82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

o Ventus wrote...
Meer and Hale weren't contacted about the EC, I doubt Strahovski -- or any of the other VA's -- were asked to come back.

Mike Gamble said that was in the works. For Meer and Hale, anyway. Not for Strahovksi.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Would anyone else be happy if they just copied Miranda's epilogue slides?

If they used the Control version for the Synthesis, yes.

[jtav]

Either is fine with me. But I want that confident, brilliant woman spoiling for a challenge, with big ideas.

[o Ventus]

Miranda's epilogue bit from the fan-made generator is adorable.

Does it change depending on what ending you pick (I always choose destroy)?

Modifié par o Ventus, 07 avril 2012 - 08:22 .

[Predator_828]

For my first playthrough of ME3 I rekindled the relationship with Ashley overall I was dissapointed with the ME 3 romance story for her. For my next playthrough of ME 2 I am going to choose Miranda and then in ME3 choose her over Ashley.

Miranda is a much more capable and interesting character with a richer backstory.

[o Ventus]

Predator_828 wrote...

For my first playthrough of ME3 I rekindled the relationship with Ashley overall I was dissapointed with the ME 3 romance story for her. For my next playthrough of ME 2 I am going to choose Miranda and then in ME3 choose her over Ashley.

Miranda is a much more capable and interesting character with a richer backstory.

Agreed. Bioware really did write the characters better in ME2. Shame they didn't transition properly into ME3.

R.I.P. ME1-DA:O-ME2 era Bioware. 2006-2010.

Modifié par o Ventus, 07 avril 2012 - 08:24 .

[Attila 6]

I think the reason is that we can`t hear more of Cerberus or her resignation from Cerberus is because the same reason they not saying to Shepard "I love you", because its obvious. Remember what she says to Shepard in ME2: We need more people here with the right reasons. So the reasons and the goals turned out to be different at a end of ME2 see resignation scene.

[jtav]

o Ventus wrote...

Miranda's epilogue bit from the fan-made generator is adorable.

Does it change depending on what ending you pick (I always choose destroy)?

Choose Control and pick a high EMS.

[Attila 6]

Hi guys I`m very interested about this two major characters of ME. I like to know your opinions about their romances, romanced with Ashley in ME 1 or not, anyone rejected Miranda for Ashley or stick with Miranda and why? I`m waiting for your answers, thank you very much

[o Ventus]

Attila 6 wrote...

Hi guys I`m very interested about this two major characters of ME. I like to know your opinions about their romances, romanced with Ashley in ME 1 or not, anyone rejected Miranda for Ashley or stick with Miranda and why? I`m waiting for your answers, thank you very much

In my main playthrough, I romanced Ashley in ME1 and moved on to Miranda in ME2 (Staying loyal to Miranda in ME3). Primary reasons being Horizon in ME2 and Ashley's trust issues with Shepard in ME3. On Horizon, she calls you a traitor to your face (You've betrayed the Council, you've betrayed Ansderson... you've betrayed me) and says you could be working for the wrong side. The "betrayal" line sounds like a breakup, so I will treat is as such. The "Cerberus could be working with the Collectors" is just pants-on-head retarded.

Her trust issues in ME3 also grate on me. Despite being incarcerated on EArth for 6 months with no outside contact with any of my old associates, Ashley still has the nerve to say "Well, you could still be influenced by them..." (Paraphrased) on Mars. Even James reaffirms that Shepard has had ZERO contact with anyone, yet Ashley still pushes the issue. The Citadel coup doesn't help anything either.

I always stick with Miranda, for a number of reasons. I think she's far more interesting than Ashley. In ME1, Ashley's personal side was more or less focused on the "Williams Curse". Miranda's personal side is focused around her tyrannical, über-controlling father and Miranda's artificial creation, stemming numerous insecurities. Over the course of the ME2 romance, Shepard can dispel these insecurities and boost her self esteem, eventually making her feel better about herself. Miranda is (imo) much more interesting because of her duality. On the outside, she's a cold, professional agent focused on the mission. To the people she knows personally, she's kind, loving, loyal, and fiercely protective. Oriana and Shepard are prime examples of this. 

She's also not afraid to get her hands dirty and make hard decisions (She shot Wilson in the throat right in front of Shepard and Jacob, and wanted to leave the Normandy's rew to keep building the team), but she has her limits. She approves of Cerberus experimenting on the thorian creepers, husks, and rachni, but Cerberus' experiments at Sanctuary are an abomination in her eyes. Her approval of destroying the Collector Base also reinforces this.

She's also (Entirely my opinion) much more beautiful than Ashley, being based on Yvonne Strahovski.

There is a laundry list of reasons, but I don't want to create an even alrger wall of text, so I condensed it.

Modifié par o Ventus, 07 avril 2012 - 08:42 .

[flemm]

Attila 6 wrote...

I think the reason is that we can`t hear more of Cerberus or her resignation from Cerberus is because the same reason they not saying to Shepard "I love you", because its obvious. Remember what she says to Shepard in ME2: We need more people here with the right reasons. So the reasons and the goals turned out to be different at a end of ME2 see resignation scene.

That's a point worth considering, but it has its limitations (even leaving aside the fact that she doesn't resign in all games).

The limitation is that Miranda was too deeply involved in the organisation for her character arc to not involve some type of development of the Cerberus connection in ME3. She believed in the organisation's goals as she perceived them, and devoted much of her life's work to advancing those goals. Now, under TIM's leadership, the organisation has become a perversion of itself. She is a principled individual with a conscience and a sense of responsability.

Just to give an example: Miranda in ME2 didn't approve even of experimenting on Rachni once they were discovered to be sentient; now, with her father's help no less, TIM has Cerberus systematically indoctrinating and experimenting on human beings. There's no way Miranda could be indifferent to this.

Thus, for her character to remain intact, she must:

1) Actively oppose Cerberus, and not just incidentally or for as long as Orianna is in danger.
2) Seek to rally those elements of Cerberus that do not approve of TIM's new, extreme tactics, and never did. (There are quite a few of these elements around.)
3) Seek to reform/redeem the organisation.
4) Found a new organisation or a splinter organisation more in line with her own ideals.

Or some combination or variation of those things. But fundamentally, ignoring the Cerberus connection, or addressing it only in a way that is incidental to her personal issues, is not a credible option.

Or, to put it another way, even if we assume her reason for leaving goes without saying (which I don't think it really does or can), we are left with the need to develop the connection further.

Modifié par flemm, 07 avril 2012 - 08:52 .

[o Ventus]

jtav wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Miranda's epilogue bit from the fan-made generator is adorable.

Does it change depending on what ending you pick (I always choose destroy)?

Choose Control and pick a high EMS.

I fail to see how reconstructing him again is possible.

He was completely disintegrated by the control panel. At least with Lazarus he still had some "Meat and tubes" remaining to inject the blue liquid into.

[enayasoul]

o Ventus wrote...

Attila 6 wrote...

Hi guys I`m very interested about this two major characters of ME. I like to know your opinions about their romances, romanced with Ashley in ME 1 or not, anyone rejected Miranda for Ashley or stick with Miranda and why? I`m waiting for your answers, thank you very much

In my main playthrough, I romanced Ashley in ME1 and moved on to Miranda in ME2 (Staying loyal to Miranda in ME3). Primary reasons being Horizon in ME2 and Ashley's trust issues with Shepard in ME3. On Horizon, she calls you a traitor to your face (You've betrayed the Council, you've betrayed Ansderson... you've betrayed me) and says you could be working for the wrong side. The "betrayal" line sounds like a breakup, so I will treat is as such. The "Cerberus could be working with the Collectors" is just pants-on-head retarded.

Her trust issues in ME3 also grate on me. Despite being incarcerated on EArth for 6 months with no outside contact with any of my old associates, Ashley still has the nerve to say "Well, you could still be influenced by them..." (Paraphrased) on Mars. Even James reaffirms that Shepard has had ZERO contact with anyone, yet Ashley still pushes the issue. The Citadel coup doesn't help anything either.

I always stick with Miranda, for a number of reasons. I think she's far more interesting than Ashley. In ME1, Ashley's personal side was more or less focused on the "Williams Curse". Miranda's personal side is focused around her tyrannical, über-controlling father and Miranda's artificial creation, stemming numerous insecurities. Over the course of the ME2 romance, Shepard can dispel these insecurities and boost her self esteem, eventually making her feel better about herself. Miranda is (imo) much more interesting because of her duality. On the outside, she's a cold, professional agent focused on the mission. To the people she knows personally, she's kind, loving, loyal, and fiercely protective. Oriana and Shepard are prime examples of this. 

She's also not afraid to get her hands dirty and make hard decisions (She shot Wilson in the throat right in front of Shepard and Jacob, and wanted to leave the Normandy's rew to keep building the team), but she has her limits. She approves of Cerberus experimenting on the thorian creepers, husks, and rachni, but Cerberus' experiments at Sanctuary are an abomination in her eyes. Her approval of destroying the Collector Base also reinforces this.

She's also (Entirely my opinion) much more beautiful than Ashley, being based on Yvonne Strahovski.

There is a laundry list of reasons, but I don't want to create an even alrger wall of text, so I condensed it.

You pretty much said what I would have said about Miranda and Ashley. 100% agree.  Horizon played a huge role in why my maleShep felt that it was the end of the relationship.  Ashley broke up with him.  Who wants to be with someone who doesn't trust you?  Ashley's constant "trust issues" were also the reason Shepard stayed with Miranda.  Miranda was much more trusting and loyal to Shepard.   Miranda is a leader and well, Ashley seems to want to follow... (especially Shepard on the Normandy vs having her own command with Hackett.)

I'm wondering for my next play through(whenever I feel the urge to play it. Have only done one.) sending Ashley off with Hackett, maybe the hammer team would be better prepared?  I don't know.  Maybe they still all freaking die by the reapers even with 8500 EMS 100% effectiveness with Multiplayer.

It didn't seem to matter with the scores it seems. Maybe there's a cut off point where its the same with anything above that mark.

Modifié par enayasoul, 07 avril 2012 - 09:03 .

[Attila 6]

thank you o Ventus, I feel almost the same: I`m not saying that Ashley not have any positive traits but as you said Miranda has a duality and Ithink Ashley outside the battlefield still a soldier and I never forget the hospital scene: Why dont you contacted me? answer:Anderson assisted it was complicated. I think you and I can say to this:bull**** because calling Shepard for a traitor was not complicated. See Miranda:I was tempted to break in, sorry for the NavPoint,I regreted the control chip,

[hot_heart]

"Ashley, I only used you for the Paramour achievement. They...they gave me a medal."

Modifié par hot_heart, 07 avril 2012 - 09:08 .

[Attila 6]

Thank you for your opinion flemm. I think you are right in some points but I think the main reason was all along her father in the hole Cerberus thing. This hole I belive in Cerberus goals came later. Remember what she says at Sanctuary: It`s finally over for both of us. Why didn`t she killed her father long ago? These hole Cerberus loyalty was based on fear (fear from her father)

[flemm]

Attila 6 wrote...

Thank you for your opinion flemm. I think you are right in some points but I think the main reason was all along her father in the hole Cerberus thing. This hole I belive in Cerberus goals came later. Remember what she says at Sanctuary: It`s finally over for both of us. Why didn`t she killed her father long ago? These hole Cerberus loyalty was based on fear (fear from her father)

Well, I don't think the dialogue in ME2 really supports that. Fleeing from her father played a role in her joining the organisation, as a very young woman, but there are clearly other reasons why she believes in her work as an adult.

And the thing is, even if you interpret it that way, the fact remains that she continues to be responsable for her work there.

I think, no matter how you slice it, it makes no sense that, having dealt with her father, she wouldn't want/need to deal with Cerberus itself, and the TIM.

Modifié par flemm, 07 avril 2012 - 09:21 .

[jtav]

I just remembered another cliche that pops up with Miranda. Heroine embarks on dangerous task. Heroine refuses hero's assistance because she has to do it herself. Heroine gets in trouble and causes a lot of grief.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I just remembered another cliche that pops up with Miranda. Heroine embarks on dangerous task. Heroine refuses hero's assistance because she has to do it herself. Heroine gets in trouble and causes a lot of grief.

She doesn't really cause any grief that I can think of. I mean, whatever, the whole thing is so cliché-ridden I can hardly keep track. The rest of it fits, though.

Modifié par flemm, 07 avril 2012 - 09:25 .

[jtav]

Well, imagine she'd taken Shep up on the offer. She'd have had backup against Leng and Sanctuary would have been closed down sooner.

[MrNose]

jtav wrote...

I just remembered another cliche that pops up with Miranda. Heroine embarks on dangerous task. Heroine refuses hero's assistance because she has to do it herself. Heroine gets in trouble and causes a lot of grief.

I think there's a danger that we're going from "bad cliches" to just "common plot devices."  Lots of plots have characters doing something by themselves.  Often its considered heroic.  

Miranda going off by herself makes perfect sense to me.  She's a self-reliant individual who feels that she owes what she is to other people.  Rescuing Oriana is a moment for her to step out of other people's shadow and take care of a deeply personal mission by herself.  It may be reckless, but ultimately she doesn't cause any trouble over her decision, excepting her own death in some playthroughs.  

[Vertigo_1]

jtav wrote...

Well, imagine she'd taken Shep up on the offer. She'd have had backup against Leng and Sanctuary would have been closed down sooner.

That would have been a better mission IMO

You could hear her thoughts on Cerberus/TIM, the Reapers, and a real confrontation speech with Henry

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Well, imagine she'd taken Shep up on the offer. She'd have had backup against Leng and Sanctuary would have been closed down sooner.

For #2... Maybe? I don't know. Anyway it gets shut down, so at worst it's slightly sub-optimal. I don't think there's any way to time these things with precision, so I think it's just as plausible to imagine that Miranda gets there slightly sooner on her own than she would have with Shepard. Thus the only "trouble" she can be said to cause is the risk to her own well-being.

For #1... putting a tracker on Leng is really best case outcome, since it leads to TIM.

Overall it's not really bad that Miranda deals with this on her own. Yes, it's way of keeping Miranda away from the action, but not necessarily a horrible one. Could have even been very good with better writing. The main issue is that the story stops there, for all intents and purposes, and that the confrontation with the father is so... empty and leads nowhere.

Vertigo_1 wrote...
That would have been a better mission IMO

You could hear her thoughts on Cerberus/TIM, the Reapers, and a real confrontation speech with Henry

That would have been a big advantage, yeah. Basically the mission as is just doesn't work as the whole substance of Miranda's role. It prevents too many important things from being addressed.

Alongside additional content of some kind, it could have been ok.

Modifié par flemm, 07 avril 2012 - 09:50 .

[Attila 6]

Anyone thought about why is she says suddenly "Goodbye" at the end, and when Shepard break up with her she crys and leaves.

[flemm]

Attila 6 wrote...
 Why didn`t she killed her father long ago?

On this specific question: it's unclear.

Another poster, Elyvern, made that point a while ago. Given the characterisation (or lack thereof) of Miranda's father in ME3, it seems likely that Miranda could have killed him at any time.

For example, she infiltrates this Cerberus facility while it is being attacked by Reapers, and later can kill her father with ease. All of this makes it very hard to imagine why "running from her father" would have been such a powerful motivator in the first place.

Arguably, in terms of damage to the character, this is the worst thing about the Miranda-related writing in ME3. Because it suggests that she could really have dealt with him at any time almost effortlessly.

Which... doesn't make sense and is fundamentally incoherent.

Or, to put it another way:

Based on what we see in the game, it seems like her father needs Cerberus to protect him from her more than she ever needed Cerberus to protect herself from him.

Modifié par flemm, 07 avril 2012 - 10:21 .