaning to the devs than she really does.

Oh and Thessia provides plenty of incentive to off Leng. Annoying ****** calls a timeout everytime he scrapes his knee and his cutscene power is totally unfounded. Yeah he could've offered to buy me cake and roses for the rest of the game and I still would've wanted to kill the bastard.

#44864
flemm

flemm
  • Members
  • 5 786 messages

jtav wrote...

Oh, the paranoia? That's because I just don't trust the writers anymore. There's a mean-spirited streak to the series now, and it's become something of a pattern whenever BW returns to previously established characters. I don't want a Bastila or Aribeth redux.


Well, I think that's a reasonable concern.

But bad writing happens. Quite a lot of it happened here. I mean look at the endings lol. I really doubt Mac Walters wanted to be famous for writing the Worst Ending Ever.

Good writing also happens. A little of it happened here, and I would like to see more of that.

#44865
Td1984

Td1984
  • Members
  • 1 328 messages

Skullheart wrote...

@kratos

Not, that is just a fan banter from Doc. It's just that the writer wasted comedy material with Javik while he explores the Normandy. The only comment he has about her is that she is unusual, artificial. I liked more his comment from the leak "Human, female. Perfect in every regard."

Part of it was actually said by Javik though. He does comment about Miranda (though not by name) and does say afterwards about needing to wash his hands.

#44866
pyro_technician

pyro_technician
  • Members
  • 244 messages

Td1984 wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

@kratos

Not, that is just a fan banter from Doc. It's just that the writer wasted comedy material with Javik while he explores the Normandy. The only comment he has about her is that she is unusual, artificial. I liked more his comment from the leak "Human, female. Perfect in every regard."

Part of it was actually said by Javik though. He does comment about Miranda (though not by name) and does say afterwards about needing to wash his hands.


Wait, what? I must have missed that part.

#44867
hot_heart

hot_heart
  • Members
  • 2 682 messages
Maybe this is a bit off-topic, but I noticed this piece (the first half anyway) during the romance 'culmination' scene and it really struck a chord (lolpun) with me. It is one of the most beautiful, evocative pieces of music I've ever heard. I know the second half features in 'I Was Lost Without You' but I don't think the sparse piano part does. I'm sure it all probably appears for most romances but I felt it suited the Miranda one perfectly (and it's paced perfectly with that bit of the scene).

Also, the only thing I really liked about the ending was the 'An End Once And For All' track. Although, I'm not a fan of the ending (because of that bit of the cutscene) and I always half-expect it to go into that last chord of The Beatles' 'A Day In The Life'. :P

#44868
o Ventus

o Ventus
  • Members
  • 17 275 messages

Alessar1288 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Miranda will die in all non-import games. That's about half of all games right there. That death scenario is quite elaborate, well-acted and animated. The survival dialogue on Sanctuary feels rushed and disjointed, like there should be more but isn't. And even within the romance, the death is where you get the love confession as well as physical tenderness lacking in the other version.


You mean you get more physical tenderness in a moment where she realizes that there is no rush to get her sister away from sanctuary in comparison to her living and just wanting to get Ori out of there? Seriously I get it her role is horrible in ME3 in comparison to ME2, but a lot of you are just grasping. I get a good bye scene if she is alive, oh man obviously this is what bioware wanted!


Not sure if I should insult the condescending tone of this post, or your intelligence...

#44869
o Ventus

o Ventus
  • Members
  • 17 275 messages

Td1984 wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

@kratos

Not, that is just a fan banter from Doc. It's just that the writer wasted comedy material with Javik while he explores the Normandy. The only comment he has about her is that she is unusual, artificial. I liked more his comment from the leak "Human, female. Perfect in every regard."

Part of it was actually said by Javik though. He does comment about Miranda (though not by name) and does say afterwards about needing to wash his hands.


The "wash my hands" bit was at the beginning of that dialogue. He does mention Miranda, but he never calls her perfect. To paraphrase...

"There was a human female here. Her genetic structure was... unnatural, as if artificially created."

That about sums up ALL of his dialogue about Miranda.

#44870
flemm

flemm
  • Members
  • 5 786 messages

o Ventus wrote...

Not sure if I should insult the condescending tone of this post, or your intelligence...


Not warranted. Come on. There was nothing out of line about Alessar's post.

#44871
o Ventus

o Ventus
  • Members
  • 17 275 messages

flemm wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Not sure if I should insult the condescending tone of this post, or your intelligence...


Not warranted. Come on. There was nothing out of line about Alessar's post.


Aside from the aforementioned condescending tone...

#44872
flemm

flemm
  • Members
  • 5 786 messages

o Ventus wrote...

Aside from the aforementioned condescending tone...


Look, I'm sure a lot of our posts can come across that way as well, it's the interwebz, that's just how it works.

#44873
jtav

jtav
  • Members
  • 13 965 messages
A teaser: (yes, I haven't forgotten this story)

[quote]The skeleton was as black as charred flesh. Wires poked out of the chest and eye sockets. The top part of the skull was completely missing. Matt looked down at it with poorly-concealed disgust. "I'm going to be stuck in that?"

“It’s only the frame. The quantum computer isn't even in yet. “

Matt’s lips thinned. Miranda shot him a sideways glance. She found herself looking at him often these days, and not out of anything as pedestrian as desire. He was a marvel. The muscles of his jaw appeared to tense, his chest appear to rise and fall at regular intervals, all without the muscles that would work by instinct in an organic body. What sort of computer had the power to regulate and replicate the thousands of involuntary functions of the human body? It may Miranda's head spin just thinking about it.

"I was just…I was hoping for something a bit more, er, human."

She smiled at him, placating. "You looked much worse the first time around. Wilson vomited, and I didn't sleep soundly for a week. And you came out all right. Synthetic skin is virtually indistinguishable from the genuine article except under a microscope. No one was able to tell Eva was a synthetic until after the shuttle crash. You’ll be outwardly indistinguishable from what you were before."

But Matt kept staring at the metal skeleton, his gaze managing somehow to be both distant and pained. Miranda’s heart sank. After the death of his parents, Matt had fought a long, grueling war of attrition with depression that had ended in stalemate. Time and therapy had seen him through the worst of it, but sometimes the ghosts still returned to haunt him. And Miranda was never quite a match for ghosts. No matter how many books she read or psychologists she consulted, her talents tended more towards manipulating a mark than helping a lover.

"EDI," he said softly. "I told her she was a person. And she was. Almost like having another little sister. But she wasn't human. She was a brand-new species. The only one of her kind. And I’ll be the only one of mine, as different from you as an asari is from a salarian.” He looked at her as if she was supposed to have the answer. "How am I supposed to deal with that?”

And perhaps she did have the answer. She was, after all, a construct in her own way, designed according to a template set down by another human being. Luddites and religious fundamentalists had called her an abomination, a perversion of the natural order of reproduction. Miranda Lawson looked human, felt human, but she wasn't and never would be anything other than a latter-day Frankenstein's monster. Henry had been more than happy to use their ignorance to convince her that she would never find a place in the world except as his legacy and tool. It had taken her years to break free of that particular mental prison. “You said EDI was a person. Well, so are you. You have friends. You have me. You have an entire galaxy of people who worship the ground you walk on. If you can't identify with your species, identify with the community you chose for yourself."

“And so I finally get the real reason you joined Cerberus." He smiled weakly. "I just wanted us to be the same species."

“Henry wanted a master race lording above all others. I chose to help them instead.” Her fingers traced the outline of his cheek. "Besides, I seem to recall someone once telling me that compassion and drive were the true marks of humanity."

His smile grew a little brighter. It was a start. "And sexual compatibility. Don't forget that."

Modifié par jtav, 02 avril 2012 - 11:22 .


#44874
Vertigo_1

Vertigo_1
  • Members
  • 5 934 messages
Nice teaser, jtav.  I like it :wizard:

#44875
Alessar1288

Alessar1288
  • Members
  • 72 messages

flemm wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Not sure if I should insult the condescending tone of this post, or your intelligence...


Not warranted. Come on. There was nothing out of line about Alessar's post.


See thats the thing I wasn't being condescending whatsoever. And this is the major reason why I hate coming here.Some of you get all verbal about certain things and then go into personal attacks. All I pointed out was what I saw as flawed reasoning, but yes please attack my intelligence. I don't get why I can't point out my opinion that the lack or presence of certain content doesn't mean that there is a preference towards something, Not everything somebody types is out to be condescending or a verbal attack.

Modifié par Alessar1288, 03 avril 2012 - 01:39 .